Theory on the apparition which supposedly took place at knock on 21st August 1879.

31-12-2007 07:21AM #1

I believe that the people who claim to have seen an apparition at knock on 21st August 1879 were under the influence of psilocybin which is a hallucinogen more commonly known magic mushrooms. There are several reasons for this assumption.
(1) The date 21st August is within the time frame when these mushrooms grow throughout Ireland.
(2) It is highly probable that food was scarce in the area at the time. Potatoe blight could have been a problem which is also a fungus and would have made the locals seek out any food available, making them eat the mushrooms off the ground.
(3) If there was potatoe blight in the area at the time it would mean that weather conditions were favorable for other types of fungus to grow including the psilocybe.
(4) I have read reports that it was raining on the day of the apparition sighting. These mushrooms grow particularly well after rain in the morning.
(5) The locals were probably praying for a miracle to help them in their times of need and got their ideas for the apparition they seen in their minds from the local church surroundings.
Does anyone out there have any more information or ideas which they would like to share which would back up my theory or any other comments they would like to make?

Jeapy · 01-01-2008 07:27PM

Wow, that's pretty contraversial! I don't know much about shrooms in the area at the time so I wont even contribute!

dodgyme · 09-01-2008 05:06PM

That theory has been mentioned before but usually as a joke by people looking for magic mushies. And it is not a great place for them (I hear).
although the rain woulda helped

Shiminay · 09-01-2008 05:32PM

Very interesting idea, but a group of people having the same hallucination? Certainly never happened to me when I had shrooms!

09-01-2008 06:48PM

From what I've read I think that the shroom grows only when conditions are favourable moreso than relying on the time of year but from what I have seen down through the years they can grow in a certain area really well for a few years and suddenly cease and vice versa so it may be possible that these last few decades around knock arent as favourable as they used to be.

09-01-2008 07:02PM

Kharn wrote: »

Very interesting idea, but a group of people having the same hallucination? Certainly never happened to me when I had shrooms!

Good point. I have read that the apparition occurred on the south facing gable of knock parish church so maybe a puddle of water was reflecting light in a certain way on the wall. The first person to see it would point it out to the others and they would probably start to believe it. I remember once looking into the palm of my hand while on shrooms and seeing my whole life in the lines so anythings possible i guess.

Shiminay · 09-01-2008 07:22PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The first person to see it would point it out to the others and they would probably start to believe it.

This isn't beyond the realm of possibility actually.

Could similar circumstances be attributed to other Marion apparitions (Lourdes, etc) I wonder?

And finally, I wouldn't rule out a genuine apparation - I've seen some crazy enough stuff in my on life to make anything possible

dodgyme · 10-01-2008 11:22AM

there was also a theory mentioned years ago about it being a possibility of a trick of light, like a modern day illusion. There was a program or newspaper article on it somewhere a few years back. I suppose telling people these days that it coulda been a miracle is not enough.

I know that from a sociologist point of view they always say that the same social conditions existed when such incidents take place. i.e poverty, looming famine, need of hope etc etc, however a religious person would say that is the condition for a miracle being needed also.

i think knock is unique in one sense that most of the people who witnessed the apparition were adults. I wonder if it would be possible to see if the accounts from them still existed. They probably would be in irish and the translation here would be important.

Shiminay · 10-01-2008 11:40AM

www.knock-shrine.ie wrote:

KNOCK SHRINE

On the wet Thursday evening of the 21st August, 1879, at about the hour of 8 o'clock, Our Lady, St. Joseph, and St. John the Evangelist appeared in a blaze of Heavenly light at the south gable of the Church of St. John the Baptist. Behind them and a little to the left of St. John was a plain altar. On the altar was a cross and a lamb with adoring angels. The Apparition was seen by fifteen people whose ages ranged from six years to seventy-five and included men, women, teenagers and children.

The poor humble witnesses distinctly beheld the Blessed Virgin Mary clothed in white robes with a brilliant crown on her head. Over the forehead where the crown fitted the brow, she wore a beautiful full-bloom golden rose. She was in an attitude of prayer with her eyes and hands raised towards Heaven. St. Joseph stood on Our Lady's right. He was turned towards her in an attitude of respect. His robes were also white. St. John was on Our Lady's left. He was dressed in white vestments and resembled a bishop, with a small mitre. He appeared to be preaching and he held an open book in his left hand.

The witnesses watched the Apparition in pouring rain for two hours, reciting the Rosary. Although the witnesses standing before the gable were drenched, no rain fell in the direction of the gable. They felt the ground carefully with their hands and it was perfectly dry as was the gable itself.

There are witness accounts here on that site. Dodgyme's point about miracles not being enough for people any more is a valid one I suppose - but p'raps it's the trade off between a world that's learning and a world that's yearning for something more.

10-01-2008 08:49PM

found more info here:

http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/knock.htm

DublinWriter · 10-01-2008 08:56PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Does anyone out there have any more information or ideas which they would like to share which would back up my theory or any other comments they would like to make?

Yes. I heard a story a number of years ago that the apparition appeared on the gable end of a block of artisan cottages and was described by one observer as being very 'flat in nature'.

Sound familiar? That's because it potentially was an early 'magic lantern' projection by some trickster.

I've tried to hunt down this particular account of the apparitions without much success, but I'm sure this account must ring a bell with someone?

10-01-2008 10:02PM

And here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knock_Shrine

10-01-2008 10:13PM

This very informative page on wikipedia talks of a magic lantern and even of a policeman who may have had something to do with it. It would make sense that the people around knock in 1879 would be pretty good candidates for playing tricks on especially when they would have never experienced projectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knock_Shrine

jmayo · 14-01-2008 10:15PM

Deleted User wrote: »

This very informative page on wikipedia talks of a magic lantern and even of a policeman who may have had something to do with it. It would make sense that the people around knock in 1879 would be pretty good candidates for playing tricks on especially when they would have never experienced projectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knock_Shrine

Cpt Diehard you wouldn't be related to that Cpt Boycott by any chance?
Remember what happened to him after he took on the folks of Mayo ;-)
It was a miracle pure and simple.
Now does anyone fancy a statue, or some pictures of the church gable wall ?

15-01-2008 04:18AM

jmayo wrote: »

Cpt Diehard you wouldn't be related to that Cpt Boycott by any chance?
Remember what happened to him after he took on the folks of Mayo ;-)
It was a miracle pure and simple.
Now does anyone fancy a statue, or some pictures of the church gable wall ?

I've heard of Boycott but I'm no relation. Are you making money out of this? Shame on you,

galvianlord · 31-01-2008 09:33PM

IT'S POTATO!!!!

Someone's havin a Dan Quayle moment!

RiverWilde · 10-03-2008 10:21AM

I don't know; the idea of some accidental stoners finding a miracle is sort of comforting.

Riv

artieanna · 10-03-2008 09:50PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I've heard of Boycott but I'm no relation. Are you making money out of this? Shame on you,

If he is making a few quid sur who could blame him....They say there could be hard times ahead:D:D

Theory on the apparition which supposedly took place at knock on 21st August 1879.

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