eBay alt accounts for bumping your own prices...

Wertz · 03-01-2008 05:20PM #1

Quick question regarding a seller who I suspect is using an alternate account to drive up the price of their item (item of men's jewellery). I only copped it on after an item I was watching came up as a relist less than a day later...being interested in the item, I added it to my watch list and lo and behold, the first round of bids pops up from the same user who won the item first time round (low feedback buyer, with no recent account activity).
Now it's not huge money and I can sort of half understand someone not wanting to let an item go for a low value, but I assume this activity is against policy...
Would I be petty to report it? Or should I just contact the seller? Or just refuse to bid on the item?
Anyone else ever seen this or been duped by such a practice?

A Dub in Glasgo · 03-01-2008 06:50PM

You would not be petty to report it

http://pages.ebay.ie/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html

If the seller does not get what you would like, he should start the auction at the price he would like or put a reserve on it.

KTRIC · 03-01-2008 06:54PM

Believe it or not this is a common enough practice. I've done it myself in the past to the tune of hundreds.

I haven't used ebay in a while though, its just not the same as it was when it started. Don't fool yourself into thinking you are getting a bargain and there's so many scams going on its incredible.

Wertz · 03-01-2008 07:14PM

Still in two minds....the sum involved is sub £30 and the seller is private. Probably thinks he's a right del boy.
I'd not be surprised that it's common enough, just never personally witnessed such a blatant instance of it.
I have to disagree with KTRIC on the eBay bargain front....granted you have to do a lot more digging and maths but there are still genuine sellers and bargains out there. Nothing is as good as it used to be on the web anyhow, at least from earlier user's perspectives...

A Dub in Glasgo · 03-01-2008 07:16PM

PM me his username and I will report him

Wertz · 03-01-2008 07:28PM

Ah now I'm old enough to fight my own battles

Gonna drop the seller a mail and see how he's going to try and explain it away...then I'll report him. I had an interest in the item (if the price was right) but I refuse to be duped by cackhandedness

football man · 03-01-2008 09:39PM

report the member to eBay using the contact us link via the help pages on the top right corner of the page.
If it is confirmed the two account will be suspended and if done again he will be kicked off ebay for good.
It is the one thing ebay takes very strong stance on and investigate all reports of this.

football man · 03-01-2008 09:45PM

wertz,
dont email him yourself if you have not bought something from him. it may get your account into more trouble than it is worth. just report him to ebay.

also it is called shill bidding and is very hard to get away with on a regular basis with the new systems that ebay have to find out if it is been done.

Passenger · 03-01-2008 10:44PM

How do you know for sure that it's the seller with the alternate account and not "a friend" of theirs?

Wertz · 04-01-2008 12:50AM

Passenger wrote: »

How do you know for sure that it's the seller with the alternate account and not "a friend" of theirs?

I don't, but either way it's underhand. I mailed the seller asking why he'd relisted, he just said the last winning bidder had said he didn't want it....odd since he was the second person to bid on the relist driving it close to the closing amount in the previous auction. Guys a muppet and has been reported.

football man you obviously work or have worked for eBay CS at some point...I had no intention of threatening the other member or in any other way breaching the EULA, just don't want to shop the guy if it's an innocent mistake. It's not so I'll leave it in their hands...

A Dub in Glasgo · 04-01-2008 07:21AM

Passenger wrote: »

How do you know for sure that it's the seller with the alternate account and not "a friend" of theirs?

It is still shill bidding

Wertz · 04-01-2008 10:41AM

Listing is gone in case anyone is interested. Fairly quick to act...I wish they'd take postal overcharging as seriously...

A Dub in Glasgo · 04-01-2008 10:47AM

Did ebay pull it or did the seller cancel?

yaynay · 04-01-2008 10:53AM

If it wasn't reported by the buyer eBay have detection models which identify this activity through IP/VID etc. and would have pulled the listing and warned the seller. If he does it again, chances are they'll issue a 12 month suspension.

rubadub · 04-01-2008 11:25AM

I have no problem with shill bidding, really only effects people who do not know how to use ebay properly, i.e. not putting their real max bid in. To me shilling is just a cheaper way to set a reserve price (ebay charge for setting a reserve). I snipe most of my auctions, so I would never get upset at shilling.

Some idiots get caught up in auctions, I have seen a few put in bids and winning auctions at higher prices than the buyitnow prices.

yaynay · 04-01-2008 11:28AM

rubadub wrote: »

I have no problem with shill bidding, really only effects people who do not know how to use ebay properly, i.e. not putting their real max bid in. To me shilling is just a cheaper way to set a reserve price (ebay charge for setting a reserve). I snipe most of my auctions, so I would never get upset at shilling.

Some idiots get caught up in auctions, I have seen a few put in bids and winning auctions at higher prices than the buyitnow prices.

... that's because PEOPLE ARE STUPID (well some at least)... IMO 'buy it now' is better, as I can't be arsed bidding...

Wertz · 04-01-2008 11:42AM

Well I got the cookie cutter mail from their CS and the listing is showing as "Item no longer available" so I have to assume they pulled it not the seller.
I'd have little problem with someone shilling within reason, reserve prices tend to put buyers off and as rubadub says, eBay charge for the privilege...but wasting people's time by outbidding genuine bidders (not me BTW, I missed the closing bids first time round but was going to bid this time) on a used item that was only falling short of the original RRP by about 30%, relisting 36 hrs later and then to start outbidding people again?

Something is only worth what people are willing to pay; if you don't like that concept then sell at a BIN price and stick a quid onto the shipping cost to cover the eBay fee.

rubadub · 04-01-2008 11:44AM

yaynay wrote: »

... that's because PEOPLE ARE STUPID (well some at least)... IMO 'buy it now' is better, as I can't be arsed bidding...

Some are stupid, some are ignorant. Ignorant people get upset at snipers, if they get sniped and think "I would have paid that extra €1" then they are ignorant about how to use ebay, you enter your max bid. If you max bid is €1,001, then enter that, do not enter 1,000 if you will get pissed off if you are outbid by 1,001.

I can sort of half understand someone not wanting to let an item go for a low value

Thats what reserve pricing is for. I reckon ebay have rules against it since they loose out on money. To the buyer there is no real difference between buying from a seller who shills, or a seller who sets a reserve. The only real loser is ebay, missing out on reserve price fees.

yoyo · 04-01-2008 11:46AM

yaynay wrote: »

... that's because PEOPLE ARE STUPID (well some at least)... IMO 'buy it now' is better, as I can't be arsed bidding...

+1, I only use buy it now, and tbh, I couldnt be bothered bidding as I think this happens in most listed items...

Nick

rubadub · 04-01-2008 11:55AM

yoyo wrote: »

+1, I only use buy it now, and tbh, I couldnt be bothered bidding as I think this happens in most listed items...

Nick

You should get sniping, easily the best way to buy stuff in auctions, the only reason I can see to bid in a proper auction before the final 10 seconds is so it cannot be pulled early due to no bids. Put a low bid in to get your foot in the door, then set up your snipe.

www.snipe.pl

Wertz · 04-01-2008 11:57AM

If you think you are being shilled in a listing it's easy to check the bidding list, look out for n00bs or low feedback users, check their feedback and backtrack to previous items from the same seller looking out for the same user IDs. The one exception to that is private listings.

Couldn't be bothered bidding? That's half the fun!
I don't like being sniped but I'd have less of a problem with it if someone's doing it from their keyboard...sniping programs and services piss me off somewhat.
As for entering your max bid early, that too is open to abuse from fake bidders....pushing up a price incrementally behind your maximum bid means you'll end up paying that max amount or close to it.
I tend to just put my maximum amount in in the closing seconds, if it's a winner it's a winner, if not, someone else will be selling it next week...

rubadub · 04-01-2008 12:31PM

Wertz wrote: »

I don't like being sniped but I'd have less of a problem with it if someone's doing it from their keyboard...sniping programs and services piss me off somewhat.

I tend to just put my maximum amount in in the closing seconds,

You snipe yourself so what problem have you with sniping programs? There is no way to tell how you were sniped, manual or automatic.

Sniping software does more than just bid in the last few seconds. You can set up logical rules. i.e. if it was xmas day few people may be online. You could have bids set up for 20 different memory cards, then if you win one of them all the others are cancelled. Also if you do not win the first 10 your max bid can be upped on the others. Some have very good functions.

Wertz wrote: »

As for entering your max bid early, that too is open to abuse from fake bidders....pushing up a price incrementally behind your maximum bid means you'll end up paying that max amount or close to it.

The other thing is that the person can increase the bids by €1 until your max is exposed. Then they can simply cancel the last bid!, now you are pushed up to the max.

All the more reason to snipe. Anybody who was upset at being sniped simply did not put in their true max bid, end of story, it is in ebays own guides that you should enter the max.

A Dub in Glasgo · 04-01-2008 12:45PM

I snipe all the time, the only way to play ebay. I sometimes sit there til the end, other times I will use software.

I would never put my max in early as that just invites the shillers and the nibblers

Wertz · 04-01-2008 01:05PM

In fairness I don't know if it's man or machine sniping me...I just have a problem trusting some random server someplace with my eBay ID and pword (assuming that sniping services still work like this) so if someone wins an auction by AFK bidding I see it as cheating since I'm at the keys and they're not (again I can't tell)...harks back to my MMO days maybe, people using macros and AFK but gaining from it.
Hypocritical but there you are...

My problem with sniping services is that I think it's possibly a way for scammers to get into your account and I value my account too much to divulge the info. Maybe they work on SSL systems or soemthing? I don't know. How do sniping sites make money? What's in it for them (apart from the usual ad services)? That's why I'm wary of them.

rubadub · 04-01-2008 04:22PM

Wertz wrote: »

if someone wins an auction by AFK bidding I see it as cheating

All I see is that the person willing to pay the highest price got to buy it, no cheating, it is the way the auctions are supposed to work. I can understand where you are coming from though, you mentioned bidding being "fun" so some do see it as a sort of game, if I can cheat in the game I will, and I have no doubt sniping has saved me a fortune and I consider it totally above board. If you are manually sniping you usually go in at 10-15 seconds incase you get a dodgy connection, while snipe software will go for 6 seconds as default (but is usually adjustable), this is why I dislike manual sniping, I have lost out due to breaks in connection.

So if you manually snipe €100 and the software comes in after at €100 you win. If you are sniping you run the risk of this, manual or not. But if you are sniping you probably know how ebay works, and so you would have entered your TRUE maximum bid, in which case if you bid €100 in 10 seconds and get sniped at €101 in 6 seconds, you have no reason to complain- your max was €100, if you were willing to pay 101 or 102 you would have entered it.

Wertz wrote: »

I just have a problem trusting some random server someplace with my eBay ID and pword (assuming that sniping services still work like this)

My problem with sniping services is that I think it's possibly a way for scammers to get into your account and I value my account too much to divulge the info. Maybe they work on SSL systems or soemthing? I don't know. How do sniping sites make money? What's in it for them (apart from the usual ad services)? That's why I'm wary of them.

I was worried too at first. You do give them your ebay ID and password, and I presume people working there can see both. Doesnt bother me, what can they actually do with those when you think about it? All they can really do is place bids on items, or post up items for sale. If they bought something you did not want you report them, you do not pay. If they sell on your behalf you again report them.

They cant do much else, it is not like you are giving them you paypal info. I would be far more afraid about giving out my C/C details online, and do that all the time.

The snipe site I use give a few freebies and then a charge on each win after that, some charge a % of buy price.

Wertz · 04-01-2008 05:54PM

Ta for that, maybe I'll look into it more or sign up a new account for such purposes.
Fair enough there's not much they can do with my details, but in the event that I used eBay less or was offline for a while, I'd worry about dodgy sh*t being sold on the back of my feedback rating and long membership, as I've seen happen to other accounts in the past...

Vikings · 04-01-2008 06:04PM

rubadub wrote: »

I was worried too at first. You do give them your ebay ID and password, and I presume people working there can see both. Doesnt bother me, what can they actually do with those when you think about it? All they can really do is place bids on items, or post up items for sale. If they bought something you did not want you report them, you do not pay. If they sell on your behalf you again report them.

They cant do much else, it is not like you are giving them you paypal info. I would be far more afraid about giving out my C/C details online, and do that all the time.

The snipe site I use give a few freebies and then a charge on each win after that, some charge a % of buy price.

Just to come in on the other side of this. There are a lot of people who get scammed out of their money by exactly this, when someone sells something on your account - its up to you to keep your username and password safe - ultimately it is you that is responsible. So if you end up receiving dozens of negative feedback because somebody hacked your account, you wont have that removed (afaik). And a lot of innocent people have a lot of their money stolen from them by these fraudulent people.

Giving them access to your ebay account shows them your email address also, and i'm pretty sure a lot of people would use the same password for both their ebay, paypal and email address accounts. Of course they shouldn't be doing that, but a lot of people do and why leave yourself open to that possibility? You also give these people access to your address through ebay... it's a whole lot of information that you should be keeping secure as possible.

Just something more to think about

A Dub in Glasgo · 04-01-2008 06:09PM

Can you back that up about the sniping sites? Name the sites

rubadub · 04-01-2008 06:30PM

Vikings wrote: »

Just to come in on the other side of this. There are a lot of people who get scammed out of their money by exactly this, when someone sells something on your account - its up to you to keep your username and password safe - ultimately it is you that is responsible. So if you end up receiving dozens of negative feedback because somebody hacked your account, you wont have that removed (afaik). And a lot of innocent people have a lot of their money stolen from them by these fraudulent people.

True. I thought all this at the time and didnt join a snipe site for ages. They are going to have 1000's of members already I have not heard of any snipe sites that did "go bad". Has anybody?

Vikings wrote: »

Giving them access to your ebay account shows them your email address also, and i'm pretty sure a lot of people would use the same password for both their ebay, paypal and email address accounts. Of course they shouldn't be doing that, but a lot of people do and why leave yourself open to that possibility? You also give these people access to your address through ebay... it's a whole lot of information that you should be keeping secure as possible.

Yes, I had to change my password when joining. Should have mentioned this but thought it is obvious. People use the same passwords all over the place, registering on any old site. This is how I reckon most stuff is hacked. I have a standard password for many sites, and a good one for others that varies from site to site.

Can you back that up about the sniping sites? Name the sites

Sorry, back up what?

A Dub in Glasgo · 04-01-2008 06:50PM

Vikings to back up this

'And a lot of innocent people have a lot of their money stolen from them by these fraudulent people'

when referring to sniping sites

rubadub · 04-01-2008 07:01PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Vikings to back up this

'And a lot of innocent people have a lot of their money stolen from them by these fraudulent people'

when referring to sniping sites

I didnt think he specifically meant sniping sites, just hacked sites in general. Many use the same password all over the place on any old site.

There probably has been a few dodgy snipe sites, just like there are dodgy sites doing anything. You do a bit of research and pick a site you have seen recommended and has been around a good while.

eBay alt accounts for bumping your own prices...

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