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This is a Real Officer compared to the Muppets of Officers we have here.

  • 17-11-2007 08:33PM
    #1
    Flying
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭


    http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,31200-1293239,.html

    The story about a lt.col in the Parachute Regiment, who has shown his distinct disgust for the British Government and the army in the way they treat wounded men and in particular his own from 3 Para.

    I have to say this is a true and real officer,who has balls and I respect very much, it is about time someone told it as it is and not a sanitised BS CNN very of events for the public to see.

    It also in comparison to this country army shows up what a bunch of amateurs the Irish Army Officier is, I am slating the Officiers here and not the rank and file, as from my experience when have you seen a L/Col in the PDF lead from the front and get stuck in, IMHO they are a waste of time and nothing but a shower of degenerate Civil Servants that get the NCO's and Pte's to do the dirty work.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Dub13
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dub13


    Its a shame he had to leave before he went public,the MOD are ruthless with people who step out of line and they are losing alot of top men because of this.Even the way they said in that report that he got a promotion but 'not the one he wanted' they are trying to imply that this is just the actions of a disgruntled former employee.


    If the top brass faceless people in the MOD have you in there sights you are in a no win situation anybody who has read up on Colonel Tim Collins 'allegation's' will tell you the same.


  • #3
    Flying
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Flying


    Himself and Collins are off the same mindset, as per usual the MOD trying to cover it up with lies.


  • #4
    Exar Khun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭Exar Khun


    Whats wrong with Irish Officers ?


  • #5
    Flying
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Flying


    Exar Khun wrote: »
    Whats wrong with Irish Officers ?

    Whats right, they are civil servants, trained badly and rarely if ever lead from the front, that is left down to Senior and Junior NCO's to do.

    The quote in the army is " Being an Offiicer is a good pensionable job", beyond that very few want to soldier and look for plum (low risk) trips.

    Apart from the very few in the ARW the general Irish army officier has an exceptional bad attitude, is thought (indirectly) in the Curragh to look down on his/her subordinates and not to work with them. ( A generalisation you may say, but in fact true, I was born into an army family and served in the army and navy but this is from experience)


  • #6
    Exar Khun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭Exar Khun


    Surely such an unprofessonial attitude cannot be so pervasive throughout the officer corps?


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  • #7
    Irish_Army01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 445 ✭✭Irish_Army01


    Exar Khun wrote: »
    Surely such an unprofessonial attitude cannot be so pervasive throughout the officer corps?


    Its not, its like any job, there are good ones and bad ones. both of which I have come across. But mostly Good ones.


  • #8
    Oilrig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭Oilrig


    Funny this, for the first few years when I was serving I held the same view as the OP. But, there are some really good Officers in the DF.

    Having since worked with them as a Civvie in many diverse locations around the globe, I can assure you that PDF middle & senior ranking Officers are held in the highest regard by their peers. I have witnessed a PDF Officer (Col) leading a group composed of German, French, US Marines, Spanish and Brit Officers and was respected to the point of being revered by these guys.

    Changed my perspective.

    Not for a minute suggesting that there aren't fools in the junior Officer ranks, but there you go.

    Don't tar them all with the same brush.


  • #9
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    I've met one good officer in the PDF, ONE. In twenty two years service I've met ONE.


  • #10
    Satan Polaroid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Satan Polaroid


    Mairt wrote: »
    I've met one good officer in the PDF, ONE. In twenty two years service I've met ONE.

    That's a pretty damning indictment.


  • #11
    Flying
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Flying


    I would be off the same opinion as Mairt, I met a Captain from the ARW and he had balls and got stuck in.


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  • #12
    Flying
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Flying


    Also the selection for the Cadets is still (Unofficially) down to Political pull,Intervention from Clergy and also Nepotisim.

    It is rare if ever that I have seen the son or daughter of a Pte or NCO being a Cadet or Officer.

    Although the term canvassing will disqualify is everywhere it is there big time.


  • #13
    Exar Khun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭Exar Khun


    Aside from lacking balls why are they so bad ? I'm getting mixed reactions here. One side says they have a bad attitude the other says they are well respected. Its very confusing.


  • #14
    cushtac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭cushtac


    Flying wrote: »
    Also the selection for the Cadets is still (Unofficially) down to Political pull,Intervention from Clergy and also Nepotisim.

    It is rare if ever that I have seen the son or daughter of a Pte or NCO being a Cadet or Officer.

    Although the term canvassing will disqualify is everywhere it is there big time.

    I would count 8 PDF officers as good friends of mine, none of them had any relations in the PDF and came from ordinary working class families.


  • #15
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Flying wrote: »
    Also the selection for the Cadets is still (Unofficially) down to Political pull,Intervention from Clergy and also Nepotisim.

    It is rare if ever that I have seen the son or daughter of a Pte or NCO being a Cadet or Officer.

    Although the term canvassing will disqualify is everywhere it is there big time.


    I think that was true of an older generation of officers, not any more.


  • #16
    neilled
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,233 ✭✭✭neilled


    Flying wrote: »
    http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,31200-1293239,.html

    The story about a lt.col in the Parachute Regiment, who has shown his distinct disgust for the British Government and the army in the way they treat wounded men and in particular his own from 3 Para.

    I have to say this is a true and real officer,who has balls and I respect very much, it is about time someone told it as it is and not a sanitised BS CNN very of events for the public to see.

    It also in comparison to this country army shows up what a bunch of amateurs the Irish Army Officier is, I am slating the Officiers here and not the rank and file, as from my experience when have you seen a L/Col in the PDF lead from the front and get stuck in, IMHO they are a waste of time and nothing but a shower of degenerate Civil Servants that get the NCO's and Pte's to do the dirty work.

    Could you give an example of what you mean by leading from the front? This is coming from a civvy (with military aspirations once i'm finished college) here so explanation would be appreciated from serving and former members of the DF.

    Does leading from the front mean coming out and lambasting say DOD/Government of the day if the conditions of the men under their command aren't paid enough/got the corrrect gear?

    Does it mean running around on exercises, steyr in hand blazing away at the "enemy" and doing the same when the crap hits the fan? (The story of the officer in charge of the besieged company at jadotville springs to mind if the book is correct) and the "I will do anything anyone under my command would" attitude

    Thanks lads, response appreciated.


  • #17
    Flying
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Flying


    Basically an Officer on the ground with his men and leading them into battle, being with his men directly, fighting with them and no running things from a nice warm bunker or right back somewhere in the rear.


  • #18
    neilled
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,233 ✭✭✭neilled


    Flying wrote: »
    Basically an Officer on the ground with his men and leading them into battle, being with his men directly, fighting with them and no running things from a nice warm bunker or right back somewhere in the rear.

    Thanks for the clarification flying, would it be fair to say (from opinions i've seen offered on other forums) that there are times when the leadership style you mention is appropriate and times when standing back a bit (but not necessarily in the command bunker) is what should be done and its a matter of getting the balance right between the two?

    Seen an interesting opinion professed recently (which was somewhat thought provoking) that the British officer awarded the VC in the Falklands (was it H Jones) was a Col. who got killed doing the job of a corporal and could have saved lives if he'd stood back and assessed the situation properly. Again I'm a civvy and it was an opinion that is in stark contrast to the normal reading of the situation ie Jones led from the front, inspired the troops to take the battle to the enemy etc? Any thoughts on that?

    Thanks for the reply.


  • #19
    Flying
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Flying


    H Jones was mad but in a good way, he charged a MG emplacement and tried to outflank it but was dropped in the process, but that is a true company commander who lead by example and would not ask he men to do something that he would not do himself.

    Tim Collins would be another and the recent resignation of the Para Col, I mentioned earlier.


  • #20
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Surely Leading from the front would be staying and fighting alongside your men, not falling on your sword when the going gets tough.

    I admire what the guy has done, but I doubt he jeopardised his pension to do it.


  • #21
    landylad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭landylad


    Same story here, over the years a number former chiefs of staff have criticized the conditions in the Defence forces only after they retire, when they were in the job and possibly in a position to do something about it, the said and done nothing. Only once in the time I was in did I hear a serving officer publicly slate the DOD and the incumbent minister !!!


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  • #22
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,786 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Two words, Promotions Pensions.


  • #23
    Flying
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Flying


    Hagar wrote: »
    Two words, Promotions Pensions.

    Correct and Right


  • #24
    Dub13
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dub13


    Flying wrote: »
    Tim Collins would be another

    I am a big admirer of Mr Collins,I met him a couple of times and he is defiantly a 'real officer'.


  • #25
    neilled
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,233 ✭✭✭neilled


    Hagar wrote: »
    Two words, Promotions Pensions.

    But I would have thought the Cheif of staff was guranteed a pension anyway and had reached to top so to speak so what would there be to stop him?

    Actually there were a number of serving officers who were critical of the govt of the day on a prime time special called "a defenceless nation".

    The second part covering the naval service and air corps is available online but the army one isn't. It was broadcast in the aftermath of the white paper.


  • #26
    SASQUATCH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27 ✭SASQUATCH



    PAX


  • #27
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    SASQUATCH wrote: »
    PAX

    WTF again ?


  • #28
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Surely personal abuse is not warranted ? :eek:

    People have been banned for less


  • #29
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,786 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    The poster has already been infracted.

    Please leave the moderating to the mods. How else will I get paid my fat year-end bonus?


  • #30
    bunny shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Hagar wrote: »
    The poster has already been infracted.

    Please leave the moderating to the mods. How else will I get paid my fat year-end bonus?

    Humble apologies and glee


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  • #31
    Flying
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Flying


    bunny shooter wrote: »
    Surely personal abuse is not warranted ? :eek:

    People have been banned for less

    If you read his posts he does actually hang around vagrants ! and tis a troll !


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