Animal Testing

nyarlothothep · 20-10-2007 1:01am

faceman wrote: »

You havent really explained why its unethical. is it because we are taking the life of another living creature for our own consumption.

If thats the case, well you should eat anything vegetables included. The Jane Muslims can explain it better than me especially at this hour of night!!!

Animals have sentience to an extent

Dave! · 20-10-2007 1:20am

pretty-in-pink wrote: »

Againnst, there are to many differences between us, its cruel and wrong. Same goes for blood "sports". Gets my blood boiling

What do you mean by blood sports? I'm assuming hunting, no...?

Dudess · 20-10-2007 1:26am

Yeah, and coursing.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 20-10-2007 12:16pm

chicken fighting ftw
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7e/Jack_chicken.jpg/200px-Jack_chicken.jpg

RandolphEsq · 20-10-2007 12:46pm

Against

Dudess wrote: »

And? Is that not true?

Animals feel pain and fear. They feel frustration and boredom from being locked in a tiny space all day every day. Some animals, like dogs and chimps, feel sadness.
What is your point?

-I wouldn't call it a ''poor,defenseless,animal''; that is what you would say about a human who was being tested. Again it is about convincing yourself the animal is NOT a human and therefore cannot be regarded the same way. This does not,however, excuse cruelty to animals.

-Animals only go as far as feeling, they never think about the feelings they're experiencing and say to themselves ''I'd rather not be here''.

Dudess · 20-10-2007 1:21pm

But testing/being kept in a confined space severely traumatises the animals and they often descend into madness.

thelordofcheese · 20-10-2007 1:22pm

Against

MooseJam wrote: »

I for one welcome our new intergalactic overlords

our new, pleasant smelling, overlords.

Tigger · 20-10-2007 1:28pm

Only if its an Atari Jaguar being tested upon

Terry wrote: »

They're food.

Are tigers bad for eating zebras?

tigers are bad just sleeping

but they are a beautiful defination of purpose

i think we should test stuff on criminals but its not gonna happen

<waits for nampy pamby liberals to start on him>

Tigger · 20-10-2007 1:29pm

Only if its an Atari Jaguar being tested upon

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

No way that would happen.
At not until we've sold them all the peoples in the developing world.

when i rule the world you should apply for a govt job

bleg · 20-10-2007 4:10pm

Against

Nature Boy wrote: »

Say an alien race come to earth. They are far more intelligent than us, far more powerful and far more wealthy. They wish to test their perfumes, toilet cleaner, medice etc on us because it cost effective and our lives are "less regarded", would you accept your fate?

i'd tell them that here's a lab rat, it has the same basic biochemical make up as myself, use it.

you however, since you're against animal testing would have to put yourself forward.

bleg · 20-10-2007 4:12pm

Against

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Well, when you can eat vegetables why put a living creature through the experience of death and take its life against its will so you can enjoy eating it? Its not nice for the animal but its not a terrible crime, its, as I said, not perfectly ethical from our moral standpoint.

a vegetable is living too...

nyarlothothep · 20-10-2007 4:53pm

bleg wrote: »

a vegetable is living too...

nyarlothothep wrote:

Animals have sentience to an extent

`///

EamonnKeane · 20-10-2007 9:12pm

Against

Well, when you can eat vegetables why put a living creature through the experience of death and take its life against its will so you can enjoy eating it? Its not nice for the animal but its not a terrible crime, its, as I said, not perfectly ethical from our moral standpoint.

You can't argue everything from an empathetic standpoint. "Oh, you support jailing murderers! How would you like it if someone locked you in a prison cell?" I know the animals are "innocent", whatever that means, but it remains that everything suffers and dies, so this is really just a drop in the ocean for the animals.

The point is, as humans we do what is best for us. If we don't infect thousands of monkeys with HIV for testing, it will wipe out most of the world's people.

nyarlothothep · 20-10-2007 9:40pm

EamonnKeane wrote: »

You can't argue everything from an empathetic standpoint. "Oh, you support jailing murderers! How would you like it if someone locked you in a prison cell?" I know the animals are "innocent", whatever that means, but it remains that everything suffers and dies, so this is really just a drop in the ocean for the animals.

The point is, as humans we do what is best for us. If we don't infect thousands of monkeys with HIV for testing, it will wipe out most of the world's people.

You can infect thousands of monkeys with HIV to benefit humanity, but its still not a good or right thing to do, its done out of necessity. Same with killing animals to consume their vital proteins. Most people have difficulty stomaching the thought of eating cats and dogs, I think thats some indication of the fact that eating animals cannot be justified 100% ethically given the existence of vegetables.

Terry · 20-10-2007 10:09pm

Against

nyarlothothep wrote: »

You can infect thousands of monkeys with HIV to benefit humanity, but its still not a good or right thing to do, its done out of necessity. Same with killing animals to consume their vital proteins. Most people have difficulty stomaching the thought of eating cats and dogs, I think thats some indication of the fact that eating animals cannot be justified 100% ethically given the existence of vegetables.

Depends on the breed of dog or cat.
There's not too much meat on them anyway.

On the other hand, horse meat is really nice. I don't know why more people don't eat it.

I wouldn't eat simians, purely because of the risk of developing CJD. Genetically, they are too close to us for comfort.

Nature Boy · 21-10-2007 12:10pm

Only if its an Atari Jaguar being tested upon

bleg wrote: »

i'd tell them that here's a lab rat, it has the same basic biochemical make up as myself, use it.

you however, since you're against animal testing would have to put yourself forward.

Why would I? I'm an animal, I'm against animal testing...

Terry · 21-10-2007 2:07pm

Against

I'm a mammal.

CathyMoran · 21-10-2007 2:39pm

Against

I would not be here had they not experimented on some poor dog back in the 1920's (am a diabetic) - while I feel bad about it, I would rather be alive. Also, I can not imagine being alive today had they not tested my chemo drugs on animals first to see if they worked. I am against cosmetics testing though.

Clare Bear · 21-10-2007 4:37pm

Only if its an Atari Jaguar being tested upon

I'm against it....but then again if I got sick tomorrow and had to take drugs that were tested on animals I'd be grateful I could...I hate that animals have had to go through such abuse for it but if it came down to me or my family needing medicine that was tested on animals I'd have to say I'm for it....completely against testing for cosmetics though.

faceman · 21-10-2007 5:10pm

out of curiousity, those of us who dont agree with testing cosmetics on animals, do you only use cosmetics that weren't testing on them?

im against it but admittedly i dont practise what i preach!

Clare Bear · 21-10-2007 5:13pm

Only if its an Atari Jaguar being tested upon

faceman wrote: »

out of curiousity, those of us who dont agree with testing cosmetics on animals, do you only use cosmetics that weren't testing on them?

im against it but admittedly i dont practise what i preach!

Yes, I always make sure it says Not Tested on Animals if I'm buying a new product that I haven't bought before.

oneeyedsnake · 21-10-2007 9:36pm

Against

Dudess wrote: »

But testing/being kept in a confined space severely traumatises the animals and they often descend into madness.

Ok the chimps might go a bit nuts.Does this really matter if even one person has one more day with his loved ones more he dies of cancer/the good AIDS/septicaemia ect... as a result of the drug that was tested on the chimp?

MooseJam · 22-10-2007 12:04am

Only if its an Atari Jaguar being tested upon

oneeyedsnake wrote: »

Ok the chimps might go a bit nuts.Does this really matter if even one person has one more day with his loved ones more he dies of cancer/the good AIDS/septicaemia ect... as a result of the drug that was tested on the chimp?

I'd value a chimps life a lot more that one day of some random punter

Terry · 22-10-2007 12:32am

Against

My chimp got 600 points in his leaving cert.

Nevyn · 22-10-2007 12:39am

faceman wrote: »

out of curiousity, those of us who dont agree with testing cosmetics on animals, do you only use cosmetics that weren't testing on them?

im against it but admittedly i dont practise what i preach!

Lush ftw

MooseJam · 22-10-2007 12:45am

Only if its an Atari Jaguar being tested upon

faceman wrote: »

im against it but admittedly i dont practise what i preach!

you use cosmetics ? you're a bloke aren't you ?

Dudess · 22-10-2007 2:58am

oneeyedsnake wrote: »

Ok the chimps might go a bit nuts.Does this really matter if even one person has one more day with his loved ones more he dies of cancer/the good AIDS/septicaemia ect... as a result of the drug that was tested on the chimp?

:eek::eek::eek: oneeyedsnake in non-trolling, intelligent post shocker!!!
See? It's not that difficult to be civil... But anyway, I wasn't arguing against animal testing. That post was in response to someone saying that animals don't have the same feelings as humans, which isn't true. They may not share ALL the same feelings as humans but they do experience physical pain, anguish, fear, frustration/boredom (when in confined spaces for exceptionally long periods), trauma, mental illness, and some animals, like dogs and chimps, experience sadness.
But that post was quite refreshing after the obnoxiousness of:

oneeyedsnake wrote:

ROFL, like anyone could give a fuc.I hope the chimp got his hep c from violent rape by a big buck gorilla. This thread reminds me of the animal rights activists that were sat out side my lecture building the other week, all they got were a load of sniggers and when they approached me with their propaganda I tore it up right in their face ,feicin hippies. For the record I think animal testing is great especially the stress test were they put a hamster on a hot plate and increase the temperature at a set rate till the little bugger dies. I fully support animal testing for both pharmaceuticals and cosmetics and don't mind a spot of fox hunting now and again either.

Yeah, that's a very beneficial test for humans all right.

Edit: I take back my non-trolling remark at the beginning of this post - just spotted your use of the phrase "good AIDS". Presumably from that Chris Morris sketch featuring some right-wing c*nt chat-show host (no doubt modelled on Robert Kilroy-Silk) who defines AIDS contracted through a blood transfusion as "good AIDS" and AIDS contracted by a gay man through sexual contact as "bad AIDS".
Undoubtedly a troll. No doubt it's only a matter of time before you get banned - I mean you've already got banned from Personal Issues.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 22-10-2007 4:55am

do you have some fetish about trolls or something?

Terry · 22-10-2007 8:41am

Against

If you think someone is trolling, please report the post.
Thanks.

Dudess · 22-10-2007 3:35pm

Mordeth wrote: »

do you have some fetish about trolls or something?

Yes, I suppose I do...

Animal Testing

Comments