'Free' cough City Bike scheme

lostexpectation · 02-03-2007 02:51AM

9. What percentage of the 1800 billboards that are due to be removed under the scheme are operated by JCDecaux, and how many do not currently have planning permission?
The 1800m2 of present advertising to be removed is all operated by JC Decaux. I am not aware of any outstanding planning enforcement cases in relation to JC Decaux.

nicely evaded ask this question again how many have planning permission

10. What alternatives to this scheme were considered and rejected; Are the details to be published?
Through the EU Procurement process there were six initial tenders/expressions of interest and JC Decaux was deemed the preferred bidder/best offer.[/QUOTE]

and where are those offers...

what the time frame on the bikes whats the time frame on the poster removal and reinstation

Victor · 03-03-2007 04:58PM

MadsL wrote:

Care to share An extranet login would be nice

Go find a willing councillor.

... and don't suggest that I am one.

cyclopath2001 · 03-03-2007 09:10PM

Will ordinary cyclists be able to park their personal bikes at the new bike facilities or are they reserved for pay-cyclists?

penexpers · 04-03-2007 08:47PM

If it's the same as Lyon then cyclists will not be able to park their personal bikes at the new bike facilities.

DubTony · 05-03-2007 01:12AM

DublinWriter wrote:

Can you imagine the numbers of these things ending up in the Liffey of a Saturday night?

Nice idea, but surely they'd be really difficult to pull out of the ground.

penexpers · 12-04-2007 10:00AM

.

Ad space exchanged for 500 bikes

Olivia Kelly

Dublin City Council has granted one of the world's largest advertising companies permission to erect some 130 advertising panels across the city for 15 years, in exchange for 500 bicycles and four public toilets.

The bicycles are to be available for the public to rent, at a fee yet to be decided, by the end of the year, subject to approval of the planning permission for the advertising by An Bord Pleanála.

The contract with advertisers JC Decaux will see free-standing panels ranging from 2sq m (6.5sq ft) - approximately the size of a bus shelter advertisement - to 7sq m (23sq ft) placed on prominent sites, including Henry Street, Liffey Street and Smithfield Plaza.

JC Decaux had originally applied for approximately 150 panels, including several on O'Connell Street, but withdrew a number of applications including all those on O'Connell Street, following a large volume of objections.

However, it is likely that a number of permissions approved by the council will be appealed to An Bord Pleanála, particularly those in the high-footfall shopping areas of the city.

The details of the contract have not been disclosed, but it is estimated that the advertising space sold on the panels would be worth at least €1 million every year to JC Decaux.

The council will receive no money from the advertising, but in addition to the bicycles and toilets, will get a number of signposts, freestanding maps and "heritage trail" posts. The council also has a commitment from JC Decaux that it will remove its large advertising hoardings from the city.

While it was a "small victory" that the company had withdrawn its application for the O'Connell Street panels, Labour councillor Emer Costello said she was very disappointed that permission was granted for most of the panels.

"It is particularly disappointing for Smithfield, where the whole point was to have an open plaza. It will deface the civic space to have the beautiful vista littered with these polls."

The deal struck with JC Decaux was not properly presented to the councillors before it was agreed, she said.

"This scheme wasn't properly debated with the city councillors and I will be a lot more mistrustful of proposals like this in the future. We have sold ourselves short for 500 bikes and a couple of toilets and I don't think it was worth it."

However, fellow Labour councillor and long-time proponent of a city bike scheme, Andrew Montague, said the bicycles could make a substantial impact on city traffic.

"I'm delighted that the council granted planning permission, it's the first step to getting this up and running."

JC Decaux was operating a similar scheme in Lyon in France and it had proved extremely popular, he said.

"In Lyon, the traffic in the city reduced by 10 per cent after the bike scheme was introduced. If we got half of that or and significant reduction in traffic, from my point of view, it will have been worth it."
© 2007 The Irish Times

Cheese Princess · 12-04-2007 10:28AM

MadsL wrote:

The proposal appendix is from JCDecaux not from DCC (damned if I can find the rest of the proposal - hidden behind DCC Extranet no doubt) so it can be expected that a French company would be fairly ignorant of the crap state of Dublin's cycle facilities.

The board of directors and all the managers at JCDecaux Ireland are Irish not French so they are far from ignorant of our cycle facilites or our dangerous road/traffic/driving problems.

I think everyone has been misled by the 1800 billboards figure as well. The company don't own that many billboards in the whole country. I'm not familiar with the proposal but from the DCC responses it seems that they're giving up 1800m2 of advertising space. With the average board being 18m2, does this mean they are actually only losing 100 boards?

gjim · 12-04-2007 10:48AM

I think everyone has been misled by the 1800 billboards figure as well. The company don't own that many billboards in the whole country. I'm not familiar with the proposal but from the DCC responses it seems that they're giving up 1800m2 of advertising space. With the average board being 18m2, does this mean they are actually only losing 100 boards?

Good call. If you read the conditions attached to the grant of planning permission, one of them is that JCDecaux have to remove 100 such boards (within a year or something). It's sneakily worded actually to suggest that it would be 100 billboards PER METROPOLE but if you do the sums, that would be impossible and when you re-read the wording of the "condition", it's obvious that as long as any 100 billboards are removed, it will be satisfied. So 100 boards have to be removed in return for over 100 on street ad installations. Well done tidying up Dublin, DCC!

Capt'n Midnight · 13-04-2007 12:35AM

what happens if lots of bikes are stolen ?

will they be replaced or will the company still be able to advertise when all the bikes are gone ?

Bee · 15-04-2007 12:14PM

Originally posted in PHOENIX MAGAZINE

COUNCILLORS BEING TAKEN FOR A RIDE

A REMARKABLE row has emerged in Dublin City Council over a contract already agreed by officials with advertising firm, JCDecaux, in what has been described as a “free bike” scheme for Dublin: that is “free” in exchange for 120 billboard sites. So controversial is the scheme that denizens like Bertie Ahern – as a Drumcondra resident – has objected to it.

While media reports have concentrated on the bicycles, the real story is that councillors are outraged at the deal being already agreed by officials, with councillor Tom Stafford’s criticisms of the plan as a “terrible, terrible application” typifying representatives’ views.

Councillors were simply not aware of the scheme’s details – that is until 70 simultaneous applications to erect billboards was made by JCDecaux during December, with another 50 in January. These roadside units are to display adverts on one side, with “civic information” on the other – and all to be located on public footpaths.

Strangely there has been no Environmental Impact Assessment, nor a council motion selling public land – while councillors are also puzzled as to why, if the council is to be a beneficiary, that the applications were not addressed to Bórd Pleanála.

More interesting is that by virtue of the project being applied for as more than 120 individual applications, it would cost over €25 grand for total adjudication by the Bórd.

However, Executive Planning Manager Ciaran MacNamara has been busy at council meetings defending the “public realm enhancements”. Describing the proposed billboards as a “new departure for the industry”, MacNamara claims that along with the 500 rental bikes, the city will get 4 public toilets, “a family of way-finding signage”, and JCDecaux would reduce their current billboards by 25%.

Yet despite the contract having been already signed, MacNamara is refusing to release it to councillors on the basis it as “commercially sensitive” – with councillors now resorting to FOI requests.

Mr MacNamara also claims that “very few” objections had been received; maybe he didn’t see the one from Bertie Ahern, or from Tony Gregory, or the one from Councillor Larry O’ Toole. Councillor Tom Brabazon has been very busy getting in a dozen objections – while dozens of other interests have also objected, such as Dublin City Business Association whose members – Arnotts, Clerys, and Eason’s – have all filed objections.

Then there’s the Dublin Transportation Office’s submission regarding the 70 15-feet high “metropole” applications, which states “the DTO is totally opposed” as illuminated signage “is considered to be a safety hazard”.

Now councillors have begun to do their own sums regarding the advertising revenue potential; Tom Stafford estimated €13 million per annum – which over the 15 year terms is over €200 Million; i.e. enough to buy 2 million bikes...

Anybody feel as if they have been taken for a ride?

There are a number of disturbing aspects about this project. The most important is obviously the horrible aesthetic consequences. The second is the sneaky way that the proposal is being put through planning; 70 individual applications - thus potentially costing 1400 euro for an individual to object - lodged the week before last Christmas, hoping that people wont have enough time to object. Even if only half of the signs fail in planning they will still have a terrible visual impact on the city . Another disturbing aspect is that the council are complicit in this vandalism; in exchange for allowing these signs the company will install some sort of bicycle rental stations. This is the worst kind of shallow environmental tokenism; I wonder how many Dubliners are dying to cycle around the place but simply can't afford the likes of the 100 euro Lidl bike I use?

However the idea of this failed european experiment in bicycles for the masses is probably marxist enough to have the support of the environmental lobby. If the experiment fails (which it will) Dubliners will be stuck with these huge ads cluttering up the streets.

The only thing going for such schemes is a weird sort of Green/commie/hippy appeal as there are simply no other tangible benefits. You can buy a new bike and lock for less that the cost of maintaining one of these rental bikes for a single year. I know of nobody who would like to cycle around the city but cannot afford a bike so these schemes are a solution to a non-existing problem.

If DCC were serious about encouraging cycling in the city then they could start to do something to improve the cycling environment.Painting lines to narrow roads for traffic do make life safe for road users. Unfortunately this would be a mildly challenging task for the over paid DCC "traffic engineers".

It's much easier to engage in shallow tokenism: prostitute the aesthetics of the city, have a few special bike racks installed around the place with 50 yellow bikes and then line up for the photo ops, the special features with a credulous media (I can imagine the introduction to the feature on the RTE news) and pat each other in the back while the bikes are chucked in the Liffey.

It also highlights DCC’s the cynical and useless noises that DCC make about “road safety” when the DTO correctly see these Adverts as highly dangerous to all road users

The deal stinks far more than its stupidity

edanto · 15-04-2007 12:36PM

A massive difference between this scheme and the one in Lyon is the size of the billboards - the billboards in Dublin will be monstrous, a few metres high, compared with much smaller ones in Lyon.

They seem to have chosen the locations away from the rich suburbs (to avoid objections), a list of locations and much more information/discussion is at
http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=5715

AlekSmart · 15-04-2007 01:03PM

There is a substantial aroma of JC Decay about this wheeze.

The need for a "Senior "Executive" of Dublin City Council to adopt such a strong defensive posture towards a private company`s proposals is enough to make even Dublins Village Idiot`s go Hmmmmmmmm :rolleyes: !

Bee is dead on the money when saying.......

"You can buy a new bike and lock for less that the cost of maintaining one of these rental bikes for a single year. I know of nobody who would like to cycle around the city but cannot afford a bike so these schemes are a solution to a non-existing problem."

There is little doubt that certain top-floor elements in Civic Offices have been stirring a boiling cauldron and endeavouring to produce amazing things from its depths and this crap may well be only the beginning.

It defies logic that a City in such a state as Dublin can afford to have a senior "Executive" something as Mr MacNamara putting his time and energies into this seedy little venture.

No doubt when JCD get their hundreds of "Sites" up and running Mr "Senior Executive" MacNamara will have plenty of time to head for Stephens Green/Dawson St junction and finally fix DCC`s OWN Civic Information display which has been "Under Test" since the bloody thing went up . :eek:

penexpers · 16-04-2007 09:41AM

edanto wrote:

A massive difference between this scheme and the one in Lyon is the size of the billboards - the billboards in Dublin will be monstrous, a few metres high, compared with much smaller ones in Lyon.

It's not even that - the ones in Lyon were existing bus stops and tram stations.

Seth Brundle · 16-04-2007 10:14AM

How much will the bike scheme cost to set up and operate for 5 years?
How much revenue will be generated from the billboards over 5 years.
Methinks one will be much much much more than the other!

Should this not have been put out to tender anyhow?
The linked pdf (http://www.dublincity.ie/Images/Appendices%201-5%20reduced_tcm35-48977.pdf) mentions the words 'proposer', 'bidder' yet only once is small lettering mentions 'JCDecaux'. Is this a DCC or JCD document?
It also states: "Display panels, which will be used for advertising, will also be permanently available to the city as a Civic Communication Network." If it is showing adverts then it isn't permanently available to the city!

How much will it cost to rent a bike?

Seth Brundle · 18-04-2007 09:54AM

There was a senior planner from DCC on Newstalk this morning (her name escapes me).
She was telling Claire Byrne about how the scheme was worth €80m over 15 years. JCD is reported to be getting about €45 over the 15 years also through adverts.
How on earth is this worth €80m to DCC?
One of the reasons DCC are apparently doing this is to take control of advertising in the city away from the advertisers. Surely it would have been better just to enforce the existing planning laws?

penexpers · 19-04-2007 03:31PM

Just listened to that interview. No way is it worth €80 million to DCC even over 15 years. Her claims that they never had control of advertising space in the City Centre are laughable at best - if they enforced current planning laws that would suffice.

Seth Brundle · 19-04-2007 04:52PM

There was someone else from the advertising industry on Newstalk this morning and he claimed that he is not in favour of these and claimed that he wouldn't want this form of medium and he gave an estimate earnings of €5million per annum from the hoardings.

ODS · 22-04-2007 07:28PM

Just a quick reminder to any 3rd parties that have made objections - the deadline for many appeals to An Bord Pleanalla shuts Tuesday.

ODS · 05-10-2007 01:33PM

There are hearings into this next week in An Bord Pleanalla - over 2 dozen are under appeal. Since last posting, we received an auctioneer's opinion as to what effect this would have on our property. The auctioneer has said that in the metropole development would devalue the property as it would obscure the business to such extent that it would be "catastrophic to the company's passing trade".

This is an absolute disgrace - that a local authority would be involved in developments that will damage the value of other properties. What's worse is that we know other owners who only found out after the appeals deadline - they are horrified + outraged. Does anybody else know anybody in this position?

A further article appeared on the poor value for the city. Pity the journalist didn't talk to me as to what this'll do for my business. Still the piece shows what a shite deal this is...

The Sunday Times wrote:

Originally Published in The Sunday Times - July 1, 2007

Dublin 'shortchanged' on free bikes

Ruadhan Mac Eoin

OILING the wheels of commerce to drive a green agenda sounds like a
win-win situation, but critics of Dublin's "bicycles for billboards"
deal say the council has ended up a loser.

J C Decaux, one of the world's leading outdoor advertising agencies,
has given the capital significantly fewer bikes proportionally than it
gave to Paris, Lyons and other European cities where it has billboard
agreements.

Dublin has agreed to let J C Decaux erect 120 billboards on public
footpaths around the city. In return the agency will provide 500
bicycles for low rent at 25 locations. It will also supply four kiosks
with public lavatories, maps and signposts. The value to Dublin is
calculated at €85m. The agency has also agreed to withdraw 100 of its
existing hoardings from the city. New ones will be located on public
property and some will carry civic information.

In Paris the company is providing 20,600 bikes this year in return for
1,628 billboards – more than 12.6 bikes for each billboard, three
times the Dublin figure of little more four per hoarding. The Paris
contract also involves paying an annual rental of €2,085 for each site
for 10 years.

Several other European cities have similar deals with J C Decaux.
Vienna was the first, in 2002. It was initially a disaster, with 2,000
bicycles stolen in the first 48 hours, but then 900 secure
GPS-traceable bikes being provided. Each bike in Dublin will have a
mini-chip to allow it to be tracked.

In Lyons, a city with a population similar to Dublin, 3,000 bicycles
have been made available – six times more than here – while Barcelona
also has 3,000. In Brussels, only 250 bicycles are available, but the
J C Decaux advertising element is restricted to bike sheds. The city
has paid €178,000 towards the scheme.

Dublin officials are refusing to release the contract on grounds of
"commercial sensitivity", so the value of any cash transaction is
included in the 15-year deal is not clear.

Andrew Montague, a Labour councillor who supports the project, said
more transparency would be preferable. He believes J C Decaux got the
contract after "a fair tender process", in which there had been six
bids. "As the Paris scheme is a much bigger scale, it was logical that
they would get better value", Montague said.

The Paris terms were agreed after a court challenge by a competitor,
Clear Channel, which claimed there were irregularities in the original
tendering process.

Emer Costelloe, another Labour councillor, said the revelations about
the Paris project confirmed her "worst fears" that Dublin was getting
"an incredibly poor deal".

She would be urging the incoming Lord Mayor to address this "as a priority".

Dublin is permitting 70 "metropole" billboards, which are 3.5 metres
high, automated and illuminated. A further 50 electronic billboards,
similar in size to that of bus-shelter adverts, are to be installed in
the city centre, primarily in the north inner city and along the
Aungier Street axis.

The Dublin deal has attracted criticism over the lack of an
environmental impact assessment and road safety issues. Forty appeals
against planning permission have been lodged with An Bord Pleanala.
They include objections filed by businesses such as Arnotts and An
Taisce, the national trust, which say they were not consulted.

One complaint is that J C Decaux has engaged in project splitting by
sending in 130 separate applications to the council. Critics say
officials were already predisposed to granting planning permission.

Most of the billboards are to be erected on the north side and in the
inner city, which critics say will lead "to further stigmatising
already disadvantaged neighbourhoods".

Stuart Fogarty, former President of The Institute of Advertising
Practitioners in Ireland, has lodged an appeal on the basis that "the
agreed advertising sites will be both obtrusive and create negative
aesthetics for the city…and are not helpful to either motorists or
pedestrians".

The Sunday Times understands that J C Decaux is already at an advanced
stage of negotiation with Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown Council to introduce
a similar scheme.

daveirl · 05-10-2007 04:43PM

This post has been deleted.

An Citeog · 07-10-2007 11:20PM

I've lived in both Cologne and Barcelona and both cities have a similar scheme. In Cologne you need to ring a number to get the bike unlocked and it's charged to your phonebill. Not sure what happens if you don't have a landline. The bikes are scattered individually all around the city rather than at designated points. It's run by Deutsche Bahn.

The system in Barcelona is slightly different. You pay €25 for the year and get a special swipe card that you use at the designated bike-racks. It gets a lot of use and I'd like to see it in Dublin aswell. The main problem is the trade-off that the city council seems to have made.

Metrobest · 08-10-2007 04:27PM

The Barcelona scheme is funded by revenue from the on-street parking meters, and everyone knows it´s been a fantastic success, in fact a victim of its own success because I often have trouble finding a rack with a spare bike!

Bicing, as the scheme is called, is being extended all across the city, and the volume of cyclists on the streets is rising significantly because of it. A lot of traffic lanes in the Eixample district are going to be turned into bike lanes because bicing is so popular; streets which had five car lanes will have three for cars and two for bicycles. I approve of this.

Capt'n Midnight · 08-10-2007 09:30PM

Does it take 3V cards ?

Stark · 08-10-2007 10:01PM

Have any of the bikes actually arrived?

Victor · 12-10-2007 10:24PM

Not to my knowledge. The signs are going through An Bord Pleanála at the moment and I expect the decision on them is the lynchpin upon which everything hangs.

Victor · 21-10-2007 04:25AM

kbannon wrote: »

There was someone else from the advertising industry on Newstalk this morning and he claimed that he is not in favour of these and claimed that he wouldn't want this form of medium and he gave an estimate earnings of €5million per annum from the hoardings.

Of course he's opposed to them, they are his competition!

Just to prove how popular something like this, look at all the ecocabs and the like that are about. www.ecocabs.ie

Seth Brundle · 21-10-2007 11:06AM

Digging up the past Victor?
I believe my point was regarding the advertising exec placing a figure on the annual income of this scheme for JCD.

MadsL · 21-10-2007 06:21PM

I attended the An Bord Pleanala hearing as one of the appellants to the planning permission that was granted.

Whilst there has been significant discusssion and PR about the bikes, which are certainly not free - there will be a rental charge and most likely a deposit of €150 odd charged to a payment card (credit/debit etc)

The most disquieting aspect to this whole scheme is that there has been no public consulation, environmental impact assessment or specific involvement/approval of dublin city councillors as a whole. The most they got was a high level overview at the area planning committee stage - which they approved, never suspecting that they would have no futher opportunity to review this scheme before a contract was signed. The contract with JCDecaux was signed, but the City Manager has refused to release it to the council claiming it is commmercially sensitive.

DCC apparently did a 'best-practice' survey to look at cities with a good method for dealing with advertising, legibility (whatever that means) and methods of dealing with increasing pedestrian movement/wayfinding.

Guess where they chose to conduct this supposedly independent study - Lyon! Suprise, Suprise. I would love to know who 'funded' this study.

Then the planning applications arrived before Xmas last (22 Dec) for the 70 metropoles. Followed by the 50 street level advertising structures. Some of these were even sited in conservation areas! Supposedly DCC Planning screened these applications to ensure appropriate 'load' of the locactions - even going so far as to create a whole new 'zoning' map specifically for 'outdoor advertising' - even though the council has not seen, never mind approved ANY change like this to the Dublin City Development Plan.

There is strong evidence that the planning applications for the signs were rammed through approval - those with any significant negative newsworthy potential - like the one Bertie objected to - or the O'Connell St applications, were quickly withdrawn - why would you pay a planning fee and then withdraw? Unless the planning dept were 'helping' the developer 'select' appropriate sites. All the remaining applications were then approved by DCC Planning with a 'cut and paste' job on the planning approvals. There is evidence that individual planners rejected applications, but were overruled.

Astonishingly, DCC Planning asserted that the own the land where these signs are located (and also gave permission as the owner of the land for each planning application) In many cases they do not own the land - even confronted with this, their legal dept claimed that it was perfectly legal for DCC to grant permission for a developer on land it did not own without the explicit permission of the land owner, as the legal owner had the right to challenge this in court. In other words, we don't care - sue us.

So we have a co-developer (DCC - as they will gain from the scheme) granting planning permission to a developer (JCDecaux) on land that the co-developer may not own (the footpath) to their own mutual benefit. :eek: Can you spell 'conflict of interest' DCC?

There is a planning condition attached to each of these that JCDecaux remove 100 48-sheet billboards as part of the deal. The reality is that JCDecaux don't really want these 48 sheeters, when they have the gold-mine of 70 driver focused 'monster-poles' and 50 street level golddust pavement locations. Make no mistake this is worth milllions to them over the unprecedented 15 year contract

So we now have a situation where now DCC are committed to a project that has a contract with a developer with a dubious track record. Jean Claude Decaux (Chairman) has been convicted personally twice of corruption, and they have an appaling record on compliance with planning regulations for the 48 sheet billboards in Ireland.

The signs are going through An Bord Pleanála at the moment and I expect the decision on them is the lynchpin upon which everything hangs

Don't assume that Victor, we saw a letter on the last day of the hearing from the asst city manager claiming that the scheme would go ahead regardless of ABP decision. It is unfortunate that more people did not appeal but to pay €300 (210+90 request for an oral hearing) is a big price to pay for your democratic right to have a say in how the city of dublin looks in 2008. I'm also amazed at a city council that allows it's planning dept to ride roughshod over the council and draw up planning zones without ANY consultation to suit it's own agendas.

The protest about this is not about bike schemes as such. It is about a planning department and city manager that seem to think they above the concepts of 'democracy' 'consultation' and 'informed consent' of the duly elected city officials. It is also about the disgraceful way they have jumped into bed with a company which has very little regard for proper planning process and enforcement in this country.

MadsL · 21-10-2007 06:52PM

Just to prove how popular something like this, look at all the ecocabs and the like that are about. www.ecocabs.ie

Now that's a better idea.....wouldn't this make more sense to extend this scheme than sell the footpath to commercial self-interest?

edanto · 21-10-2007 08:28PM

MadsL - thanks for the details and going to the hearing. You're right - this shows how close the relationship is between the corporate and upper-echelon council boardrooms.

I've spoken to one of the councillors that's quoted as supporting the deal and I think that his motivation is more around getting more people cycling - I don't think he has the business connections to really benefit from the money that will be rolling around. It also angers him that all the received tender documents and the final contract (that the council are making with OUR footpaths and attention!) are kept under lock and key by the city manager.

I'd be interested to know what the numbers are - could anyone in the industry figure out a value for these incredibly intrusive advertising boards over the 15 years? If we want to stop this - we have to follow the money.

Without access to the tender documents and contracts, what resources are there online or underground to find out all the sums and people involved? (feel free to PM)

'Free' *cough* City Bike scheme

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'Free' cough City Bike scheme