Pharmacists not dispensing methadone to junkies.

Degsy · 16-10-2007 11:54AM #1

Apparantly 140 chemists are refusing to dispense methadone as a result of a row with the Health Service Executive.The HSE are planning to pay less to the pharmacies for drugs to save money and they've reacted by blanking the junkies.Chemsists,it would seem are greedy bastards.I wonder what would happen if they got rid of methadone maintanance altogether,its already costing the taxpayer a fortune and there's more junkies around than ever.Its not like the HSE will fund my drinking habits by subsidising beer at my local off license.

Red Hand · 16-10-2007 12:01PM

The country would be in uproar if it was insulin.

prendy · 16-10-2007 12:06PM

The country would be in uproar if it was insulin.

And rightly so......
theres a big difference.one is uncontrollable the other is self induced.

robinph · 16-10-2007 12:08PM

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

The country would be in uproar if it was insulin.

I know I would anyway.

It's kind of weird that they have picked methadone to stop dispensing as there is not going to be much support for their cause by them picking on the junkies as 'respectable' society will just ignore them.

Noopti · 16-10-2007 12:09PM

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

The country would be in uproar if it was insulin.

And rightly so.

KTRIC · 16-10-2007 12:09PM

F*ck the junkies, let them go cold turkey. Could be good for a laugh.

is_that_so · 16-10-2007 12:09PM

Have a listen to this from Drivetime yesterday. It's 15 minutes long and it has views from both sides on it. IMO it adds a bit of balance but it still makes me wonder how something like this is allowed to get to this point.

Red Hand · 16-10-2007 12:14PM

prendy wrote: »

And rightly so......
theres a big difference.one is uncontrollable the other is self induced.

A good many people develop type 2 diabetes due to being overweight and having poor diets/large alcohol consumption.

Self induced indeed.

robinph · 16-10-2007 12:16PM

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

A good many people develop type 2 diabetes due to being overweight and having poor diets/large alcohol consumption.

Self induced indeed.

Although there would not be a huge number of type 2 diabetics would be on insulin.

Savman · 16-10-2007 12:21PM

Ah sure they're only junkies :rolleyes:

What an odd dispute.

Sir Random · 16-10-2007 12:23PM

Targeting people on methadone is a disgraceful, unethical way of trying to blackmail the government. What's next, will they stop dispensing blood-pressure medicine to pensioners?

I won't be surprised if pharmacies are the first to suffer from a new wave of jump-overs, etc.

robinph · 16-10-2007 12:29PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Have a listen to this from Drivetime yesterday. It's 15 minutes long and it has views from both sides on it. IMO it adds a bit of balance but it still makes me wonder how something like this is allowed to get to this point.

So they picked methadone because the people on that drug are younger and more able to obtain a replacement drug from other sources according to the first person they interviewed. :eek:

If the drug dealers were dishing out insulin on the street then I guess they would have picked that instead then.

yom 1 · 16-10-2007 12:57PM

Sir Random wrote: »

Targeting people on methadone is a disgraceful, unethical way of trying to blackmail the government. What's next, will they stop dispensing blood-pressure medicine to pensioners?

I won't be surprised if pharmacies are the first to suffer from a new wave of jump-overs, etc.

Whats next apparently is that the IPU and all its members will not accept any HSE scheme from the start of november to include any medical cards and drug payment scheme(only have to pay 80 a month, anything over this is free). This will force massive outcry from the general public. You think of the grannies out there with massive medical expenses every month who will be forced to pay for everything now instead of the medical card paying it.

This is all due to the HSE dropping the payments they will make on drugs to pharmacies. The idea behind this is to force them to start using cheaper more generic drugs. Now imo if I have to take some sort of drug I'd rather the more expensive original one that works than a generic one which does pretty much the same thing just because its cheaper. And I'd guess most people would be the same. Pharmacists will know this and they will end up selling stuff at a loss.

Like others I cant believe the HSE has let it get this far but the IPU are right to fight them on it. They cant sell stuff at a loss

kev_s88 · 16-10-2007 01:03PM

do you really think a lack of methodone is gonna bother these junkbags???

NO... there just gonna go out and get whacked on something else like paint or white spirits!!! they'll always find a cheap alternative!!!

Dragan · 16-10-2007 01:09PM

I was actually listening to this in a taxi yesterday and i was fuming.

I'm real sorry, i understand that people get addicted to this and that, but please for the love of god **** off if you expect any pity because you can't get your government supplied fix for a problem that you create for yourself.

Being addicted to heroin is not a "disease" or an "illness", it is not something you are forced into nor is it a product of your upbringing and environment.

I have friends who had hard lives in some of the worst area's of Ireland and they are not junkies.

The weak will always latch on to an excuse for their problems and look for others to fix them.

NO methadone? Tough ****.

Alun · 16-10-2007 01:13PM

yom 1 wrote: »

The idea behind this is to force them to start using cheaper more generic drugs.

Quite right too. A chemical is a chemical regardless of what factory its made in.

Now imo if I have to take some sort of drug I'd rather the more expensive original one that works than a generic one which does pretty much the same thing just because its cheaper. And I'd guess most people would be the same.

I couldn't care less as long as it does the job. Which just goes to show what "most people" know.

the_syco · 16-10-2007 01:13PM

F**k the junkies. They're on it cos they want to get high. They can come off it, and be ok. Heck, they even GET A F**KING JOB.

You can die if you don't take your insulin, though.

Alun wrote: »

Quite right too. A chemical is a chemical regardless of what factory its made in.

I couldn't care less as long as it does the job. Which just goes to show what "most people" know.

A-grade drugs, and the sh|t that fails the quality tests are both made in the same factory. Doesn't mean that they'll both do the job.

Tigger · 16-10-2007 01:19PM

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

The country would be in uproar if it was insulin.

i don't understand the connection

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 16-10-2007 01:22PM

generic drugs are, in general just as good as the big name drugs. Doctors prescripe the big name drugs, because they get lovely dinners and nights away sponsored by the drug companies.

also, ifyou're that upset about junkies... don't drink any alcohol, don't smoke a fag and don't have any coffee for 2 months.. see what that does to you.

muppets.

robinph · 16-10-2007 01:23PM

rbd wrote: »

i don't understand the connection

It's a drug that is dished out for free and the price that the chemists are paid each time is probably affected by this change in the HSE rules as well so they could have picked insulin as the one to stop dispensing.

Wertz · 16-10-2007 01:24PM

The one thing I don't undertaand in all of this, is after watching interviews with ex-junkies on the news last night, I learned that this country's physeptone programme continues INDEFINITELY....guys in their 40s and 50s were talking about being on meth for 7 and 8 YEARS! I mean what the bloody f*ck?
From what I know of methadone, it's a heroin substitute intended for use as an aid to withdrawal, which can kill heroin addicts trying to go clean, and later on as a substitute to stop craving and relapse.....but 7 f*cking years?
I'm no doctor but I have to ask why aren't doses gradually lowered with an eye to eventually allowing the addict to become fully clean? As it stands now, they're just queuing up to get their fix just like they always did...the only difference being that they're not robbing someone and sticking a needle in their arm.
But that's neither here nor there....the issue at hand is that these people (let's not forget they ARE people) are being placed in a very bad situation through no direct fault of their own (ignoring the fact that they started taking heroin all those years ago)....the consequences range from someone being unable to go to their work (not all junkies are dole bums) to people relapsing and going back on the gear, with all the consequences that has for both them and society at large.

As usual the attitude on here (ah they're only scum, fcuk them) is probably indicative of what Joe Public is thinking out in celtic tiger land...what many of you don't realise is that the methadone programme is already underfnded and is neither widespread nor diverse enough to cope with the heroin problem countrywide. That is down to the HSE.
The blame for the current debacle however lies squarely at the door of the greedy pharmacists...there are plenty of other ways they could protest....this just gets them the most media attention and pisses off the fewest potential paying customers.

Yom1 wrote:

The idea behind this is to force them to start using cheaper more generic drugs. Now imo if I have to take some sort of drug I'd rather the more expensive original one

I'm sorry....what?
A generic drug merely means that it's not branded and is only cheaper due to lower licensing fees, lack of advertisment and promotion; it still does exactly what the branded one would do....why should the HSE and ultimately the taxpayer prop up already highly wealthy drug companies by continuing to pay over the odds when generic drugs do the exact same thing for less money?
If you want to pay for the branding then go right ahead, but you shouldn't expect to have the bill footed for your whim...

Degsy · 16-10-2007 01:25PM

Dragan wrote: »

I was actually listening to this in a taxi yesterday and i was fuming.

I'm real sorry, i understand that people get addicted to this and that, but please for the love of god **** off if you expect any pity because you can't get your government supplied fix for a problem that you create for yourself.

Being addicted to heroin is not a "disease" or an "illness", it is not something you are forced into nor is it a product of your upbringing and environment.

I have friends who had hard lives in some of the worst area's of Ireland and they are not junkies.

The weak will always latch on to an excuse for their problems and look for others to fix them.

NO methadone? Tough ****.

hence my off licencse analogy.I like having a drink every so often and i can stop whenever i feel like it.I dont however expect the taxpayer to fund my lifestyle by providing me with free cans for fear i wont be able to sleep at nights.Junkies are victims of thier own behaviour,nothing else.If they want to stop being junkies all they need to do is stop taking drugs.Simple as that.I dont give a shiit how "sick" they feel and how much they whinge that they "need" "thier" "phy".They dont need anything,they just think they do.There's a lot of people suffering genuine illness in this country who cant afford to go to the doctor or afford the medication,look at the woman who dies of bowel cancer because she had to wait for a procedure.Junkies cant wait ten minutes before they're bleating.

Tigger · 16-10-2007 01:26PM

Dragan wrote: »

I was actually listening to this in a taxi yesterday and i was fuming.

I'm real sorry, i understand that people get addicted to this and that, but please for the love of god **** off if you expect any pity because you can't get your government supplied fix for a problem that you create for yourself.

Being addicted to heroin is not a "disease" or an "illness", it is not something you are forced into nor is it a product of your upbringing and environment.

I have friends who had hard lives in some of the worst area's of Ireland and they are not junkies.

The weak will always latch on to an excuse for their problems and look for others to fix them.

NO methadone? Tough ****.

i was reading down this thread wondering where ireland had gone

good post Dargan

did anyone see the 9 o clock news to young men with their faces all blurry stating that if there was no methadone they will "rod so they can get heroin"

is robbing not illegal
is herion not illegal

also the pharamisists are not the only source of methadone

the customners can go to trinity house or some other state sponsered drug house

arrest them if they do crime then dont let drugs (or plasma tellies or sky or phones or budgies) in to the prisions

and why not

Tigger · 16-10-2007 01:28PM

Mordeth wrote: »

also, ifyou're that upset about junkies... don't drink any alcohol, don't smoke a fag and don't have any coffee for 2 months.. see what that does to you.

muppets.

i have its easy

and calling posters muppetts is just pointless

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 16-10-2007 01:29PM

don't be ridiculous wertz, people who take drugs aren't people.

oneeyedsnake · 16-10-2007 01:29PM

Mordeth wrote: »

also, ifyou're that upset about junkies... don't drink any alcohol, don't smoke a fag and don't have any coffee for 2 months.. see what that does to you.

Done that,don't see what the problem is.Muppet.Worthless junkies should be liquidated by the state in my opinion.

Degsy · 16-10-2007 01:36PM

rbd wrote: »

i was reading down this thread wondering where ireland had gone

good post Dargan

did anyone see the 9 o clock news to young men with their faces all blurry stating that if there was no methadone they will "rod so they can get heroin"

is robbing not illegal
is herion not illegal

also the pharamisists are not the only source of methadone

the customners can go to trinity house or some other state sponsered drug house

arrest them if they do crime then dont let drugs (or plasma tellies or sky or phones or budgies) in to the prisions

and why not

The pricks have it too easy.They're not man(or woman) enough to go through a bout of cold turkey and get themselves clean.Mountjoy is no deterent as its full of heroin as well as thier methadone program.Read any book about Irish prisoners:The Joy,Streetwise,The Junkyard and you will see that these people are getting spoonfed drugs no matter where they happen to be.They shouldnt be allowed to hold the taxpayer to ransom,either..cut off the methadone,give ten year sentences for robbery and lock them up in solitary till they sweat the drugs out of them.If they die in the process who gives a shiite?

Tigger · 16-10-2007 01:41PM

robinph wrote: »

It's a drug that is dished out for free and the price that the chemists are paid each time is probably affected by this change in the HSE rules as well so they could have picked insulin as the one to stop dispensing.

insulin is a medicine surley; for people unable to produce it correctly themselves

also its not needed to be taken on premises

as far as i'm concerened the pharmasists should not dispense methadone
it should be in clinics

the argument about the HSE on the 8-18% change is a different matter

if they want to discuss it they can its a group purchase scheme and as the biggest customer in many areas the HSE is entitiled to haggle

MzFusspot · 16-10-2007 01:43PM

Degsy wrote: »

Junkies are victims of thier own behaviour,nothing else.If they want to stop being junkies all they need to do is stop taking drugs.Simple as that.I dont give a shiit how "sick" they feel and how much they whinge that they "need" "thier" "phy".They dont need anything,they just think they do.There's a lot of people suffering genuine illness in this country .

Addiction is a genuine illness, hard and all as it is to be sorry for people who inflicted themselves with it. You've got a lot of truth in there though, all they need to do is stop. The problem is that it's not quite as easy as 'Do you know, I think I'm done with heroin! I don't need it, I just think I do!' or the same for drink, smokes, hiding in the bathroom eating Gateaux Swiss Rolls squeezed straight from the plastic etc. If it was we'd have an awful lot less of addicts of all forms knocking round the place. You can stop but you need an awful lot of help breaking the physical and mental addictions

No one's asking you to hug a junkie or take one in and detox them in your bathroom but a little empathy wouldn't hurt.

Wertz · 16-10-2007 01:51PM

rbd wrote: »

as far as i'm concerened the pharmasists should not dispense methadone
it should be in clinics

That's a very good point....methadone programmes have merely been outsourced to pharmacy shops by the HSE as a way to avoid them having to have dedicated clinics and staff. That's not to say that pharmacists don't make a good wage out of it (if they didn't why would they jeopardise potential business from "normal" customers whom 99% of probaly don't want to stand in the same shop as a heroin addict) but ultimately it's just another cost cutting excersise....soemthing the HSE seem to be good at in terms of patients; less so with their 20 layers of beauracracy...

Folks, how someone became a junkie isn't really up for discussion here....it's crying over spilt milk. The fact is that we have these dependant people and as degsy points out they can more or less hold us to ransom. The money spent to placate their addiction is small beans comapred to the financial costs of crime used to fund a habit and the money leaving the economy and pouring into some drug lord's pocket.
You can say "lock them up, let them die" and whatever, but we're a civilised society...as much as many peole might want to do that, we can't...

Analogies with drink aren't really applicable unless you're a chronic alcoholic....for most of these people meth doesn't even get them high; it just takes the edge off, kills the craving so they can try and get on with their day to day lives.

Savman · 16-10-2007 01:54PM

Dragan wrote: »

Being addicted to heroin is not a "disease" or an "illness", it is not something you are forced into nor is it a product of your upbringing and environment.

Maaaan you're out of touch. Upbringing is very much at the core of the issue. I've seen old school friends get led down the wrong road and turn into something resembling a zombie looking for brains. That is not the person they truly are and behind that junkie condition there was a real person once. One fella I know lost his mother at a very young age and ended up on heroin, went thru some very bad years as a junkie and is now out the other side, somehow still breathing.

I have friends who had hard lives in some of the worst area's of Ireland and they are not junkies.

ROFL!

The weak will always latch on to an excuse for their problems and look for others to fix them.

Yes they will oh strong mighty one :rolleyes:
The same could be said for people with addictions to gambling, alcohol, cigarettes etc.

NO methadone? Tough ****.

You dont have to have sympathy, that's probably expected for somebody as perfect as you, but without a full understanding of the whole situation neither you nor I nor anyone can really pass judgment on what is a very complicated problem.

Its a world none of us understand and "you always fear what you don't understand". That was in Batman Begins. Good movie.

Pharmacists not dispensing methadone to junkies.

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