9/11 - Not proud, but I'm becoming convinced

davork · 27-09-2007 07:06AM

i) The towers were not closed in the two weeks leading up to 9/11. We were working quite late (WTC 2, 58th flr) most nights leading up to it - heck Cantor Fitz were a 24 hour operation on the top of WTC 1 as were Eurobrokers a few floors below them

ii) The pure reason so many people survived were various including:
- The attacks came before most people were at work
- Survivors of the early attack in the '80's dragged all their workmates out 'for coffee' - and ignored the security guards who said to go back to their office (incl. my boss. Thank you Tony for that(!))
- The evacuation proceedures in place by some companies (esp. Morgan Stanley) saved their people

iii) My friends who died in the collapse have never come walking out of some cave

iv) There is no way demolition charges would have survived the heat generated by a full tank of lit aviation fuel incinerating them, heck my (mad) sister in law's husband (who does demolition for his job) wouldn't go near a fluster cuck like that to put charges in to demolish the building - I doubt saner people would either

v) as for the USAF getting to NYC - the nearest Air Force base is a good hour and change away *WHEN YOU ARE ON THE AIR* and as has been indicated, the US DOD have had (up til 9/11) a habit of watching for attacks from the outside in rather than something happening from the inside

humanji · 27-09-2007 10:55AM

whiterebel wrote:

He insured against loss of income as well, FYI, unheard of within the industry apparently, so while not profit it covered his losses waiting to rebuild.

Would it not be common sense for every company in the world to be insured against loss of income? I would of thought it'd standard

Jocksereire · 27-09-2007 01:00PM

meglome wrote:

Well yes I do believe it based on a good read of credible evidence.

Initially no one on the planes knew what was going to happen so they sat back. Funnily enough the last plane to crash ditched into a field once the passengers realised what was going to happen. This is also the reason many Americans and others won’t believe the official line, they just can't accept that a bunch of mere Arabs with box cutters could manage to do all this damage.

I saw a radar plot of the skies over American and Canada on 9/11. There were thousands of planes in the air at the time. So when the hijackers turned off the transponders it was extremely difficult to actually find the planes.

As has been pointed out many times American air defence looked outward. There was no official contact between civilian air traffic control and the air force. As far as I remember someone had to go get out the phone book and start ringing around to get the message through to the air force. The hijackers exploited the obvious inadequacies in American air traffic control and law enforcement agencies. All that time in the cave gave them plenty of time to think this through carefully… but it could have been stopped at several points if the Americans had actually followed up, shared info or were not inept.

Good lad. tell you what you continue to believe what you believe and ill continue to believe what i believe ok?

meglome · 27-09-2007 03:40PM

Jocksereire wrote:

Good lad. tell you what you continue to believe what you believe and ill continue to believe what i believe ok?

I love reading fiction... I mean I have a large book collection. In fact I love reading science fiction and again I've got a big sci-fi book/movie collection. I would love to believe that some of these great sci-fi stories in these books could happen or could exist but for the most part there is no credible evidence that they do or could. So while I'd dearly love that some of these things might happen I have to accept they most likely won't, based on the probabilities.

So to 9/11. I'm interested in the conspiracy theories, they make for good reading. But the simple fact is when you look at the evidence, not some of the fiction that is being called evidence, it is not very likely that it was a big conspiracy. Was there some cover-up, most likely there was but it was at worst the Americans covering up their own stupidity and not much more.

I’m always amazed at conspiracy theorists. You don’t get the fact I’ve looked at the credible evidence and come to the conclusion that most likely there is no big conspiracy. The important words here are ‘mostly likely’; I can’t know for a fact but looking at ALL the options it’s just not likely. I’m genuinely open to believe whatever is most probable. But the CT’s want to believe the conspiracy and even when the evidence your using to believe is shown to be flawed you just gloss over it. Believe it or not if someone pointed out with real evidence that I was incorrect in my views on 9/11 I would accept it, I would admit I was incorrect – I don’t have the slightest problem with that. I have no attachment to any one version over another but the CT’s are latched onto the big conspiracy and will not be budged no matter what's most likely.

Jocksereire · 27-09-2007 05:54PM

i dont read fiction and never have
as i stated already the OCT's (as ill call you since you call us CT's) you believe in the biggest most rediculous conspiracy of all time. im not getting into another boring tedious round and round we go discussion and i only ever really come in here any more to post in the links thread at the top of the board. Plenty there for you too look at and make your own mind up which you have and so have i. and to be honest i dont care at what you have or have not looked at.
it is so obvious the american government has lied about the events of 911 (The NTSB data release for example in the last documentary i posted is in complete conflict with the 911 comission report so who is lying there and why?). Now you believe its to cover up mistakes and stupidity i believe its to cover up a much more sinister elite group who have lied through their teeth since they have come into power and still we have people who will take their word on events.
Ill say it again we will agree to disagree on the events of that day. cheers

meglome · 27-09-2007 07:32PM

Jocksereire wrote:

i dont read fiction and never have

I think you'll find you've read quite a lot of fiction, it's just you accept it as fact.

Jocksereire wrote:

as i stated already the OCT's (as ill call you since you call us CT's) you believe in the biggest most rediculous conspiracy of all time.

You see this is the whole crux of the matter. I neither believe nor disbelieve any story I hear until I read into it and I am a sceptic just not paranoid. But my own personality will lead me to put a particular slant in any given situation before I hear all the facts, simple human nature. In this case I tried to keep an open mind and read up everything I could about it and when you look at the 'facts' from the CT's they just don't stand up to real scrutiny. It's not about sides for me other than in this case I don't believe the story one side is pushing.

Jocksereire wrote:

im not getting into another boring tedious round and round we go discussion

I agree and yet here I am. I think I go along with Bonkey on this one though, I really don't like disinformation dressed up as fact.

Jocksereire wrote:

it is so obvious the american government has lied about the events of 911 (The NTSB data release for example in the last documentary i posted is in complete conflict with the 911 comission report so who is lying there and why?).

I doubt there is any perfect version of events available to any of us. But I just can't see any possible way any government could get away with a conspiracy of this size. Simple logic nothing more or less. You are giving the governments of the world way more credit than they deserve for their cleverness. I wonder do you normally give governments credit for being so clever?

Now you believe its to cover up mistakes and stupidity i believe its to cover up a much more sinister elite group who have lied through their teeth since they have come into power and still we have people who will take their word on events.

All the so called evidence of this elite group really doesn't stand up. Other threads in here have gone through step by step why. I don't doubt for a second the arms industry in the US was delighted that there was going to be a war. But to organise this conspiracy just isn't possible on the scale it would need to be to make it possible. Bush is a complete asshole as far as I'm concerned but again are you saying his government was clever? I would have said quite the opposite has been proven time and again.

Ashla · 27-09-2007 08:13PM

oscarBravo wrote:

OK then: can you explain how two buildings that size were rigged for an unconventional demolition job without anyone noticing?

While you're at it, can you explain why planes needed to be involved at all? Why not just rig a conventional demolition job, and claim there was a truck bomb in the basement?

Well if there were no plains involved; who would have thought it was terrorists; No terrorists! well no objective; No new Disney terrorist laws for Bush to enforce;

Ashla · 27-09-2007 08:18PM

oscarBravo wrote:

How convenient.

WHO FOR YOU?

Ashla · 27-09-2007 08:42PM

oscarBravo wrote:

Trust me, as soon as someone points out a factual inaccuracy in something I've posted - with credible documentary evidence that convincingly demonstrates same - I'll admit that I was wrong.

Well here is another inaccuracy; as your on the subject; Maybe Those planes were illusion that hit the towers, perhaps a projector in the sky! thought about that one? just like they are going to fake an illusions alien invasion on earth within the next two or three years; called stars wars! With projectors.

I mean, when you watch these you tube movies, it just likes the plains are cutting butter! Imagine a BO7 hitting any where' It would take the ****ing top off anything; and look at the pentagon, no BO7 would fit in that rabbit hole!:D

Ashla · 27-09-2007 08:48PM

oscarBravo wrote:

That's why I'd distinguish between "proof" and proof.

Well you would;

Ashla · 27-09-2007 08:54PM

oscarBravo wrote:

Trust me, as soon as someone points out a factual inaccuracy in something I've posted - with credible documentary evidence that convincingly demonstrates same - I'll admit that I was wrong.[/QUOTE

I'D RATHER TRUST A BABOONNNNNN!:D

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 27-09-2007 08:56PM

nobody who grins that much can have anything worthwile to say

Ashla · 27-09-2007 09:11PM

Mordeth wrote:

nobody who grins that much can have anything worthwile to say

Well you certainly don't:D

Nick_oliveri · 27-09-2007 09:13PM

Ashla wrote:

Well here is another inaccuracy; as your on the subject; Maybe Those planes were illusion that hit the towers, perhaps a projector in the sky! thought about that one? just like they are going to fake an illusions alien invasion on earth within the next two or three years; called stars wars! With projectors.

Please dont start going on about Holograms. I beg you. Its the lowest of the low to say that those planes were projections or holograms. Its sickening, to say the least, and you will get nothing only ridicule for it. And it will be deserved.

Ashla · 27-09-2007 09:23PM

Nick_oliveri wrote:

Please dont start going on about Holograms. I beg you. Its the lowest of the low to say that those planes were projections or holograms. Its sickening, to say the least, and you will get nothing only ridicule for it. And it will be deserved.

So Telsa! You know it all? Well Excuse me;

Nick_oliveri · 27-09-2007 09:35PM

Ashla wrote:

So Telsa! You know it all? Well Excuse me;

Oh and i suppose you do. Right so, enlighten us on the evidence you have of teh lolograms on 9/11. Go on, make your own thread about it. We'll all have a great laugh.

Jocksereire · 27-09-2007 10:37PM

meglome wrote:

I think you'll find you've read quite a lot of fiction, it's just you accept it as fact.

i think youll find i dont need your patronising comments cheers.

You see this is the whole crux of the matter. I neither believe nor disbelieve any story I hear until I read into it and I am a sceptic just not paranoid. But my own personality will lead me to put a particular slant in any given situation before I hear all the facts, simple human nature. In this case I tried to keep an open mind and read up everything I could about it and when you look at the 'facts' from the CT's they just don't stand up to real scrutiny. It's not about sides for me other than in this case I don't believe the story one side is pushing.

Let me translate. I believe the governments conspiracy theory. You either believe them or you dont. They have either lied or they havent.

I agree and yet here I am. I think I go along with Bonkey on this one though, I really don't like disinformation dressed up as fact.

I doubt there is any perfect version of events available to any of us. But I just can't see any possible way any government could get away with a conspiracy of this size. Simple logic nothing more or less. You are giving the governments of the world way more credit than they deserve for their cleverness. I wonder do you normally give governments credit for being so clever?

All the so called evidence of this elite group really doesn't stand up. Other threads in here have gone through step by step why. I don't doubt for a second the arms industry in the US was delighted that there was going to be a war. But to organise this conspiracy just isn't possible on the scale it would need to be to make it possible. Bush is a complete asshole as far as I'm concerned but again are you saying his government was clever? I would have said quite the opposite has been proven time and again.

yak yak yak. enough as i said i dont really care what you have seen or not see as evidence, what you believe to be possible and impossible, who is stupid and who is not, what you class to be "simple logic" or how you have come to your conclusions so give it a rest will ya. you have stated what you believe now 4 times. i get the message mate

Ashla · 27-09-2007 11:10PM

Nick_oliveri wrote:

Oh and i suppose you do. Right so, enlighten us on the evidence you have of teh lolograms on 9/11. Go on, make your own thread about it. We'll all have a great laugh.

Well you seem to know it all, and have made it blatantly clear that' no one else should have an opinion.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 28-09-2007 12:25AM

there is a difference between having an opinion and saying that the planes that hit the twin towers were holograms.

Nick_oliveri · 28-09-2007 12:37AM

Mordeth wrote:

there is a difference between having an opinion and saying that the planes that hit the twin towers were holograms.

Indeed. It boggles the mind.

Asla wrote:

Well you seem to know it all, and have made it blatantly clear that' no one else should have an opinion.

Yes, no one should have an opinion... Mordeth, Bonkey, Jocks, meglome, humanji and you included. The conspiricy forum might end up as you would expect an American Line Dancing forum to end up, but at least my needs would be met.

Now, i want you to have an opinion on things... and yes i want you to have the right to express these opinions. But as i said earlier, dont expect to be taken seriously or not ridiculed when you bring these hologram "theories" to the table.

meglome · 28-09-2007 12:40AM

Jocksereire wrote:

i think youll find i dont need your patronising comments cheers.

It was meant more as a joke, wasn't trying to be patronising.

Jocksereire wrote:

yak yak yak. enough as i said i dont really care what you have seen or not see as evidence, what you believe to be possible and impossible, who is stupid and who is not, what you class to be "simple logic" or how you have come to your conclusions so give it a rest will ya. you have stated what you believe now 4 times. i get the message mate

Fair enough... I was under the impression that this was a place for debate and discussion but it turns out that it isn't. It seems to be the one place I've come across on boards.ie that people really don't want to hear other opinions. Which speaks volumes really.

Actually tell me something… why is it that conspiracy theorists want to hang out in a place where everyone agrees with them no matter how patently untrue or ridiculous the discussion is?

meglome · 28-09-2007 12:44AM

Ashla wrote:

Well here is another inaccuracy; as your on the subject; Maybe Those planes were illusion that hit the towers, perhaps a projector in the sky! thought about that one? just like they are going to fake an illusions alien invasion on earth within the next two or three years; called stars wars! With projectors.

I mean, when you watch these you tube movies, it just likes the plains are cutting butter! Imagine a BO7 hitting any where' It would take the ****ing top off anything; and look at the pentagon, no BO7 would fit in that rabbit hole!:D

I assume you were taking the weewee about the holograms? please tell me you were.

Jocksereire · 28-09-2007 01:56AM

meglome wrote:

It was meant more as a joke, wasn't trying to be patronising.

Fair enough... I was under the impression that this was a place for debate and discussion but it turns out that it isn't. It seems to be the one place I've come across on boards.ie that people really don't want to hear other opinions. Which speaks volumes really.

Actually tell me something… why is it that conspiracy theorists want to hang out in a place where everyone agrees with them no matter how patently untrue or ridiculous the discussion is?

mate what are you on about? i said about 3 times we agree to disagree. I also stated im not going into why i believe what i believe with you coz it just goes round in circles. This is a place for debate and discussion as you say but im dont want to do it all over again thats all. I have heard your opinion numerous times and made no attempt to change it and i just gave my opinion that i disagree.
Again you continue to call me a "conspiracy theorist". Do you acknowledge that in believing the US governments story you are yourself defending a conspiracy theory?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 28-09-2007 02:04AM

no, we're defending a theory about a conspiracy.... there's a difference

Kenners · 28-09-2007 02:25AM

Fact one: The tell-tale residue of termate is sulpher not copper and iron. Molten pools of metal cannot be explained by fire(even jet fuel fire) because the maximum possible tempeture for burning jet fuel is about 1000 degrees short of melting metal. Collapse by fire is a physical and chemical impossiblity.
Prof. steven jones has conclusively PROVED beyond doubt that termate was used to melt the metal by carrying out intensive non-partizan tests on metal that was taken from the site of the collapse. Needless to even bring up the hundreds of firefighters, law enforcement officers and first responders who reported Seeing explosive devices in the buildings and hearing multiple explosions BEFORE the planes hit!(William Rodriguez a 9-11 survivor tells of explosions before and after planes hit. Read!) you won't find this on fox news because mainstream media is controlled. http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/06/341238.shtml

Fact 2: Certain floors in the towers were closed off and had unusual construction going on. For two weeks before the attacks most floors were covered in a thick layer of dust and the noise was so bad that a british business man filed several complaints and was promptly told to shut up and mind his business. This is fact and part of the public record.

Fact 3: NORAD for the first time in it's history shut down for 1 hour 20 minutes on the day of 9-11 and funnily enough dick cheney was carrying out drills involving the EXACT senario of what was actually gonna happen(this also happened on 7-7 or the london train bombings) Terrorists in a cave couldn't make this happen...and by the way 7 of the 'terrorists' who were supposed to be on the planes turned up alive and well.

Fact 4: a lot of high profile people recieved anonymous warnings not to fly on the morning of 9-11. including mayor willie brown and salman rushdie

FACT 5:It's called a false flag op. If you don't believe that a government can carry something like this out think again. Hitler burned his own reichstag in order to usher in 'HOMELAND SECURITY' and 'DIRECTIVE 51'. Guess what! Bush has done exactly the same thing! Homeland security and Directive 51 stripping every american of their constitutional rights!
The bay of Tonkin incident which was used by the american government to justify the veitnam war: This has since been proven to have been a false flag op and is part of the public and historical record. A fact! They carried it out themselves and blamed the veitnamese. This is admitted!
Google 'Operation Northwoods'. Kennedy sacked nimitzer for proposing this.The list goes on and on! it's all documented historical fact. Several veteran CIA ops have questioned the 9-11 incident and stated that they believe it to be an inside job. FBI agents were warned not to interfere with
al'qaeda and it has since been proven that the pilots were CIA agents. Not a conspiracy and not hearsay but concrete FACT.
A certain FBI agent filed not one not two but 72 warnings of a major 'terrorist' event about to happen. He was ordered to shut up and stay away from the case. Do not interfere. This was an order signed by bush himself!
Pearl harbour was allowed to happen and indeed provoked to justify america entering world war 2. People this is admitted!!! It's not a conspiracy. It's historical record.

FACT 6: Buildings DO NOT under any circumstances at all collaspe symmetrically into their own footprints at free fall speed without the use of controlled demolitions END OF! Wake up for god's sake. It's not that difficult to understand!

I'm tired. I've waffled enough. There's too much to get in here. Look, watch
'zeitgeist' and check out ALEX JONES(he predicted 9-11 2 months before it happened. Not because he's psychic but because he was warned by highly placed people that something was about to happen and logically deduced it).Start with terrorstorm. then make your own mind up but be sure to check out the facts yourself so some educated idiot or a 'useful idiot' as lennon would say doesn't raise doubt with uniformed statements and pooh-pooh concrete facts and evidence and not a 'conspiracy Theory'.

PNAC is another good thing to google..especially since dick cheney stated in a PNAC document months before 9-11 that they needed a catalysing event such as a new pearl harbour to usher in anti-constitutional laws and controls.

Lastly, The BBC reported the collapse of building 7 25 minutes BEFORE it actually happened. In fact, the reporter is giving the detail of the collapse while building 7 can be seen still standing behind her. You can see this on you-tube.

Guys, hundreds and hundreds of people have been coming forward form high profile postitions to expose the lie with facts and eye-witness reports but they are being completely ignored by the mainstream media. FBI agents, Military, CIA, paramedics, firefighters, police officers and first responders all giving evidence which is being totally ignored.

for now, I'm gone. Peace.

Kenners · 28-09-2007 02:25AM

Fact one: The tell-tale residue of termate is sulpher not copper and iron. Molten pools of metal cannot be explained by fire(even jet fuel fire) because the maximum possible tempeture for burning jet fuel is about 1000 degrees short of melting metal. Collapse by fire is a physical and chemical impossiblity.
Prof. steven jones has conclusively PROVED beyond doubt that termate was used to melt the metal by carrying out intensive non-partizan tests on metal that was taken from the site of the collapse. Needless to even bring up the hundreds of firefighters, law enforcement officers and first responders who reported Seeing explosive devices in the buildings and hearing multiple explosions BEFORE the planes hit!(William Rodriguez a 9-11 survivor tells of explosions before and after planes hit. Read!) you won't find this on fox news because mainstream media is controlled. http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/06/341238.shtml

Fact 2: Certain floors in the towers were closed off and had unusual construction going on. For two weeks before the attacks most floors were covered in a thick layer of dust and the noise was so bad that a british business man filed several complaints and was promptly told to shut up and mind his business. This is fact and part of the public record.

Fact 3: NORAD for the first time in it's history shut down for 1 hour 20 minutes on the day of 9-11 and funnily enough dick cheney was carrying out drills involving the EXACT senario of what was actually gonna happen(this also happened on 7-7 or the london train bombings) Terrorists in a cave couldn't make this happen...and by the way 7 of the 'terrorists' who were supposed to be on the planes turned up alive and well.

Fact 4: a lot of high profile people recieved anonymous warnings not to fly on the morning of 9-11. including mayor willie brown and salman rushdie

FACT 5:It's called a false flag op. If you don't believe that a government can carry something like this out think again. Hitler burned his own reichstag in order to usher in 'HOMELAND SECURITY' and 'DIRECTIVE 51'. Guess what! Bush has done exactly the same thing! Homeland security and Directive 51 stripping every american of their constitutional rights!
The bay of Tonkin incident which was used by the american government to justify the veitnam war: This has since been proven to have been a false flag op and is part of the public and historical record. A fact! They carried it out themselves and blamed the veitnamese. This is admitted!
Google 'Operation Northwoods'. Kennedy sacked nimitzer for proposing this.The list goes on and on! it's all documented historical fact. Several veteran CIA ops have questioned the 9-11 incident and stated that they believe it to be an inside job. FBI agents were warned not to interfere with
al'qaeda and it has since been proven that the pilots were CIA agents. Not a conspiracy and not hearsay but concrete FACT.
A certain FBI agent filed not one not two but 72 warnings of a major 'terrorist' event about to happen. He was ordered to shut up and stay away from the case. Do not interfere. This was an order signed by bush himself!
Pearl harbour was allowed to happen and indeed provoked to justify america entering world war 2. People this is admitted!!! It's not a conspiracy. It's historical record.

FACT 6: Buildings DO NOT under any circumstances at all collaspe symmetrically into their own footprints at free fall speed without the use of controlled demolitions END OF! Wake up for god's sake. It's not that difficult to understand!

I'm tired. I've waffled enough. There's too much to get in here. Look, watch
'zeitgeist' and check out ALEX JONES(he predicted 9-11 2 months before it happened. Not because he's psychic but because he was warned by highly placed people that something was about to happen and logically deduced it).Start with terrorstorm. then make your own mind up but be sure to check out the facts yourself so some educated idiot or a 'useful idiot' as lennon would say doesn't raise doubt with uniformed statements and pooh-pooh concrete facts and evidence and not a 'conspiracy Theory'.

PNAC is another good thing to google..especially since dick cheney stated in a PNAC document months before 9-11 that they needed a catalysing event such as a new pearl harbour to usher in anti-constitutional laws and controls.

Lastly, The BBC reported the collapse of building 7 25 minutes BEFORE it actually happened. In fact, the reporter is giving the detail of the collapse while building 7 can be seen still standing behind her. You can see this on you-tube.

Guys, hundreds and hundreds of people have been coming forward form high profile postitions to expose the lie with facts and eye-witness reports but they are being completely ignored by the mainstream media. FBI agents, Military, CIA, paramedics, firefighters, police officers and first responders all giving evidence which is being totally ignored.

for now, I'm gone. Peace.

meglome · 28-09-2007 05:09AM

Ah bollocks I've managed to delete most of what I was typing I'm way too tired for this right now. Bonkey don't hesitate to help

But I will say, George Bush's government have been repeatedly shown to be pretty incompetent, they **** up at every turn. And yet we're expected to believe that they've also pulled off the greatest conspiracy in history. Seriously people. His government did jump on the bandwagon to bring in a load of new laws that they wouldn't have been able to otherwise but that's opportunism which his government is actually good at.

Why is it that you want to believe a relatively small number of people who see a conspiracy over the large number who don't?

BTW some of your 'facts' have been gone through in here before and have been shown to be either highly dubious or completely incorrect. That Alex Jones guy has been mostly discredited.

Every time I hear the words Black Flag I want to laugh it's just bordering on paranoia. Could they happen, sure. Do they happen as part of the great Zionist/NWO great world conspirancy... I think not.

You know the online videos that say the pentagon wasn't hit by a plane are what stick in my mind the most I think. A handful of people saying they didn't see a plane and there was no plane wreckage etc. But there were hundreds of people who actually saw a plane coming in. I've seen the footage of the wreckage and there were bits of engine and parts of plane with the AA logo on it. So the only conclusion you can come to is the online conspiracies are just not true. But it still persists because people refuse to believe the actual evidence and choose to believe amateur online video presentations. They want to believe the conspiracy over all common sense.

Bed now...

Dirty Dave · 28-09-2007 09:33AM

Kenners wrote:

Fact one: The tell-tale residue of termate is sulpher not copper and iron. Molten pools of metal cannot be explained by fire(even jet fuel fire) because the maximum possible tempeture for burning jet fuel is about 1000 degrees short of melting metal. Collapse by fire is a physical and chemical impossiblity.
Prof. steven jones has conclusively PROVED beyond doubt that termate was used to melt the metal by carrying out intensive non-partizan tests on metal that was taken from the site of the collapse. Needless to even bring up the hundreds of firefighters, law enforcement officers and first responders who reported Seeing explosive devices in the buildings and hearing multiple explosions BEFORE the planes hit!(William Rodriguez a 9-11 survivor tells of explosions before and after planes hit. Read!) you won't find this on fox news because mainstream media is controlled. http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/06/341238.shtml

Fact 2: Certain floors in the towers were closed off and had unusual construction going on. For two weeks before the attacks most floors were covered in a thick layer of dust and the noise was so bad that a british business man filed several complaints and was promptly told to shut up and mind his business. This is fact and part of the public record.

Fact 3: NORAD for the first time in it's history shut down for 1 hour 20 minutes on the day of 9-11 and funnily enough dick cheney was carrying out drills involving the EXACT senario of what was actually gonna happen(this also happened on 7-7 or the london train bombings) Terrorists in a cave couldn't make this happen...and by the way 7 of the 'terrorists' who were supposed to be on the planes turned up alive and well.

Fact 4: a lot of high profile people recieved anonymous warnings not to fly on the morning of 9-11. including mayor willie brown and salman rushdie

FACT 5:It's called a false flag op. If you don't believe that a government can carry something like this out think again. Hitler burned his own reichstag in order to usher in 'HOMELAND SECURITY' and 'DIRECTIVE 51'. Guess what! Bush has done exactly the same thing! Homeland security and Directive 51 stripping every american of their constitutional rights!
The bay of Tonkin incident which was used by the american government to justify the veitnam war: This has since been proven to have been a false flag op and is part of the public and historical record. A fact! They carried it out themselves and blamed the veitnamese. This is admitted!
Google 'Operation Northwoods'. Kennedy sacked nimitzer for proposing this.The list goes on and on! it's all documented historical fact. Several veteran CIA ops have questioned the 9-11 incident and stated that they believe it to be an inside job. FBI agents were warned not to interfere with
al'qaeda and it has since been proven that the pilots were CIA agents. Not a conspiracy and not hearsay but concrete FACT.
A certain FBI agent filed not one not two but 72 warnings of a major 'terrorist' event about to happen. He was ordered to shut up and stay away from the case. Do not interfere. This was an order signed by bush himself!
Pearl harbour was allowed to happen and indeed provoked to justify america entering world war 2. People this is admitted!!! It's not a conspiracy. It's historical record.

FACT 6: Buildings DO NOT under any circumstances at all collaspe symmetrically into their own footprints at free fall speed without the use of controlled demolitions END OF! Wake up for god's sake. It's not that difficult to understand!

I'm tired. I've waffled enough. There's too much to get in here. Look, watch
'zeitgeist' and check out ALEX JONES(he predicted 9-11 2 months before it happened. Not because he's psychic but because he was warned by highly placed people that something was about to happen and logically deduced it).Start with terrorstorm. then make your own mind up but be sure to check out the facts yourself so some educated idiot or a 'useful idiot' as lennon would say doesn't raise doubt with uniformed statements and pooh-pooh concrete facts and evidence and not a 'conspiracy Theory'.

PNAC is another good thing to google..especially since dick cheney stated in a PNAC document months before 9-11 that they needed a catalysing event such as a new pearl harbour to usher in anti-constitutional laws and controls.

Lastly, The BBC reported the collapse of building 7 25 minutes BEFORE it actually happened. In fact, the reporter is giving the detail of the collapse while building 7 can be seen still standing behind her. You can see this on you-tube.

Guys, hundreds and hundreds of people have been coming forward form high profile postitions to expose the lie with facts and eye-witness reports but they are being completely ignored by the mainstream media. FBI agents, Military, CIA, paramedics, firefighters, police officers and first responders all giving evidence which is being totally ignored.

for now, I'm gone. Peace.

Writing the word "fact" at the start or end of a statement does not make it one - FACT!

humanji · 28-09-2007 09:50AM

Well, Kenners, apart from the majority of what your saying already being confirmed as innacurate or false, as Meglome said, this bit stood out for me:

Kenners wrote:

FACT 6: Buildings DO NOT under any circumstances at all collaspe symmetrically into their own footprints at free fall speed without the use of controlled demolitions END OF! Wake up for god's sake. It's not that difficult to understand!

Skyscrapers are designed to collapse in on themselves. The Japanese create that techniques years ago because to have a skyscrapper topple over in a city would do untold damage. But, of course you don't care. You have your theories, and logic and evidence don't come into it. :rolleyes:

humanji · 28-09-2007 09:56AM

Ashla wrote:

Well if there were no plains involved; who would have thought it was terrorists; No terrorists! well no objective; No new Disney terrorist laws for Bush to enforce;

Considering terrorists bombed the WTF before, it would be the first thought that came to everyones mind.

9/11 - Not proud, but I'm becoming convinced

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