Client not high enough on google

dbnavan · 15-08-2007 04:44PM #1

I designed a website [link removed] but the owner is complaining that he is well below his main compition on google. I have properly enter all meta tags etc,

Has anyone else come up against this type of problem?

forbairt · 15-08-2007 04:50PM

dbnavan wrote:

I designed a website [link removed] but the owner is complaining that he is well below his main compition on google. I have properly enter all meta tags etc,

Has anyone else come up against this type of problem?

probably every developer to have created a website

Its called Search Engine Optimization and you'll want to check it out in LOTS and LOTS of detail or refer your client to someone doing it professionally ...

Its not something you can just jump into and it can take a good while to get your site up there ... I'm no expert .. I try .. and I'm familar with a lot of the techniques but you'll have to spend a fair bit of time on this to get it right ..

BTW .. they really wanted ASS as their logo ???

dbnavan · 15-08-2007 04:57PM

forbairt wrote:

BTW .. they really wanted ASS as their logo ???

Your definatly not the first to ask me this and you wont be the last but yes it is their logo, of which I have nothing to do with,

I have looked into the SEO, and done alot with meta tags etc, as you will probably see for the page source.

Ph3n0m · 15-08-2007 05:51PM

I suggest you read this article:

http://www.redcardinal.ie/search-engine-optimisation/19-10-2006/10-steps-to-getting-into-google-and-staying-there/

fintan · 16-08-2007 07:19AM

I just checked google and yahoo, you don't seem to have a links to your website from other related websites.

If you want to do better in Google, you need to start getting some in-bound links.

A good Irish resource is www.IrishWebMasterForum.com

nikimere · 16-08-2007 10:10AM

dbnavan wrote:

I have looked into the SEO, and done alot with meta tags etc, as you will probably see for the page source.

META tags mean pretty much shag all in Google.
You might want to "look into" it a bit more...
The site also isn't WC3 compliant which also wont help.
SEO is a massive can of worms, and you can sometimes spend longer on SEO than you do developing the actual site.

matt-dublin · 16-08-2007 02:36PM

You need to get rid of your tables and replace them with divs,

ALso keyword placement.

The only meta tag that google looks at is description

Validate all of your code against the w3.org html validator

More use of alt tags in images.

Submit your website to google, yahoo and msn, and other web directories such as dmoz and browse ireland etc etc

get rid of all the flash and replace it with images and text

RedCardinal · 17-08-2007 03:12AM

I think the best piece of advice is to get good editorial links from thematically similar sites.

Sorry to burst a few bubbles here, but standards compliant markup and submitting to Search Engines wont make much difference at all. Search engines prefer natural discovery (via links), and unless your markup sends the bots into a loop you'll likely get little benefit from compliant code. That's not to say that semantic coding wont help...

glengara · 20-08-2007 10:58AM

IMO you may need to first "fix" the site, EG none of your "We Repair" pages show up:

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:PruBRSx3ZDsJ:www.autosmartsystems.ie/+&hl=en&gl=ie&strip=1

They need to be linked "properly" and I'd have a separate page for each service with plenty of service specific informational text.

Also think the guys need to research what keywords are best to target, I'd go to G.co.uk and see what the competition is doing in both "normal" results and AdWords.

seo-ireland · 20-08-2007 07:01PM

Yes inbound links are the most important factor in rankings but not just any type of links, links from similar themed sites work best. So links from other automotive-themed sites and getting listed in automotive categories of major directories like Yahoo Directory and DMOZ would be a great start. Also a link-building tactic that works great is writing a few articles (for example tips about car repair) and submitting them to large article submission sites like Ezinearticles and Isnare. The idea behind this is that an owner of automotive-themed site may want to reprint your article complete with the link back to your website. Link gold!

Best of luck!

BTW the "A.S.S at Work" menu link made me giggle

Bananna man · 21-08-2007 06:58PM

If you really want to get into SEO id recommend www.seobook.com. The book he sells covers everything you could possibly need to know and the blog keeps you up to date.

SEO takes a lot of time and effort. If they really want to place well in google they can expect to pay a good bit for it and wait a good few months..... at least!!

tricky D · 21-08-2007 08:19PM

You need to use a lot more text with keywords and use headings and strong tags correctly. Lose the Flash stuff. The 'We Repair' things should be pages in their own right with text and bigger before and after pics. The current ones don't show enough detail. The links to these pages can easily be text.

Get Links
There are only 3 external links to the site listed in altavista. ( http://www.altavista.com/web/results?itag=ody&q=link%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.autosmartsystems.ie&kgs=1&kls=0 ) There are none listed by Google ('Links' near the bottom http://www.google.ie/advanced_search?hl=en ). Check out Google Webmaster Tools ( ). I haven't done seo in a few years so I haven't used it myself but it looks good. You need to roll up your sleeves and go get links from directories, auto listing sites, forums, etc, then submit them, not your site, to the search engines. The more links picked up means better rank. Don't use the ''submit to 1000 search engines' things.

Analyse your logs to figure out how and from where visitors get to the site and to find more inbound links to submit to the engines.

hth
\r

glengara · 22-08-2007 06:19PM

Altavista?!!

You have been away... :-)

CptSternn · 23-08-2007 09:07AM

Because so many dodgy webmasters were using tricks to get their sites moved higher, there is very little you can actually do these days to get a high ranking in any search engine. Good coding techniques, and proper (limited) meta-tags do help, but are by no means the final word and even then will not get you high rankings.

The only way to ensure high rankings is to bring in traffic, and have many outside sites link to your site. All major search engines use those two factors to place sites in the rankings more than anything else.

grahamor · 23-08-2007 07:25PM

Bananna man wrote:

If you really want to get into SEO id recommend www.seobook.com.

Thanks for the link, i just purchased this book. I have only read the first 15 pages and i have already learned some new tips/ techniques.

Seachmall · 23-08-2007 11:34PM

There was a SEO special of .NET awhile ago (May?) where they went into the workings of google. Its currently sold out (suprise, suprise...) and not available for back-ordering but if you can get one, go for it. I missed my copy as they flew off the shelfs but perhaps someone else got a copy and would like to share insider info?

Also, I love the 'ASS at work' link. You should have called the 'Fun Stuff' link 'ASS having fun':p
The jokes are endless...

tomED · 24-08-2007 08:27AM

CptSternn wrote:

Because so many dodgy webmasters were using tricks to get their sites moved higher, there is very little you can actually do these days to get a high ranking in any search engine.

There's a lot you can do to get high rankings in search results. Just look at what RedCardinal has been saying, and take a look at the link posted.

CptSternn wrote:

The only way to ensure high rankings is to bring in traffic, and have many outside sites link to your site. All major search engines use those two factors to place sites in the rankings more than anything else.

Search engines would certainly use the link factor, but the traffic one is irrelevant.

Key point is that you weren't paid to get the site to the top of the search results, so don't let your client push you around. There's a lot of work in getting a site to the top of the search results, so you should be charging extra for this service.

glengara · 24-08-2007 09:58AM

"..so you should be charging extra for this service."

There's enough clueless designers offering SEO services without encouraging total newbies to jump on that bandwagon, IMO.......

matt-dublin · 24-08-2007 10:02AM

glengara wrote:

"..so you should be charging extra for this service."

There's enough clueless designers offering SEO services without encouraging total newbies to jump on that bandwagon, IMO.......

Yes,

newbs shouldn't charge for it, but they should still try and do it, and when they get good on it they then can charge for it.

tomED · 24-08-2007 10:12AM

glengara wrote:

"..so you should be charging extra for this service."

There's enough clueless designers offering SEO services without encouraging total newbies to jump on that bandwagon, IMO.......

Well firstly, he's already looking for ways to improve his clients search results, so he should be charging for the time he is investing in this task that is unrelated to his initial project scope.

I think it's only fair that he can jump on the bandwagon, everyone's got start somewhere. I'd actually prefer to see more designers take interest in SEO, because I think if all websites were properly configured for search engine rankings and showing their clients that they could actually achieve something with their website, it would help the web design industry as a whole.

The issue is really making sure that designers aren't doing this work for free!

matt-dublin · 24-08-2007 10:27AM

well there's that too, because if someone's doing it for free, we're losing money! :P

tomED · 24-08-2007 10:30AM

matt-dublin wrote:

well there's that too, because if someone's doing it for free, we're losing money! :P

Well that plus the fact that it devalues the work we are doing too!

glengara · 24-08-2007 10:47AM

"I'd actually prefer to see more designers take interest in SEO.."

I'd be happy if they familiarised themselves with what will get indexed and what will not, and without charging for SEO services :-)

tomED · 24-08-2007 10:51AM

glengara wrote:

I'd be happy if they familiarised themselves with what will get indexed and what will not, and without charging for SEO services :-)

Why? So you can keep all the SEO to yourself?

In my opinion most decent web designers will already know the basics of SEO and how search engines work. And most do this with all sites they develop.

nice1franko · 24-08-2007 11:03AM

tell him its a whooooooooole other ball game. tell him he has to get links with other businesses. something that HE has to do with his business contacts.

then tell him he can pay, say, a max of 10 dollas a month for google ads. site comes out on top of searches and he can work on getting the links in the mean time.

gotts ta love the long finger. quick n easy.

glengara · 24-08-2007 11:26AM

"In my opinion most decent web designers will already know the basics of SEO and how search engines work."

You must mean meta-tags :-)

tomED · 24-08-2007 11:29AM

glengara wrote:

"In my opinion most decent web designers will already know the basics of SEO and how search engines work."

You must mean meta-tags :-)

ehh no. You must have very little faith in web design companies....

matt-dublin · 24-08-2007 11:37AM

glengara wrote:

"In my opinion most decent web designers will already know the basics of SEO and how search engines work."

You must mean meta-tags :-)

the only meta tage google uses is description.

and i believe yahoo doesn't use it anymore either.

glengara · 24-08-2007 11:42AM

Very little faith Tom ;-)

There are exceptions but IMO most see SEO as a necessary evil and resent having their "creativity" shackled by search engine limitations.

And also hate hearing clients ask "so how will the site do on Google?" :-)

dbnavan · 24-08-2007 11:44AM

Thanks all lots of good info and debate here, what I should say on the whole debate of newbies charging.....I think any work done that increases value of a service or someones business should be paid for. Put it this way Guy comes to me and says I want to be top of google, I go away read books, research, talk to people, get advice, and do the job 3 months later he is top of google. Now no I charge him for all the time spent but yes I should charge the same as the next bloke cause I have provided a service that he choose to assign to me. Any way what is a SEO "professional", I ha-vent seen any degrees in SEO?

tomED · 24-08-2007 01:22PM

glengara wrote:

Very little faith Tom ;-)

There are exceptions but IMO most see SEO as a necessary evil and resent having their "creativity" shackled by search engine limitations.

And also hate hearing clients ask "so how will the site do on Google?" :-)

Well you've obviously haven't dealt with any of the decent web designers...

Client not high enough on google

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