Champions League Quarter Finals Leg 1

fade2black · 04-04-2007 10:43PM

Stekelly wrote:

Your complaining about people blaming Utd fans when they werent there to witness, yet Utd fans, who werent there, are blaming the police and/or Roma fans.

No...not people...nipplenuts. I'm presuming he wasn't there. If he was sure I'll send him a hallmark apology card.

LostinBlanch · 04-04-2007 10:46PM

Stekelly wrote:

As opposed to all the Utd fans above posting from the airport on their way home from the ground?

No, how about the BBC reporter who was on his mobile in the United end? He got there 2 hours before ko and got a belt for his troubles... mate of his got hit with what looked like a baseball bat.... Roma fans charging barrier.... cops running in indiscriminately "clearing" united fans out of the way..

Even Alan Green had to shut up with his bitter ABU rants for once (thank God for small mercies).

eirebhoy · 04-04-2007 10:54PM

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Have to say I agree with Townsend.
Totti is grossly overrated.
He was almost playing in front of his own back 4 tonight.

That's the player he is, he's unique. imo there's no player in the world with a better range of passing but most matches his pass success rate wouldn't be far off 50%. That's just his style. There's no way on earth it'd be acceptable in the premiership though.

I just can't stand that rubbish about him not doing it when it matters. Serie A matters just as much as the premiership.

smemon · 04-04-2007 11:13PM

i've no problem with utd fans getting beaten around the place by the police, so long as the same happens the roma fans.

But it didn't. unarmed stewards kept back the roma fans, trigger happy italian riot police kept back the utd fans. Bit of a difference.

I'm pretty sure utd fans weren't all innocent, so i can understand were the abu's are coming from. But you can't defend the roma fans or police.

If myself and a foreigner were to have a fight in the middle of town, we'd both be arrested. The guards wouldn't just arrest the foreigner because he's foreign. It's discrimination.

It also lets me off scott free and shows that i can do it again and get away..It's because i'm of irish blood, i can do no wrong..

that's EXACTLY what has happened with the Utd /Roma fans.

BKtje · 04-04-2007 11:13PM

You've got to take into account how the whole football scene is in Italy after that policeman was killed. They shut down the games for 2 weeks and quite clearly aren't going to take anymore ****e regarding behaviour at matches.

So instead of going at the italian fans who were to blame before for the policemans death and the initial trouble tongiht, they instead go for the weaker in number away fans who (stupidly) reacted to taunting and missiles. Was watching Sky sports analysis and they showed the reactions of both crowds after each goal. While the Man u fans didn't do themselves any favours they definately weren't worse than the italians. Personally seems like the police did the cowardly act and took the easy option.

Onto the game.
When Scholes got sent off i feared the worst and after the (albeit very lucky in the end) goal they scored i was expecting a 2 or 3-0. One thing i kept in the back of my mind the whole time that an away goal would level it for the second leg (even if Roma got a second, which they did). Overall i wasn't overly impressed with Roma. They started very well indeed but almost always resorted to long shots or crossing poorly as the game went on. They had a couple decent half chances too but vs ten men they really should have done better.
I'm confident Man u will go through

(i think we need a few of those ballboys for stan

)

dubmick · 04-04-2007 11:17PM

Fighting Irish wrote:

I've said it before and i'll say it again, Saha should not be playing for United

I agree with you 100%

madds · 04-04-2007 11:18PM

Video of the cops laying into the United fans here. That's Gary Bailey saying someone should take the video and sue the cop who beats the united fan with his baton about 10 times...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1mnkk_crowd-fights

therecklessone · 04-04-2007 11:21PM

cson wrote:

You've got to take into account how the whole football scene is in Italy after that policeman was killed. They shut down the games for 2 weeks and quite clearly aren't going to take anymore ****e regarding behaviour at matches. And that more or less goes for all continental europe.

While I don't condone what the Italian police did, that ****e has to cut out completely from the game or something similar to Heysel could possibly happen again.

This isn't the first time Roman police have behaved like animals towards English fans. Last year, Middlesbrough fans were treated disgracefully by them, so much so that the Chairman of the Cleveland Police (who attended as a fan) ended up speaking to a sitting of the European Parliament about the treatment they received source

I'm off to Seville for the UEFA Cup tie tomorrow and we're all on high alert after Tottenham's last foray into Spanish territory was met by an over the top reaction from the Spanish police. They are very reluctant to host us as its a major festival in the city, and we expect the slightest step out of line will be met by boots and batons.

Some video from tonight's terrace action Not for the squeamish, and NSFW

eirebhoy · 04-04-2007 11:30PM

B-K-DzR wrote:

Overall i wasn't overly impressed with Roma. They started very well indeed but almost always resorted to long shots or crossing poorly as the game went on. They had a couple decent half chances too but vs ten men they really should have done better.
I'm confident Man u will go through

Mexes thinks Lyon are better than Utd: “I’d say Lyon were a better side. Even if they weren’t in the best form of the season, they are a more quality side overall,”

Roma tonight were 10 times better than they were at home to Lyon but they're more an away team. They only player I worry about is Ronaldo. Without him I don't think United would stand a chance.

besty · 04-04-2007 11:32PM

Scandalous scenes in the stands tonight. Utterly shameful stuff.

Regarding the on pitch action, I thought United were lucky to get away with 2-1 and an away goal. Scholes' dismissal was a real hammer blow so early on and was really stupid behaviour from such an experienced player. Back at Old Trafford, I'm confident that we'll have enough to score 2. Although Chivu and Mexes were impressive tonight, Ronaldo, Rooney, Giggs and Saha at full tilt should be potent enough going forward.

madds · 04-04-2007 11:38PM

Thought Heinze and O'Shea were brutal tonight. Heinze really is a shadow of his former self...both of them looked 2 yards off the pace. Where the hell is Evra? Wes Brown was immense.

Will be a different story at OT.

MisterAnarchy · 04-04-2007 11:42PM

eirebhoy wrote:

Roma tonight were 10 times better than they were at home to Lyon but they're more an away team. They only player I worry about is Ronaldo. Without him I don't think United would stand a chance.

Romas's away form in the CL hasnt been too great bar the Lyon result which flattered them to be honest.
Uniteds away form has been disgraceful to say the least .

Dave! · 04-04-2007 11:45PM

fade2black wrote:

I'll tell ya....Italy is one fucked up country.

Indeed. I thought it was quite comical reading a recent quote from Totti,

He added: "I don't like the way English football is even if some great players play there.

"I don't like English football and I don't like England either because of the weather."

He much prefers Italian football, with the mafia and match fixing, and the hooligans murdering police officers! F*cking gem.

At least it's warm :rolleyes:

Just watched that video, disgraceful stuff. One of the fans must have been hit about 20 times in the head.

eirebhoy · 04-04-2007 11:56PM

therecklessone wrote:

Some video from tonight's terrace action Not for the squeamish, and NSFW

Nothing to do with the disgraceful beating but why do most United travelling fans never wear colour? A lot of them just look like trouble makers tbh.

http://i7.tinypic.com/2rnkndl.jpg

Wear your teams colours, sing a few songs and have a party.

On the video, what was the guy in the shirt doing? Mad man charging at Italian police like that.

eirebhoy · 05-04-2007 12:53AM

PORNAPSTER wrote:

What exactly did the United fans do that was worse than Roma fans? Who got beaten up by police? United fans.

As far as I could see from BBC news the seats were the beatings took place were all cordoned off anyway. They shouldn't have ran over to that area and try to break through a barrier. Ok, Roma fans were equally at fault but you shouldn't want those types of fans at Man Utd matches anyway.

Here's a different camera angle to the one posted above:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,30100-footy_2100,00.html

The area where the police are was an area that fans shouldn't have been.

Also, imagine the trouble if they actually broke the fence down.

Nunu · 05-04-2007 01:31AM

Fighting Irish wrote:

I've said it before and i'll say it again, Saha should not be playing for United

And Fletcher isn't too far behind him

Great contribution to the thread mate:rolleyes:

Is that all you ever have to say? He plays 15 minutes after a month out and you're on his back again. Have you been counting down the days for his return, so you can reiterate the fact you don't rate him.....again:D

There was a lot of talk on RTE about how brave Ferguson was by leaving his attacking players on when down to 10 men. Well, yes and no as far as I'm concerned. I mean who was this defensive minded player to spring from the bench. There were no defenders there and fletcher is just back from injury. The others were all strikers Dong, Smith and Saha. One thing it did confirm is that Fergie does not trust/rate Richardson. He could have been brought on to bolster the middle, yet although fully fit didn't even get a run out.

PHB · 05-04-2007 02:03AM

Some video from tonight's terrace action Not for the squeamish, and NSFW

I think if anything happens to Man Utd fans, United will step in and take action against that sort of police action.

How can you judge Saha by the last 20 minutes of a game when he was coming back from injury? That's just stupid. And if you are going to say, well I judged him before, if thats the case, why bother relating it to this thread? Just a silly comment.

In terms of the match, with the weakened squad we have, I would have taken a score draw. After the Scholes sending off, 2-1 is a great result imo. Ronaldo was the United MOM again, top class performance from him. Notice Giles ignored the stuff he says about him, doesn't praise him at all, despite him being the best United player out there by a mile, and really being incredible, hell even the Roma players praised him.
Fair dues to Fergie for leaving on the attackers, ballsy, but worth it. The away goal is key.

Scholes was just silly, does he miss one or two matches in Europe now, I think its two.

They will come to United now, who will have Evra/Fletcher/Park/Saha back in the squad.
People are saying Roma will hit us on the break, but they were hitting us on the break during this match, as United did not sit back and defend, and we still got through it fairly well.
We need to win 1-0 at Old Trafford, something we are well capable of doing.
I think to an extent, Roma didn't capitalise on their chance as well as they could have, and I think United will punish them for it. I think United will get through, I wasn't that impressed with Roma at all to be honest. They beat us when we went down to ten, but when we had 11 on the pitch, they didn't look like they were going to score at all.

Zebra3 · 05-04-2007 05:43AM

B-K-DzR wrote:

So instead of going at the italian fans who were to blame before for the policemans death and the initial trouble tongiht, they instead go for the weaker in number away fans who (stupidly) reacted to taunting and missiles.

I'd say the fans to blame for the death of the policeman a few weeks ago were sitting at home in Sicily watching the match on tv. :rolleyes:

http://football.guardian.co.uk/championsleague200607/story/0,,2050526,00.html

Anyway, the trouble last night should (hopefully) sound the deathknell for Italy's Euro2012 hopes. And with a bit of luck Man U will be kicked out of Europe for their fans causing trouble on their travels again.

Fingers crossed for both.

therecklessone · 05-04-2007 07:13AM

eirebhoy wrote:

Nothing to do with the disgraceful beating but why do most United travelling fans never wear colour? A lot of them just look like trouble makers tbh.

Perhaps because wearing your team colours on away trips in the PL can lead to you getting your head kicked in? At best you'll be refused entry to a lot of pubs...

super_furry · 05-04-2007 07:14AM

I'd never go to an away game in Italy - sadly it's just asking for trouble. Their fans are lunatics, habitually attacking and stabbing opposing fans, their Ultras hold huge sway over the clubs and they are never really punished for the continuing violence at their games. Italian police are just itching for a fight and will use the smallest excuse to wade in and crack skulls.

Mitch Connor · 05-04-2007 07:26AM

well, as a united supporter the game was disappointing for all reasons.

The business with the fans is most disappointing though.

I will not condone the initial reaction of the United fans to the provocation of the Roma fans, theey crossed the police line to get to the barrier, it was stupid. However, the manner of the Italian riot police response was disgusting - not only did the beat anything that moved and had an english accent, regardless of them being prone on the ground at the time, they did absolutely nothing about the Roma fans on the other side of the barrier, who were far more aggresive and provocational - along with the fact they hurled several missiles into the united area (some of which were stupidly thrown back later on)

What annoys me the most about it is that, yet again, Uefa are ready to blame the english. United fans got blamed for the violence at Lens, when to anyone that looked at the video footage and read the accounts it was clear the policing on that occasion was aggressive, violent, disproportionate and dangerous (United fans being beaten til they ran away from the stadium, only to get beaten by the line of riot police til they ran back up to the stadium to get a beating of the first lot again)

But, it is oh so easy to blame the english. The United fans that traveled know this, and shouldn't have reacted, but the response to their reaction was over-the-top and a disgrace - games should not be allowed to be policed like that. Anyone who knows anythign about crowd control knows that is not how to deal with the situation that arose, but then the G8 summit and protests showed the Italian police love a good fight, and aren't afraid of injury people regardless of what they have, or have not done.

Mitch Connor · 05-04-2007 07:32AM

eirebhoy wrote:

Nothing to do with the disgraceful beating but why do most United travelling fans never wear colour? A lot of them just look like trouble makers tbh.

http://i7.tinypic.com/2rnkndl.jpg

Wear your teams colours, sing a few songs and have a party.

On the video, what was the guy in the shirt doing? Mad man charging at Italian police like that.

Fans were advised not to wear their team colours on this trip - because of the Roma Ultra's party piece - coming up on scooters behind away supporters in the street, and stabbing them - as happened to too many boro fans last year, and arsenal fans a few years before. The Roma Ultras (well, nearly all Ultras of any italian team) are violent scum who shouldn't have a place in football, but are actively encouraged by the actions of their club and inaction of the governing bodies.

super_furry · 05-04-2007 07:43AM

Don't forget this either http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/1694824.stm

I was at that game at I'll never, ever go back to Italy for a football match. Their fans should be locked up. It happens at every single European game in Rome (Middlesbrough and Leeds got the same treatment, with fans being stabbed) and Italian clubs should seriously be kicked out of Europe - from corrupt clubs to murdering policemen to throwing motorbikes from the stands, Italian football is corrupt from top to bottom.

Just FYI -

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=388863&&cc=5739

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/16/nstab16.xml

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/world/2004-09-21-europe-roundup_x.htm

http://msn.skysports.com/skysports/article/0,,7-1103110,00.html

http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/02/16/story4194.asp

cournioni · 05-04-2007 08:10AM

eirebhoy wrote:

Nothing to do with the disgraceful beating but why do most United travelling fans never wear colour? A lot of them just look like trouble makers tbh.

http://i7.tinypic.com/2rnkndl.jpg

Wear your teams colours, sing a few songs and have a party.

On the video, what was the guy in the shirt doing? Mad man charging at Italian police like that.

They don't wear United shirts because on their anti-Glazier stance. They boycott all United sponsors and merchandise because of it. Add that to the fact that they were asked not to wear their colours in Rome and that should flush your theory down the drain.

I'm pretty sure that chair was thrown after the police started beating United fans, you can actually see it on the sky news footage linked here somewhere.

United fans were wrong to run towards the barrier, as much as the Roma fans were. But the police handling of it was absolutely disgraceful. I was speaking to one of my mates that was at the game and he said that they were treated like animals even before the incidents.

dr.bollocko · 05-04-2007 08:17AM

The scenes from inside the stadium as shown on sky sports and the links above are just shocking.
Some really brutal, hard to watch fare there.
Even on Sky news they noticed how the Roma fans on one side of the fence were delicately ushered away by stewards, whilst the Utd fans were knocked ****e out of by the over-zealous police.
I can't see how anyone can blame Utd fans for that at all. It was just police brutality. Look at the way they moved in on the attack, smacking out at anyone in their way. Look at the videos and see the fans cowering in fear, curled up bleeding on the floor, still getting beaten. See the fans trapped trying to get away from the police because they know they will get a thump just for being nearby. That sort of total over-reaction by the police has marred what was an exciting game.

Pighead · 05-04-2007 08:17AM

eirebhoy wrote:

Roma tonight were 10 times better than they were at home to Lyon but they're more an away team.

Wouldn't agree with that. Their away form in the league has been average at best and they've only won 2 of their last 11 away games. In the group stages of the Champions Leagues they lost to both Valencia and Shaktar Donetsk and their only away win came in *******kos.

Last night was an opportunity lost for Roma. 2-0 or 3-1 and United would have been all but out but at 2-1 you'd have to say its Advantage United.

super_furry · 05-04-2007 08:19AM

Pighead wrote:

Last night was an opportunity lost for Roma. 2-0 or 3-1 and United would have been all but out but at 2-1 you'd have to say its Advantage United.

How is it advantage United? They're losing.

Pighead · 05-04-2007 08:31AM

super_furry wrote:

How is it advantage United? They're losing.

The precious away goal my friend. United are favourites to go through now.

daveg · 05-04-2007 08:33AM

super_furry wrote:

How is it advantage United? They're losing.

I agree with Pighead./ I'm delighted with an away goal and only 1 goal down. We only need win 1-0 at home (only :rolleyes: ). On the other hand if I were a Roma fan I wouldn't be happy. Roma dominated the match, were playing against 10 men at home and only win 2-1. We did well under the circumstances.

super_furry · 05-04-2007 08:41AM

Yes, they have an away goal but Roma only need to draw to progress, so it's definately advantage Roma.

Champions League Quarter Finals Leg 1

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