Scumbags

31-03-2007 11:53AM

is it a scumbag area?

There's scumbag areas now?

DemonOfTheFall · 31-03-2007 12:01PM

scojones wrote:

What would you do? Leave it be? Kick the living fuck out of them? The guards don't want to pursue this until Monday.

Leave it and see what the guards do. They'll probably do nothing at all but better not to implicate yourself in the meantime.

In a few months from now when the scumbags have forgotten about this then get whatever revenge you want, they won't be coming straight to your sister's door suspecting her. Just get a few mates and batter the ringleader when he's on his way home alone some night or something, make sure he doesn't see you and you're sorted.

DemonOfTheFall · 31-03-2007 12:08PM

Deleted User wrote:

There's scumbag areas now?

Of course theres scumbag areas now. What kind of PC bullcrap response is that?!

Hmmm, have a think here. Did this occur in the middle of D4 in an estate of €1m houses or did it occur in the middle of a sprawling council estate where the ground is carpeted with the sim cards discarded from stolen phones?

:mad: at PC crap like this.

Champ · 31-03-2007 12:15PM

My deepest sympathies, no one should have to put up with that kind of crap. I too would lean towards following the lawful path in resolving this... situation though like others i have serious reservations whether appropriate justice if any will take place.

One might think surely a reasonable country with reasonable people would have an adequate justice system? Mmmm we can only dream, moreso in regards to the scumbags you've mentioned which should be pernamently removed from the genepool.

If the gardai response is sorely lacking... i wouldn't put it past those scumbags to come back. Isn't there some provision in the law that allows you to use "non-lethal" force to protect private property? My suggestion is that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction... and this should thus be conveyed to these people should they decide to come back.. within your interpretation of the indulgence of "non-lethal" as the law permits.
In your situation i would bend it towards "non-fatalistic" and perhaps read up on human anatomy.

Hard Larry · 31-03-2007 12:38PM

I'm with DaveMcG, Faceman and Demon on this one.

Wait and see what the Law do. They may get their comupence through the legal system...but more than likely they won't.

When your family is threatened then IMO a line has been crossed. Spread the story about what happened to your sisters cars around town. And make sure you emphasise on your Nephew crying and having nightmares. People will be disgusted. And you'll never know who might pick up on the story and offer you a hand. Don't mention the Scumbags name though the story will eventually get back to him through word of mouth that's when he'll find out you're her brother. See what he does then...will he back off or even apologise. If he goes bragging about it or starts bad-mouthing her well then...
You should wait man...bide your time do nothing for now...what you do know (courtesy of the Guards) is that this guy gets off his face every weekend, right?

The Summer is coming and its in every scummers blood that he must go on a cider binge when the weather is hot. So find out where he goes knacker drinking and wait and watch and one night he'll ramble off on his own away from his mates. Thats when the ancient Irish Martial Art of JohnPlayerBlueAshTray must be enforced on his head. Get him while he's so drunk he can't even see or call for help.

One thing that turns my stomach is wannabe Hardmen like that who get their kicks from terrorising a mother and child.

scojones · 31-03-2007 12:47PM

Thanks for all the advice! I've slept on it obviously.

The forensics were over this morning. The couldn't obtain any fingerprints from the objects used to wreck the cars, but I knew this anyway. They got a footprint from one of the cars; one of the lads kicked the back door. They also took away the beer can that was poured over the car. They seemed fairly positive about getting something from that.

The guard that is dealing with this starts work at 10pm tonight so we have to wait until he is on his shift to find out exactly what is going on. I have just been around to a few of my sister's neighbours and we have witnesses the scumbags running from the scene at the time it happened. When they were over at the house yesterday evening, at 7pm, the main culprit said he was going to destroy her cars. We have witnesses to him shouting this at my sister as well. Surely this should be enough evidence to get a conviction.

I'm a bit miffed that the guard doesn't start until 10pm, as it's my sister's 30th birthday today and all of this is going to ruin it.

For now it's in the guards hands. When I see the scumbags who did this I'm going to calmly have words with them. If they are proud of what they have done, talk about it boastfully, and slag off my sister then I won't be able to restrain myself. I know their older brothers and they are all really nice lads, I won't even try to comprehend how their younger brothers turned into scum.

The forensics, even though it wasn't their place, were adamant that we push as far as we can go. They told me not to let my sister settle for the money, but to push for a conviction and push for the lot of them to get sent away. They seemed to think we had a good chance of this happening. How long it will take is anyone's guess.

I'm going to have a chat with them when I see them, and just let them know that what they did was really dumb. Whatever about actually doing it, but announcing it to the neighbourhood in front of several people at 7pm that evening. That is to the extent of the details that I will disclose to them. I won't let them know we have a witness who saw them fleeing the scene.

Also, one of the lads that hang around with them lives three doors up from my house. He's a really nice guy who got mixed up with these guys a few months back. I remember his mother complaining to my mother about the guys he was hanging around with (His mother is my mother's hair dresser). I think it's time I had a chat with him. I'll keep you updated.

P.S One of my very close friends is the Mayor of this town, who also owns a freely distributed paper. I will have no problem highlighting this incident and hopefully blackening their names.

Our man in Havana · 31-03-2007 02:03PM

In fairness the Gardaí are being proactive in catching these scummers. In the UK you would be lucky to see a cop in 3 days let alone have the CSI boys out. Give the garda from last night a ring tonight and suss out what's going on.

I am sorry to read about the whole sorry mess. I hope they are caught soon!

31-03-2007 03:46PM

Did this occur in the middle of D4 in an estate of €1m houses

€1m houses in D4? I live in an estate with houses that would fetch a bit more than that... and it's a far cry from D4. Across the water in fact.

did it occur in the middle of a sprawling council estate where the ground is carpeted with the sim cards discarded from stolen phones?

These places sound like something out of a graphic novel, where might I find one?

jesus smith · 31-03-2007 04:35PM

I'd leave it to the guards and id defintely leave the katana out of it, remember anything you do to somebody with an instrument is considered gbh so you dont want that,
my advice is if the guards haven't done anything by the week after next get em one by one with some mates.

ps mods please dont ban me from this forum for inciting violence tis just what id do.

Jesus Wept · 31-03-2007 05:45PM

jesus smith wrote:

I'd leave it to the guards and id defintely leave the katana out of it, remember anything you do to somebody with an instrument is considered gbh so you dont want that,
my advice is if the guards haven't done anything by the week after next get em one by one with some mates.

ps mods please dont ban me from this forum for inciting violence tis just what id do.

I don't see what been violent will achieve in the long run, its just reactionary and a bad idea, this is the likely results

1: You beat the **** out of them and feel a bit better and puff your chest out that you got some payback
2: You start a war and even more hassle and trouble is visited upon you and your sister by them.

Hardly worth it. I think it would be best to stay within the letter of the law for these reasons.

Exon · 31-03-2007 05:57PM

tbh I would do jail over that but if you have no one to fight with you if things turn against you, just see what the guards can do first mate.

brianthebard · 31-03-2007 06:01PM

Scum like these "people" move in packs, and if you start a fight with one of them you have to fight them all. But they aren't interested in you they are interested in people who can't defend themselves, namely you sister in this case. Unless you are prepared to sit at the door of her house with a shotgun 24/7 for an indefinite time period you won't be able to keep them away from her once you start a fight. I think you should speak to a good solicitor, if the guards aren't doing much. Tbh I have no idea what they might say but they can give you an idea of the options available to you, with the guards and also these knackers. A solicitor may be able to get guards moving on things quicker.

DemonOfTheFall · 31-03-2007 07:25PM

Deleted User wrote:

€1m houses in D4? I live in an estate with houses that would fetch a bit more than that... and it's a far cry from D4. Across the water in fact.

These places sound like something out of a graphic novel, where might I find one?

Congratulations, you managed to completely sidestep the issue in your original post that I pointed out.

What relevance does the existance of other houses worth €1m have to do with anything I said? So what if my description of a rough area was a bit of a caricature?

I think you've seen my point and you're floundering.

Binomate · 31-03-2007 07:37PM

If the gardaí don't get them, have your bat ready. By the way, I'll add that the thread title doesn't really suit this thread. Scumbags is too good a word for these people.

The-Rigger wrote:

I don't see what been violent will achieve in the long run, its just reactionary and a bad idea, this is the likely results

1: You beat the **** out of them and feel a bit better and puff your chest out that you got some payback
2: You start a war and even more hassle and trouble is visited upon you and your sister by them.

Hardly worth it. I think it would be best to stay within the letter of the law for these reasons.

Sorry, but violence is the only way you can get through to these kinds of people. Sure you could ignore it, let the justice system take its course, and live your life in the knowlege that your better than them in every aspect of life, but if you let them know that you've won too, then it seems to me to be more satisfying. You can let them know you've won by crushing their skulls with a baseball bat (preferably metal, for that bouncy feel) or by knocking every single one of their teeth out with your fist.

Dooom · 31-03-2007 08:30PM

I'm sure you're smarter than this, but uh, you might want to be aware of premeditated assault.
Not that I'm saying these tools don't deserve to be beaten to a bloody pulp, but with the justice system the way it is etc. etc.

humanji · 31-03-2007 08:49PM

I don't understand how so many people can be stupid enough to say that you should give them a beating. As Spike says, it's premeditated, which means you're pretty f*cked when you're caught. And you will be caught. You'll go to jail and your sisters house will be fire bombed. So if you want to throw away your life, your sisters life, your nephews life and her boyfriends life by "being macho", then so be it. Use you head and get a good result from all this. Keep at the gards until they finally go after them.

jrey1981 · 31-03-2007 09:38PM

You should have some luck with the guards. A guy I know was getting off a train a few months back and he and his friend were assaulted. The guards knew who did it and a few days later they got their comeuppance, one or two of the main culprits got put away.

If for any reason you don't have any luck with the guards, there's always a leader of these gangs. He's the one that needs teaching a lesson if you can catch him on his own.

However, you have an advantage that you know some of their families and older brothers. Set things straight with them and make it known that if they don't stop the scumbags will come to alot of harm. The older brothers and the families might then do the rest for you.

I wish you the best of luck.

Hard Larry · 31-03-2007 10:07PM

I wasn't going to post again until Scojones got back with more details. Hopefully hes out celebrating his sisters birthday.

But a couple of posters have driven me to it.

Being 'Macho' has nothing to do with this whatsoever.

I thought Scojones made it pretty clear but for those of you that may have overlooked the point ill spell it out for you...

THEY TRIED TO BREAK INTO THE HOUSE

THE GIRL WAS ON HER OWN WITH A YOUNG CHILD

People with a mentality like that have no fear of Guards or Jail

Put yourself in the picture your sister rings you in the middle of the night with the same story and you tell her "sorry sis, but I'm not throwing my life and career away to come down there and help you if I was to lay a finger on them our justice system will take me to the cleaners...hope they don't slash you up too bad...na-night'

And if the Guards do get them and they do get sentenced they'll just come back in a few years and do it all over again.

Best to let him think he's got away with it and get him while his guard is down. Get him while he's off his face, make it look like a mugging and he won't even know what happened except for the bruise's and lack of a mobile next morning.

Nasty and premeditated yes it is.

But so is a gang of lads in a house with a mother and child.

wyndham · 01-04-2007 10:18AM

What a bunch of toerags. They think they are Tony f**kin Soprano.
You are lucky they were gone when you rushed over with the katana OP.
In a situation like that adrenaline and fear takes over and you could be locked up this morning following a special sitting of x district court last night, charged with aggravated assault or even manslaughter. The damage to a vehicle pales into insignificance compared with damage to a person. And you can bet that the events preceding an assault with a katana would not even be a footnote in the reportage of the incident. Always remember that there is a world of difference between assault to a person and property damage. Perfectly understandible that you would rush to defend your family and any decent human being would do the same, but unfortunately the courts may not see it like that, and the reason for your ownership of such an offensive weapon would be questioned.

Do not take it upon yourself to seek revenge through violence- Do not let them become the victim in the eyes of the law. The Gardai are evidently taking it very seriously, given the gathering of forensic evidence and from the Guard's comments to you, I am sure they want him nailed as badly as you do.
I appreciate that you must be absolutely F**kin seething with rage, even after a couple of days, (I know I would be), but you must at least give the Criminal Justice system a chance.

Attached: Katana pic to lighten mood.

skywalker · 01-04-2007 10:44AM

DemonOfTheFall wrote:

In a few months from now when the scumbags have forgotten about this then get whatever revenge you want, they won't be coming straight to your sister's door suspecting her. Just get a few mates and batter the ringleader when he's on his way home alone some night or something, make sure he doesn't see you and you're sorted.

Out of interest, what does that solve, apart from making the op feel better. Them getting a random beating one night when they've no clue who did it or why they got itisnt suddenly going to put manners on them. I would've thought the idea behind doing something straight away is that while they may not know who did it, they definitely know why it happened.

Really sorry to hear about this scojones, I cant imagine how scared you must've been for your sis when you got that call. Tbh Id share your mentality of how much more danger could they be in if you do something. The only thing I will say is if you do go doing something, make absolutely sure your not going into a situation outnumbered.

01-04-2007 12:28PM

Congratulations, you managed to completely sidestep the issue in your original post that I pointed out.

What relevance does the existance of other houses worth €1m have to do with anything I said? So what if my description of a rough area was a bit of a caricature?

I think you've seen my point and you're floundering.

You make absolutely no sense. You said...

Hmmm, have a think here. Did this occur in the middle of D4 in an estate of €1m houses or did it occur in the middle of a sprawling council estate where the ground is carpeted with the sim cards discarded from stolen phones?

I was pointing out that I live in an estate in Finglas, where the majority of the houses are worth over a million, and I assume houses are worth more in "D4" as the majority of them are bigger and have bigger gardens etc. But my original question remains, where are these "scumbag areas" where "the ground is carpeted with the sim cards discarded from stolen phones?" because I can't think of one.

faceman · 01-04-2007 12:45PM

Deleted User wrote:

I was pointing out that I live in an estate in Finglas, where the majority of the houses are worth over a million

??? where in finglas? The only place i can think of is the main road leading away from the village towards the crossroads junction for ballmun. But the gaffs there arent worth a million!

01-04-2007 12:48PM

How do you know?

PeakOutput · 01-04-2007 01:01PM

didnt read the whole thread so might of already been said

if you know the guy talk to him NOW jsut talk be straight to the point and let him know that one way or another it was amistake for him to do it and either way he is going to pay

you never know you might get lucky and hell say oh **** didnt know it was ur sis man ill sort it out some way

then wait till monday and see what the gardai do if they do nothing put loads of pressure on them

ring insurance company get cars fixed.......they will then also put pressure on the gardai(at least if its the insurance company i used to work for cant speak for the rest) as they will want their money back

if the gardai are not doing anything speak with him again and basically let him know he is ****ed

after a couple of weeks issue civil court/small claims court(will prob be out of the limits of the small claims though if the damage is as bad as you say) this will take ages to go to court but sure again it might scare him into sorting something out

personally i would of killed him after what he did to the kid

Paddy_Irishman · 01-04-2007 06:45PM

Thats ****ty what happened to your sister man. I would do the same thing as you if my sister called like that and I know you would have chopped them up into bits if they had still been there when you got over as would have I.

That said, the moment of blood to the brain is passed. Its time to use the brain again and think about this. Revenge is a dish served cold and if you act on emtion, you will not get revenge but only even.

firstly to you and the rest of the ppl spamming the same **** over and over. I would be hazzarding a guess here, fairly educated one but if they did go and arrest this 'ringleader' lad for the damage over the weekend and he was pissed off his face / High as a kite as that gard said to you, what could they do? In order to even attempt to charge this scumbag they would have to interview him. How can they interview him if he's high as a kite or pissed as a fart? They would just end up holding him in a cell, praying he sobers up in time before they are forced to release him because if he didnt sober up properly and they had to release him, then they couldnt arrested him again for the same incident, not consitutional I do believe?

That said, he would probably tell them to **** off in an interview anyway but I doubt they could get a charge against him unless they attempted an interview. Negative infrinces from lack of an explanation in interview I do believe.

The gards deal with that part of it is only getting you even man. If you do know where all these lads live and who they are, thats perfect. By what you have said perviously, these lads dont even know who you are? haha, perfect.

They live in houses right? They possibly drive cars right? Smashy Smashy in the middle of the night. Conversation to Sumbag you know "Oh dear another window broken scumbag A? Thats terrible

" Also if you wanted to really take it that step farther. Leaving messages for them at there homes about how they will pay for what they did to your sis etc, random beatings of them when there alone. Scum like that wont go to the Gardai with messages or getting beating up

. Thats the best part

. Would be quite hard to pull off but something tells me there are more than 1 or 2 guys in your estate who would go the cloak and dagger approach if it were mentioned to them off the cuff

.

Im not condoing violence by the way. Some people just have different ways of handling things. Its not about two wrongs dont make a right, its about Absolute Justice in your eyes.

Guy:Incognito · 01-04-2007 07:14PM

humanji wrote:

I don't understand how so many people can be stupid enough to say that you should give them a beating. As Spike says, it's premeditated, which means you're pretty f*cked when you're caught. And you will be caught. You'll go to jail and your sisters house will be fire bombed. So if you want to throw away your life, your sisters life, your nephews life and her boyfriends life by "being macho", then so be it. Use you head and get a good result from all this. Keep at the gards until they finally go after them.

Theres plenty of ways around these things you know. Personnally I'd have some sort of long, drawn out crap to do that involved being in a garda station or have a gard in my house for some reason or other. Not my fault what occurs in the outside world while I'm discussing my important business with the gards. Sorting these things out doesnt have to be in perosn you know. Theres plenty of ways to let the lads know who was responsible while they are having their stay in hospital.

Anyhoo, thats just my approach to sorting things. Each to their own.

Plus, any gards I've come across wouldnt be activly seeking out the people who do these guys over.No skin off their noses that a few known scumbags get a hiding, especially when they know why it happened.

Fajitas! · 01-04-2007 07:26PM

You said you know their brothers? And one of their mothers. Be sure to tell them, if they're decent as ye said, they should be having a word. Don't bother going to beat the sh*t out of them, obviously. Spread the word on the ****. I'm sure their families would be delighted if their darling sons were named and shamed in a local paper (When all legalities have been sorted out - no point in getting yourself in legal trouble).

Tbh, my dad would beat the **** out of me.

See what the Gardaí do. Getting the forensics out is a fair step, and there seems to be evidence.

If the Gardaí/courtroom can't do anything about it (I'd be very dissapointed) then I quite like the idea of a couple of lads in balaclava's having a nice word with them.

Trinity · 01-04-2007 08:01PM

Dont have any advice OP but as a woman living alone with a 6 year my heart breaks for what those fcukers put your sister through. It must have been terrifying.

Pack of fcuking cowards picking on a woman alone with a child. And her own neighbours to boot.

ANd you had a pint with the main culprit so i take it hes not a kid himself, or at least over 18? this shocks me even more, i thought it would be 12 yr olds wanting to play football up against her house and threatening her.

It doesnt take a genius to see what kind of future these 'lads' have. Up and coming armed robbers, drug dealers and down and out scum from hell.

I imagine you want to pull their hearts from their chests and stick in down their throats.

Its great that you were there for your sister and lived so close, so getting yourself locked up wont help her now.

I hope the gardai can do something. And if they cant, well best of luck whatever you decide to do. Its a shame that people like this get away with it. Thats why they do it - cos they can.

ChRoMe · 01-04-2007 08:49PM

Lot of emotional answers understandably in this thread. I got angry reading the OP. My first guy reaction would be to get them after work/school with a couple of mates but to be honest it can get messy.

In regards to letting the guards handle it ROFLOL. I firmly believe that people who take this line in these situations do it because they dont have much real world experience in dealing with situations like this.

However I know of one tactic that is non violent that wont connect you directly and usually puts the ****s up people.

*Disclaimer: Uhh I've never done this myself.....

*

Speak to your local funeral directors and have a nice flower arrangement made up with the persons name. Organise the hearse to arrive at the persons house (while displaying the flower arrangement) and have the funeral director call to the house to say that he is here to collect the body of "insert pricks name here". Also dont forget to place the notices in the paper of how the lose of their life was tragic for one so young.

As no physical harm is going to happen along with the fact that you are not breaking any laws its a winner. Yes of course the confusion will be cleared up at the house but it should send a shiver down his spine. That along with (hopefully) fielding calls from realitves and having to explain that you havnt passed away should be enough to let them know you are thinking of them.

bueno suerte

PeakOutput · 01-04-2007 08:51PM

ChRoMe wrote:

Lot of emotional answers understandably in this thread. I got angry reading the OP. My first guy reaction would be to get them after work/school with a couple of mates but to be honest it can get messy.

In regards to letting the guards handle it ROFLOL. I firmly believe that people who take this line in these situations do it because they dont have much real world experience in dealing with situations like this.

However I know of one tactic that is non violent that wont connect you directly and usually puts the ****s up people.

*Disclaimer: Uhh I've never done this myself..... *

Speak to your local funeral directors and have a nice flower arrangement made up with the persons name. Organise the hearse to arrive at the persons house (while displaying the flower arrangement) and have the funeral director call to the house to say that he is here to collect the body of "insert pricks name here". Also dont forget to place the notices in the paper of how the lose of their life was tragic for one so young.

As no physical harm is going to happen along with the fact that you are not breaking any laws its a winner. Yes of course the confusion will be cleared up at the house but it should send a shiver down his spine. That along with (hopefully) fielding calls from realitves and having to explain that you havnt passed away should be enough to let them know you are thinking of them.

bueno suerte

nice and all as that sounds itll never work

Scumbags

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