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Advice required - Online poker.... What am I doing wrong?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    Flipper wrote:
    No, i promise you it's not! I actually don't even know how these figures work. All I know is that green numbers are good and red are bad. I would appreciate it if you could tell me where the strengths and weaknesses are in these stats...
    Well I know less than nothing about PLO, so unfortunately I can't be of any assistance when it comes to PT there. However certainly in NLHE a win rate of 21 PTBB/100 is basically impossible to sustain. Obviously it's all relevant to the stakes people play, but generally anything over 10 is exceptional and those players will quickly move up to the next level, at the highest levels the best players in the world have a PTBB/100 of well below 10, e.g. apparently bldswtrs has a rate of around 8 and lolotrickedu has one at about 6 over 250k hands and these are probably 2 of the best players in the world). So as you can see 21 PTBB/100 is fairly savage.

    Just incase you weren't messing and you really don't know what any of those stats mean, PTBB/100 means how many Big Bets you make for every 100 hands you play. [NOTE: Big Bet = 2x Big Blinds, PT was first developed for Limit Poker and measured win rates by Big Bets and Not Big Blinds] So, if you have a PTBB/100 of 21 it means you expect to make 42 BB's per 100 hands, or almost half a buy-in every single time you play 100 hands.

    This is a ludicrous figure, you must have been been running SUPER hot to be able to get this kind of figures. Or alternatively you are the best 5/10 and 10/20 PLO player in the world right now. Which one do you think it is??

    Here's a link to a web-site I always link people to when a PT thread comes up, it should provide you with all the info you need, although I can only presume it relates to PLO: http://www.bet-the-pot.com/poker-tracker-part-one-page31.html

    It really is all just about the long term, proper BR management, tilt control and game selection, etc.
    Flipper wrote:
    Well, as some here will agree, live 2/5 PLO games are of much the same size as the 10/20 online - maybe even bigger. I suppose the reason is that the buy-in isn't capped and also a live straddle can change the size of the game. I've often bought into the fitz game for 6k-10k and still been well covered by a couple of stacks. This would never happen online.
    And what % of your BR is this, my point wasn't about how big the game was, it was: if you could sit down at a Live game with your whole BR would you do it??

    You have no problem doing it on-line so why wouldn't you do it Live if there was a regular game running that was big enough??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭Gholimoli


    I like to think of my self as some one who has a better than average understanding of the game.
    Im not talking about playing AK, or being in position or out of position etc. im talking about actually knowing the elements that make the game.
    My abilities in putting that knowledge in to practice is also above average (or again I like to think it is) .however my success in terms of winning money has not been good by any standards even though my opponents have mostly been below average.
    The reason for this is simply due to bankroll management.
    Pure and simple.
    You can be gods greatest gift in whatever form of poker you play but if you don’t have any BR management you are bound to go broke again and again and again and again.
    The truth of the matter is with out it you will ultimately be a loosing player and will ultimately lose more than you win and believe me this is unavoidable.
    People who don’t think this way are really fooling them self’s to no end.
    This is the nature of the game.
    I truly envy players when I read some where that a particular player has been playing for some years and has only logged money in to their account once or only a few times.
    Those are the skills that I really wish to posses and not how to play AK with 15BB in late stages of a tourney.
    Another think I wanted to add was that good few people have this perception that out playing opponents and being better at them means to player more pots and play looser.
    I read Luckyloyds post in this thread where he says you may feel you can outplay a loose, bad player so you should play looser your self.
    This is very wrong in my opinion.
    I mean if you have identified a player’s mistake to be that he is loose then exploiting that weakness is not playing looser your self.
    HJ always talks about tightening up and not many people listen because they think its uncool or something to play tight.
    I wish he would actually do a math demo of why you should play tight in cash games and maybe then people would understand better why playing tight is generally good.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭Flipper


    pok3rplaya wrote:
    1) The OP's problem is that he has no bankroll management skills.
    2) If you have no BR skills you will NEVER be a long term winner at poker.
    3) You do not fully realise how long the long term really is.
    4) (Disclaimer: I don't know much about the OP's skill level) but based on your post and your need to even make a post like this, you are not a winner in the high stakes games you are playing. WHY ARE YOU PLAYING -EV GAMES AND EXPECTING TO WIN?
    I play them because the thoughts of grinding in small stakes makes me sick (maybe that's the answer to my own question). Soft games at higher stakes are hard to find. That game on Tribeca has a circle of maybe 15 players and 8 or 9 of them (most of whom I know personally) are good players. 3 are great players. I do agree that my bankroll management is terrible and any points to help me would be appreciated.

    Careca, I usually play so bad in the 5/10 game. Cooney always says I'm not right after a session of 5/10 for about 3 days. The limits in the game are ridiculous. With every pot raised to 35 Preflop and 4 to the flop, people are nearly pot committed after the flop! There's no play in the game and it generally just pisses me off.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Hectorjelly


    I wasnt having a go at you flipper!

    I just think this thread is a bit silly, I mean you are playing ultra high stakes omaha against a field of mostly good and excellent players. From your stats and hand you posted its clear that you err on the side of looseness. I have no idea of your finances but I can only assume you arent properly bankrolled for 6 handed 20 40 omaha (who is!). Its should be no surprise that you have lost your online br repeatadly. To play 20 40 properly I would think you should have a liquid br of over 100k.

    What you need to do is pretty obvious, put aside a certain amount of money to play a game, high enough to sustain your interest, but low enough so you are properly bankrolled. For NLH id suggest 25 buyins, not sure what an applicable Omaha guideline would be. Play 30k hands at it, (if you lose more than 4 or 5 buyins drop down) and then see where you are. If you managed to sustain a winrate of over 6PTBB then move up. If not then you arent really playing well enough to go higher and you have some leaks to your game.

    Sometimes a pokerplayers ego can be his biggest weakness.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,751 ✭✭✭BigCityBanker


    Flipper wrote:
    I play them because the thoughts of grinding in small stakes makes me sick (maybe that's the answer to my own question).


    Flipper this has alot to do with it. I told you in Citywest that I classify myself as a casual online player - I dont maintain bankroll, I play when I feel like it and at whatever stakes I feel like it. Ive played everything from 10c/20c NLHE to 5/10, and from .25/.50 to 5/10 PLO..... Im gonna be honest and say im a bit of a gambler and prone to a punt on the horses hence why I can lodge a buyin for a 5/10 game win it or lose it and get out again... On my visits to 5/10 I had winning sessions but it scared me (and this from a gambler), I understood I wasnt bankrolled to play it and my fear came from the fact that I was scared of getting hooked on playing these stakes after a winning session or two and think I was the greatest poker player ever and before I know it be el busto and be looking over a gate wondering which horse I could sell the quickest. I am currently playing 25c/50c NLHE and I am enjoying my poker more than ever and feel it has also improved my live play - im not gonna make 10k in one session but I know that over my various accounts I could clear a few hundred a month for a 10/12 hours play a week whilst im watching tv and studying the horse racing form. Now with reference to your quote from above - it might make you sick but at least you could be sure that you will make it pay - you could surely destroy 2/4 PLO and if you multitable rather than one tableing 10/20 shorthanded with Halibut and Mercedez1 you may be better off in the long run. The importance of bankroll management has been done to death - me I feel I can survive without a bankroll - I think you may be a bit different tho.

    PS: Im reading these PT stats with interest - my 1st 1k hands VPIP=35 / BB/100=21. :confused: I love been able to play at this level and whoop ass cos of position/agression.


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