p45 question

juanveron45 · 07-11-2006 02:57PM #1

I was wondering if its absolutely necessary to give a new employer your p45 the reason I ask is of you were out of work but keeping up pretences you were still with your previous employer the new employer would be able to find out the exact date you left as it would be on the p45

Wishbone Ash · 07-11-2006 03:03PM

juanveron45 wrote:

I was wondering if its absolutely necessary to give a new employer your p45 the reason I ask is of you were out of work but keeping up pretences you were still with your previous employer the new employer would be able to find out the exact date you left as it would be on the p45

Well if you don't, you will have to pay emergency tax until you change your mind.

delly · 07-11-2006 03:05PM

No P45 = No way to calculate tax = They have to have it to pay you. So i'm pretty sure you have to have it. From oasis.gov.ie:

Employer’s PRSI obligations

Your employer is responsible for deducting your social insurance contribution from your wages and paying it together with the employer’s contribution to the Revenue. The deduction is written on your payslip. If the amount paid to the Revenue is not correct the employer is responsible for making up the deficit. Your employer keeps a record of the insurance contributions you make and is obliged to give you a P60 at the end of each year and a P45 if you leave the employment.

P45: If you leave your employment your employer must give you a P45. This is a statement of your pay and the tax and PRSI to date deducted by your employer. It is a very important document and you need it if:

* You are changing job – to give to your new employer in order to avoid paying emergency tax
* You are unemployed – to claim a tax refund, to claim social welfare benefits

If your employer does not give you a P45 you should ask for it.

Also:

If you are not given a P45 when you leave your job you should first ask your employer for it. If the employer does not supply it you should contact your local tax office. Alternatively, under the Data Protection Acts 1998 and 2003 you have the right to request a copy of any personal information kept on computer or manual files. You can write to your employer making an access request for a copy of your P45. You should state that you are making the request under section 4 of the Data Protection Acts and include your name, address and PPS No. Your employer may ask you to pay a fee of no more than €6.35 for your record. When you have made the request and paid the fee you must be given the information within 40 days. In your letter you can state that if your employer does not respond to your access request for your P45 you will make a complaint to the Data Protection Commissioner.

juanveron45 · 07-11-2006 03:09PM

i think you can get away with giving it to them so long as you dont mind paying emergency tax for a while

Bogger77 · 07-11-2006 03:12PM

can you not talk to the tax office, and ask for a day one tax cert?

They should be able to issue one, without your employeer knowing what your previous company was or what you earned there, only your allowences for the rest of the tax year.

I'll avoid the asking the question why you've mislead your employeer, but make sure it can't be used to dismiss you in the future

petes · 07-11-2006 03:12PM

juanveron45 wrote:

i think you can get away with giving it to them so long as you dont mind paying emergency tax for a while

But you are still going to have to give it to them thus still letting them know when you left your last employment. Doesn't take a genius to work out you weren't working for them when you applied. Also are you giving your previous employer as a referee? They can also find out that way when you left.

Wishbone Ash · 07-11-2006 03:15PM

juanveron45 wrote:

i think you can get away with giving it to them so long as you dont mind paying emergency tax for a while

I don't think you understand the way Emergency Tax is applied. It increases progressively until you submit the P45 and AFAIK it is not repaid until your affairs are in order.

Wishbone Ash · 07-11-2006 03:21PM

Emergency Basis of Tax Deduction 2006

The emergency basis must be used when:
The employer has not received, in respect of the employee,
either a Certificate of Tax Credits and Standard Rate
Cut-Off Point or a Tax Deduction Card for the current year
or a Form P45 for the current year or previous year, or
The employee has given the employer a completed Form
P45 indicating that the emergency basis applies, or
The employee has given the employer a completed P45
without a PPS number and not indicating that the
emergency basis applies
Tax is calculated on the gross pay (after deduction of Pension
contributions and permanent health contributions where
relevant). Different rules apply depending on whether or not the
employee provides an employer with his/her PPS Number.
The tables below outline the tax credits and cut off points
applicable. The standard rate of tax is 20%. The higher rate of tax
is 42%.
A. Where Employee does not provide a PPS Number
Where an employee does not provide a PPS Number, the higher
rate of 42% applies to all earnings.
Week or Month
Standard Rate
Cut-Off Point
Tax Credit
All £0.00 £0.00
B. Where Employee Provides a PPS Number
Where an employee provides a PPS Number, the tax credits and
cut-off points in the table below apply.
Weekly paid
Weekly Standard
Rate Cut-Off Point
Weekly Tax Credit
Weeks 1 to 4 £616 £32
Weeks 5 to 8 £616 £0.00
Week 9 onwards £0.00 £0.00
Monthly Paid
Monthly Standard
Rate Cut-Off Point
Monthly Tax Credit
Month 1 £2,667 £136
Month 2 £2,667 £0.00
Month 3 onwards £0.00 £0.00
Circumstances will arise where, for example, an employee starts
employment without a PPS Number, provides it in say week 3, but
still has not provided a P45 or Tax Credit Certificate. As the PPS
Number has been provided, tax should be applied atWeek 3 per
the schedule listed above and continued into week 4 and 5 etc, as
appropriate, until such time as a P45 or Tax Credit Certificate is
provided.

juanveron45 · 07-11-2006 03:23PM

basically i resigned from my current job a few weeks ago as i didnt like what i was doing and it was too stressful, I am keeping up pretences im still working there as it doesnt look good if you just quit.

petes · 07-11-2006 03:25PM

juanveron45 wrote:

basically i resigned from my current job a few weeks ago as i didnt like what i was doing and it was too stressful, I am keeping up pretences im still working there as it doesnt look good if you just quit.

Better to be honest though. At least that way nothing can come back and bite you in the ass.

Wishbone Ash · 07-11-2006 03:29PM

juanveron45 wrote:

basically i resigned from my current job a few weeks ago as i didnt like what i was doing and it was too stressful, I am keeping up pretences im still working there as it doesnt look good if you just quit.

A few weeks ago would be OK. You could say that you took a few weeks to travel abroad. I thought you meant that you hadn't worked in a few years. :eek:

juanveron45 · 07-11-2006 06:06PM

the thing is i havent had any job offers yet im just doing interviews should i tell the truth or continue to say im still with the company

Fenster · 07-11-2006 07:51PM

I've a question regarding my P45 that's somewhat obliquely related to the original question: When I give my new employer my P45, how must they process it (ie, what part goes where?) and is there a timeframe within which this must be processed.

Wishbone Ash · 07-11-2006 08:00PM

Fenster wrote:

I've a question regarding my P45 that's somewhat obliquely related to the original question: When I give my new employer my P45, how must they process it (ie, what part goes where?) and is there a timeframe within which this must be processed.

From Oasis:

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/employment/changing_jobs/change_job_tax_prsi.html?search=p45

Whenever you leave a job you should get a form P45 from your employer. Your P45 form is a statement from your employer that contains important information. For example, it states the amount of pay you received to date, the amount of tax and social insurance (PRSI) you paid to date, the name of your last employer, etc. When you begin work at your new job, you will need this P45 form to give to your new employer. Your new employer then takes some details from your P45 and then sends your P45 form to the tax office on your behalf. This is to notify the tax office that you have now commenced working for a new employer and ensures that they are deducting tax appropriately. When you give the P45 to your new employer, he/she will:

Operate PAYE in accordance with the tax credits and standard cut off point details shown on the form P45 until he/she receives a tax credit certificate from the tax office.
Notify the tax office that you have changed jobs so that a tax credit certificate can be issued for your new job.
If you do not give your new employer a form P45, emergency tax will be deducted.

More info here:

http://www.revenue.ie/leaflets/emp2006.pdf

the_syco · 07-11-2006 09:41PM

Look it up (do a search on this forum), but I pretty sure that you could get a "blank" P45. Speak to your local Social Welfare office for more details, and tell them you're looking for it, as you don't want your new employer to know your last employment details.

p45 question

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