rrpc wrote:

That's not how it happened in Rathdrum Sparks. Here's how that went.

1. Phonecall to chairman on a Suturday; "We're here to inspect the range". Chairman was in Waterford, I was in Gorey, another local member was in Lanzarote, nobody available to let them in.

2. Three weeks later (22nd August); "We'll be there in an hour". Chairman met them, welcomed them in, everything goes swimmingly "Very little to do lads, we'll get back to you with our report" (No detail given whatsoever).

3. Three weeks later (13th September); letter from Wicklow Garda Station; "You're to close forthwith on safety grounds". No grounds given, no report, no visit.

4. Four weeks later, still no visit, still no report, still no grounds, still no range :mad:

Your closure was totally illegal, you invited the Gardai in for advice, advice given would only be that the range was safe to the current JSP standards, even if it was not up to the standard there is no legislation in existance to close you down, essentially your mistake was actually to stop shooting, how would they ahve actually prevented you if you decided to continue, they would need a warrant to come on your range uninvited, all persons using the range are lisece holders, how would they prvent lisence holders from exercising their rights, go back shooting and ignore them!

If you want sight of our legal opinion on the matter contact me on flagireland@eircom.net

rrpc wrote:

We are well aware of the legal shortcomings of their stance FLAG, and have written to the Super in Wicklow pointing them out.

We would be quite happy to implement any upgrades that would improve safety, the frustrating thing is that we have not been told what is required.

The new act will require safety standards to be met, so getting bolshie about it now would just be postponing the inevitable.

No one is recommending that you get bolshie, the fact is that you have been closed down by an unlawful act, the new legislation which has yet to be implemented by statute will not legitimise the trangression of the law that has been carried out by the Gardai in forcing you to close.

The significant differnence that will be in place when the new range regualtions will be enacted will be that they will be that they will be regulated by legislation, that is not the case presently.

While the ballistics section may have made observations about your range and safety, they are only that "observations", I understand that you have been shooting in your present location for more than 40 years, so it stands to reason that it is "safe" not up to JSP standards perhaps but they do not currently have the force of law.

You should not roll over on the basis of legislation that is not in effect because you are totally unaware of the form that the implementaion will take, for starters, the range inspector is most unlikley to be from the Gardai, he will be an independent appointee of the Minister, he will work to published standards and due notice will be provided for all recommendation with a time frame for them to be implemented.

It is of course your own choice to do with your range what you wish but when the current legisaltion is clearly in your favour you do no good for shooting sports by lying down and being walked on.

rrpc wrote:

We have no intention of rolling over and being walked on Declan. We were willing to go along with the range inspections on the basis that it in general it is a good thing to have some definite guidelines to follow and a process of approval in place in the absence of any such system for the past decades.

We have allowed a reasonable amount of time to pass after receiving the notice of closure and in the absence of anything concrete in terms of specific requirements to be met by us, we have put them on notice that we intend re-opening.

In other words, we have co-operated, they have not reciprocated and we intend to cease co-operation.

Great to hear, the problem being communication or lack there of and people like me jumping to conclusions, I am delighted to hear that you are going to be back up and running, seems to me that there was a considerable gap in the competition calendar with your range off line....... the best of luck to you. If things hot up the offer of the benefit of our legal opinon is still open to you.

rrpc wrote:

I wouldn't mind seeing it now, if that's ok Declan. It may be handy to have in advance of any heat developing. PM me if you are in a position to send me a copy.

I will have a copy with me at the SSAI meeting in Abbeyleix for anyone wishing to review it.

Declan

rrpc wrote:

Should that not be copies? Every club will have representation at that meeting including us, and I'd imagine they'll all want a copy.

Our solicitor will not permit his legal opinion to be dispersed in this manner, the opinion was provided in the circumstances that pertain to a single clubs situation but essentially give legal opinion on the core issue and will be valuable to all clubs.

I have no issue discussing or showing the document to any person present at the meeting but I will not copy it for circulation.

Sparks wrote:

Just as an aside note Declan, if you show that document to those at the meeting, whether or not you give them a copy to take away, you will have circulated it...

So Mark, are you saying that I should not show it to interested parties! The advice can be discussed and people made aware of the content which will be one of the main focuses of the meeting. We can get pedantic about showing it circulating it, main point here is that anyone who is interested will be informed of the detail of the legal advice sought and obtained, I will not copy the document and circulate it, bottom line!

Newby, I don't know who you are but I do take exception to you inferring that I am "ego pissing" by responding to marks observations, I have no intention of turning the thread into anything other than an exchange of information, I think I am reasonably justified in responding as I did andyou have no right making the statement you did two cents or not, I feel an apology would not be unreasonable!

newby.204 wrote:

Fair enough ill give you that i overstepped the boundry and i do apologise, but the chances are in the course of Mark and yourself exchanging information, you two will hijack the thread by constantly remarking at what you see are flaws in one anothers posts!! Correct me if im wrong but it has happened before, to such an extent that the two of you were given your own thread.

Im not sniping simply stating fact, and i have apologised for the personal insult on you like i said i overstepped the mark

Apology accepted and appreciated, however I am not the only one drawn down the road of dueling with Mark! On occasions I have just not been able to let it go. Thats what probably has me still dealing with the Gardai and Justice since 1995, can't let it go till it is done...........

Sparks wrote:

Declan, if you want to go round demanding apologies, do it somewhere else please. You said you'd been told not to circulate that opinion by the soliciter; I pointed out that showing it to all and sundry at a public meeting was circulating it, even if they didn't get copies to take home, an observation which could only have benefited you personally by preventing you from misstepping into hot water with a soliciter. Newbie thought your response was the start of another pissing match and said so, and he had every right to say so, there's been enough precendent set in the past. He stepped over no line, but you most certainly did. Check the forum's charter, if you would, specifically this part:

Mark you are starting trouble again, you already made your point about your interpretation of what circulations is and now you are continuing to harp on about it, this is my last post on the thread in case I am in danger of overstepping the Mark again!