Question for you and Irish culture

Jorge · 20-07-2006 12:33AM #1

Hello everybody. I am Jorge from Araba in the Basque Country in north of Spain.

I am living in Dublin for 4 weeks because I am interested in Celtic Culture and Ireland has much of it and i like this country very much. And also your people are very the same as my people.

Also now I am begining learn Irish culture and everything. I like music of Ireland and language of Ireland. I cannot find this special culture in Europe at all.

I visit Wicklow, Cork, Limerick before. I like Dublin and I am living here but I visit Gaillimh last week and there is more good experiences for me in this city. I visit the city and ``An Ghaeltacht`` beside the sea. Also I visit ``Na hOileann Aran`` and is amazing and I love this place. There is very good Irish culture and I really like to move there to learn more about Ireland.

My question for you is I cannot understan the history of Ireland, please help me. I ask my Irish friends but sometimes a never understand what they tell me. I can read English better than to listen.

I do not understand why there not Irish culture everywhere in Ireland and in Dublin the English culture is better? I like to know why many your people do not like Irish language and music of Ireland ? My friend said to me all people in Ireland is from really old celtic people. I think many places in this country that your people are not very celtic but in Gaillimh the people are celtic.

I do not understand that Gaillimh is very different and not the same in Dublin. I think in Dublin that the Irish people are very patroitic but in Gaillimh it is diferent and the people are very Irish without patriotic!

Thankyou for the help. I will read every answer. I am learning and very confused in your country!

Jorge

Dave! · 20-07-2006 12:42AM

Well basically the English influence is strongest in Dublin because the main English headquarters was there (Dublin Castle -- have you been there yet?)

I'm sure someone else will expand on that, but I won't pretend to be any more educated than I am

Welcome to Ireland!

Kernel · 20-07-2006 12:48AM

Hi Jorge, the reason why Dublin seems less 'Celtic' is that Dublin was also the capital city of Ireland during the occupation by British crown forces, and this region was known as 'The Pale'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale

British government buildings were situated here, and much trade and employment was carried out. It was not possible to succeed without speaking English - which is why Gaeilge died out. The influence wasn't felt as strongly outside of the Pale because the British weren't all that interested in the boglands - apart from for plantation purposes - because there wasn't a lot to do out there (that is why so many from the country clog up the fine city of Dublin).

The customs of Ireland are therefore different between Dublin and 'the country' because of these reasons and geographical location. The customs of Dublin are still unique, but obviously influenced by the British.

In the end we had the last laugh, when in 1916 brave Dubs rose up in glorious revolution, and defeated the British Empire. Ah, lovely. Now, there will be much debate and criticism from culchies and west-Brits (a new phenomenon of people who think the English are great and want to be like them).

Dave! · 20-07-2006 12:53AM

Kernel wrote:

In the end we had the last laugh, when in 1916 brave Dubs rose up in glorious revolution, and defeated the British Empire. Ah, lovely. Now, there will be much debate and criticism from culchies and west-Brits (a new phenomenon of people who think the English are great and want to be like them).

Don't confuse the chap with your gibberish!

Rollo Tamasi · 20-07-2006 01:09AM

Kernel wrote:

In the end we had the last laugh, when in 1916 brave Dubs rose up in glorious revolution, and defeated the British Empire. Ah, lovely.

brave dubs like Michael Collins and De Valera yeah?
anyway...

The reason why irish isn't spoken as much is because up to less than a 100 years ago it was illeagal to speak the language. The British would execute those speaking Irish. Cultural movements where apparant across the country and gave rise to the IRB (who later became the IRA), the Gaelic League, and the GAA (Gaelic Atheltic Association).

Irish is resented by young people very much in the same way as Latin would be resented by young Italians, to a certain extent anyway, who are pretty much asked to learn a language that they'll never really use.

I'm a fleunt Irish speaker and i'm very much in the minority in this country which is a shame.

Kernel · 20-07-2006 01:23AM

DaveMcG wrote:

Don't confuse the chap with your gibberish!

Oh and Jorge, for feck sake - stay away from Tallaght.

Dave! · 20-07-2006 01:28AM

Funny you should mention that! I was walking my dog earlier and passed by the football pitch near me, and there were no less than 30 Spanish students kickin a ball around, and playing frisbee and stuff!

If you're a Spanish student, Tallaght's the place to be!

Mr.Nice Guy · 20-07-2006 01:33AM

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

The reason why irish isn't spoken as much is because up to less than a 100 years ago it was illeagal to speak the language. The British would execute those speaking Irish.

Yeah we all remember the countless people from the Gaelic League executed for speaking the language.

20-07-2006 01:46AM

Kernel wrote:

.

In the end we had the last laugh, when in 1916 brave Dubs rose up in glorious revolution, and defeated the British Empire.QUOTE]

Holy god!We defeated the british in 1916!well feck me,Every history book has been telling lies!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!!!!!11!

Lets see
Sean mac diarmada:leitrim
Eamonn DeValera:New York
thomas mac donagh:Cloughjordan
Tom Clarke:Isle of Wight

It was not all dubs.

DublinWriter · 20-07-2006 05:51AM

Kernel wrote:

In the end we had the last laugh, when in 1916 brave Dubs rose up in glorious revolution, and defeated the British Empire. Ah, lovely. Now, there will be much debate and criticism from culchies and west-Brits (a new phenomenon of people who think the English are great and want to be like them).

Laughed my balls off at the above!

'Defeated' the British Empire? The 1916 Rising was a military disaster.

Secondly, the leaders of the 1916 were spat at by Dubliners as they were being led from the GPO to Kilmainham.

Thirdly, go read/watch Strumpet City. Many Dublin homes, both working and middle class, hung out Union Jacks when King Edward came to visit.

20-07-2006 06:08AM

One book you may want to read is How the Irish Saved Civilization. This is but one of many fine books that address Irish culture and its origins.

ullu · 20-07-2006 06:44AM

Kernel wrote:

In the end we had the last laugh, when in 1916 brave Dubs rose up in glorious revolution, and defeated the British Empire. Ah, lovely. Now, there will be much debate and criticism from culchies and west-Brits (a new phenomenon of people who think the English are great and want to be like them).

West-Brits are a new phenomenon? They must be have only recently emerged from the shadow of the Vikings who preceded them...

DublinWriter · 20-07-2006 06:49AM

ullu wrote:

West-Brits are a new phenomenon? They must be have only recently emerged from the shadow of the Vikings who preceded them...

Ack-chew-ley, the term 'West Brit' comes from the 1801 Act of Union which renamed Ireland 'West Briton'.

It didn't catch on, strangely.

ullu · 20-07-2006 07:54AM

DublinWriter wrote:

Ack-chew-ley, the term 'West Brit' comes from the 1801 Act of Union which renamed Ireland 'West Briton'.

It didn't catch on, strangely.

In fairness, I was only pointing out in a facetious way that the poster of that comment seemed to imply being a West Brit was a recent fashion trend.

Day-wanna-wonga · 20-07-2006 08:01AM

Kernel wrote:

In the end we had the last laugh

Didn't realise the last laugh had happened yet. And when you say "we", you of course mean other people surely? Unless you were alive in 1916...

Hagar · 20-07-2006 08:16AM

Here we go again...

Beruthiel · 20-07-2006 08:42AM

Jorge wrote:

My question for you is I cannot understan the history of Ireland, please help me. I ask my Irish friends but sometimes a never understand what they tell me.

Hi Jorge,
Irish history goes back a long, long way.
How far back do you want to go?
For a little tiny taste of my favourites:

The myths and legends of the Fir Bolg and the Tuatha de Dannan
Queen Maeve and Cu Chulain
Neolithic Ireland
The first High King Brian Boru
Gráinne Ní Mháille

I like to know why many your people do not like Irish language and music of Ireland ?

That's a hard one to answer.
Perhaps we have had our independence in the south for a while now and the need to keep the culture is not as strong in the population as it once was, though you will still find sections who do feel it's still important.

Last month I spent my holidays in the Basque Country, Bilbao, San Sebastian and 5 days in Hondarribia.
It was in Hondarribia that I was really struck with something I did not realise before. That the Basque people feel very, very strongly that they are not Spanish but a people apart and to their own.
Before I took my holidays there, I thought that it was just some of your people who felt this way, now I know that it's everyone.
You still speak Basque, your music is played on the streets and every where you go, you just know you are in the Basque country and not Spain. Perhaps if the Spanish give you your independence, eventually you will not need to strongly hang onto your culture anymore...
I loved the holiday by the way, Hondarribia is a wonderful town, the people are fantastic there.

Lads
Why not take the political discussion to another thread and just give Jorge what he asked for, a taste of irish history.
Though, considering that we have never done anything but fight amongst ourselves, nothing much has changed there...

Day-wanna-wonga · 20-07-2006 08:45AM

Here is one definitive link: http://www.answers.com/topic/history-of-ireland

Beruthiel · 20-07-2006 08:50AM

Day-wanna-wonga wrote:

Here is one definitive link: http://www.answers.com/topic/history-of-ireland

that should keep him going for a couple of weeks

Wibbs · 20-07-2006 08:52AM

Jorge wrote:

Hello everybody. I am Jorge from Araba in the Basque Country in north of Spain.

Hola Jorge(or is that Epa Jorge

)Funny thing is that we as a people may be more related to you lot in northern Spain than any others in europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland#Demographics (third paragraph)
In fairness the genes are more on the Gallaecian side but close enough.

Kernel wrote:

British government buildings were situated here, and much trade and employment was carried out. It was not possible to succeed without speaking English - which is why Gaeilge died out. The influence wasn't felt as strongly outside of the Pale because the British weren't all that interested in the boglands - apart from for plantation purposes - because there wasn't a lot to do out there (that is why so many from the country clog up the fine city of Dublin).

I would agree with that about the Irish language. My family have lived inside "the Pale" for 100's of years and haven't spoken Irish in living memory. One uncle of mine learned the language in adulthood but that's it. The fact is that if I learned the language now, no matter how well I spoke it I would sound to a true Irish speaker(very few of those) like a foreigner in my own country. Thanks but no thanks. It would be the same if I tried to learn Basque or Spanish. No matter how long I did it for it's pretty likely you would see I was not a native(though obviously both those languages would be needed if I lived there).

Irish is resented by young people very much in the same way as Latin would be resented by young Italians, to a certain extent anyway, who are pretty much asked to learn a language that they'll never really use.

True though I would contend Latin is actually more useful in a purely practical way if not a cultural one.

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

I'm a fleunt Irish speaker and i'm very much in the minority in this country which is a shame.

Shame is debatable, but I do get your point. Then again, we don't speak pict,latin,french or norse either. All of which would have been in use here in the past. If it's meant to survive it will. Look at minority languages in other parts of Europe. The ex eastern bloc countries are a good example. Russian was the official language for a long time. Now the USSR is gone those languages have come back by themselves without the need for huge intervention from government. Same with Basque. Welsh even closer to home. Simply put, the people wanted it to survive. If Irish survives then I'll be happy as it was down to the Irish who wanted to speak it. If not, I won't cry too much.

Hagar wrote:

Here we go again...

Oooooh yea.

In my opinion it's not the English influence anymore. It's more the American.

chamlis · 20-07-2006 09:06AM

Wibbs wrote:

In my opinion it's not the English influence anymore. It's more the American.

*sigh* So true....

Jorge welcome to Ireland!
I've always had a love for your people and have visited the Basque country many times in the past. Our peoples are very alike. I hope you are having a great time in Galway if you're still there.

Beruthiel · 20-07-2006 09:06AM

Wibbs wrote:

My family have lived inside "the Pale" for 100's of years and haven't spoken Irish in living memory

Where as my family have always come from the West of Ireland, everyone of them (except for my generation) can speak Irish.
Our family comes from the Joyces, one of the Connaught Tribes from back in the day.

Wibbs · 20-07-2006 09:08AM

Beruthiel wrote:

It was in Hondarribia that I was really struck with something I did not realise before. That the Basque people feel very, very strongly that they are not Spanish but a people apart and to their own.
Before I took my holidays there, I thought that it was just some of your people who felt this way, now I know that it's everyone.
You still speak Basque, your music is played on the streets and every where you go, you just know you are in the Basque country and not Spain. Perhaps if the Spanish give you your independence, eventually you will not need to strongly hang onto your culture anymore...

I agree with you there. Spain is like that everywhere and not just with the Basques. If you go to Madrid where there would be a larger influx of people from all over Spain you find they identify themselves with their place of origin and the culture of that place much more than here. Also the cultures are much more distinctive than the more homogenised Ireland. The food, traditional dress, the architecture, festivals, the dialect can vary within a two hours drive of Madrid. They have way more language diversity too. Catalan, Galician, Basque, castilian(spanish) andalusian Spanish, asturian. After trying to think of more I found this Doh! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Spain
Their culture is as varied as their climate and is by far one of the most diverse I've experienced in Europe. We have a much much blander palate by comparison. Here a bloke or blokess from leitrim eats the same, dresses the same and lives in the same kind of house as a bloke or blokess from any other county you care to mention. Different ball game entirely.

Funsterdelux · 20-07-2006 09:17AM

You probably like Galway coz there is a bit of the old español in the people of the west, Armada crashes along West Coast, survivors and locals get together, one thing leads to another.
But thats beside the point

Simpson Quote: "Go back to Russia"

Beruthiel · 20-07-2006 09:27AM

Funsterdelux wrote:

You probably like Galway coz there is a bit of the old español in the people of the west, Armada crashes along West Coast, survivors and locals get together, one thing leads to another.

You're not wrong there, I come from a very large family, nearly every last one of us has brown eyes and black hair.

LikeOhMyGawd! · 20-07-2006 09:30AM

Jorge,

you will find that in Northern Ireland there is a close affinity between the Irish republicans and the Basques.

http://www.eitb24.com/portal/eitb24/noticia/es/politica/alto-el-fuego-gerry-adams-visitara-este-martes-euskadi?itemId=CD35309&cl=%2Feitb24%2Fpolitica&idioma=es

Beruthiel · 20-07-2006 09:35AM

LikeOhMyGawd! wrote:

you will find that in Northern Ireland there is a close affinity between the Irish republicans and the Basques.

Gerry Adams flew out to Bilbao on the same plane as myself when I was taking my holidays, I half wondered if I was going to arrive in one piece

loz · 20-07-2006 09:36AM

Kernel wrote:

In the end we had the last laugh, when in 1916 brave Dubs rose up in glorious revolution, and defeated the British Empire. Ah, lovely. Now, there will be much debate and criticism from culchies and west-Brits (a new phenomenon of people who think the English are great and want to be like them).

you mean we got bored and left you to split the country yourselves etc...

plus we had a real war to go and fight ....

Beruthiel · 20-07-2006 09:40AM

loz wrote:

you mean we got bored and left you to split the country yourselves etc...

plus we had a real war to go and fight ....

quit trolling :rolleyes:

Dyr · 20-07-2006 09:41AM

Beruthiel wrote:

You're not wrong there, I come from a very large family, nearly every last one of us has brown eyes and black hair.

Aye, ive known a few people on the west coast who'd still nearly pass as spaniards

Gone West · 20-07-2006 09:43AM

I gotta say. This guy is *the* sort of spanish tourist we want here.
He has a very good handle on the country.

Question for you and Irish culture

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