Imported fruit and veg...madness!

galah · 04-07-2006 07:59AM #1

Hi,

not sure if this is a green issue, a consumer issue, or a general problem...move if required!

Can someone please tell me why Dunnes and Tescos (and a lot of other retailers I'm sure) need to IMPORT strawberries from the US in the height of summer? Onions from New Zealand? Carrots from Spain? Potatoes from France?

It's absolutely incredible that we're offered goods that have been shipped around the world, while these kind of things grow nicely in Ireland, or at least mainland Europe! With exotic fruit and veg, I would understand, but with "staples"??? Can it really be cheaper to ship onions from NewZealand than grow them at home? Let alone the damage done to the environment...

It baffles the mind, and before I sent off a nasty letter to the big retailers, maybe one of you can explain WHY exactly this is going on! And people are buying this stuff, with not a thought wasted on the ecological effects (and I'm usually not a "greenie" myself, but somehow it feels wrong to eat food that has clocked up more frequent flyer miles than I have...)

Any answers/debate/discussion welcome, I'm really curious!

FillSpectre · 04-07-2006 08:23AM

No it is terrible. Tesco import lots from the UK in fact they import goods exported from Ireland.

It is simply cheaper to import the goods due to economies of scale rather than buy from Ireland.

The only way to stop it is introduce carbon tax.

Hagar · 04-07-2006 08:31AM

FillSpectre wrote:

No it is terrible. Tesco import lots from the UK in fact they import goods exported from Ireland.

Not to my knowledge, perhaps you have some more information to substantiate this claim?

fillSpectre wrote:

It is simply cheaper to import the goods due to economies of scale rather than buy from Ireland.

Partially correct, you must also factor in longer growing seasons in warmer countries and the relative poor quality of Irish produce. When was the last time you saw Cyprus potatoes covered in muck or found a big stone/clod of earth in the bottom of a bag to make up the weight? Both are common with Irish produce.

FillSpectre wrote:

The only way to stop it is introduce carbon tax.

A bit simplistic, for example, when has the tax on alchohol ever stopped people drinking?

galah · 04-07-2006 08:43AM

so what do we need to do to change this? I've stopped buying goods that have come from further away than mainland Europe, and I will only buy regional produce in season (where feasible) - but sometimes you don't even have the choice if all the goods come from abroad (so happened with potatoes the other day - not a single Irish potato in sight)...

I get the feeling that people here don't care, just buy what they need, without thinking...

FillSpectre · 04-07-2006 08:45AM

Hagar wrote:

Not to my knowledge, perhaps you have some more information to substantiate this claim?

Magners is currently on sale in Tesco.

Hagar wrote:

Partially correct, you must also factor in longer growing seasons in warmer countries and the relative poor quality of Irish produce. When was the last time you saw Cyprus potatoes covered in muck or found a big stone/clod of earth in the bottom of a bag to make up the weight? Both are common with Irish produce.

Cheaper the reasons don't matters.

Hagar wrote:

A bit simplistic, for example, when has the tax on alchohol ever stopped people drinking?

If Irish products are as cheap they will be sustained for the future when fuel prices push up export prices anyway. Tax restricts use to stop the maddness restriction is enough. VRT certainly does have an effect on the numeber of cars on the roads. Very simplistic view to think tax can't have a desired effect.

tk123 · 04-07-2006 08:46AM

I like those american strawberries thou - they're nicer than the Irish ones!:(

mikedragon32 · 04-07-2006 08:49AM

Simply put, every supermarket operator is in a highly competitive industry, where consumers care more about price and quality than source.

If you don't like that their goods are imported, simply buy them elsewhere. Then, if enough people follow your example, Tesco et al will have to listen to the consumers and provide them with what they want.

Blisterman · 04-07-2006 08:50AM

The israeli apples suck in Tesco. They're terrible.

Hagar · 04-07-2006 08:51AM

The truth is Tesco will put British produce on the shelves in preference to Irish goods every chance they get. At one stage they even sent over British potatoes in bags with the Union Jack printed on them but they never got out of the Irish distribution warehouses when the probable reaction was pointed out to them. I believe the same UK supplier still sends potatoes over but in more neutral packaging.

I worked in the industry for a long long time so I'm not making this up.

The choice is with the consumer to some extent, trying shopping in an Irish supermarket. There will still be imported goods but the ratio will be lower.

Wishbone Ash · 04-07-2006 08:53AM

You are right - most people don't care once their fruit and veg is cheap..

Tesco are screwing the growers more and more each year. Their (the growers) margins are tiny now. Many were making more in the 1970s with crops like tomatoes. Some growers have refused to supply Tesco as it it just not worth their while. This suits Tesco as they can claim that no Irish grower would supply them forcing them to source elsewhere. Fruit and vegetables are roughly the same price now as they were 20 years ago.

The next time you see a special offer in the shops, bear in mind that it is the grower who has to burden the cost of this - not the supermarket.

Hagar · 04-07-2006 08:57AM

FillSpectre wrote:

Magners is currently on sale in Tesco.

What makes you think it was ever exported?

FillSpectre wrote:

Cheaper the reasons don't matters.

Carry on buying stones as potatoes so.

FillSpectre wrote:

If Irish products are as cheap they will be sustained for the future when fuel prices push up export prices anyway. Tax restricts use to stop the maddness restriction is enough. VRT certainly does have an effect on the numeber of cars on the roads. Very simplistic view to think tax can't have a desired effect.

Irish products are regularly dearer due to higher production costs and overheads. How will carbon tax effect anything? The long distance transport companies are not based in Ireland anyway? VRT just means we have older more unsafe cars on the road not fewer cars.

Ciaran500 · 04-07-2006 08:58AM

I can't see how anyone can justify taxes to force companies to buy Irish goods. Its a free market and if you don't want to buy foreign goods shop somewhere else.

Bluetonic · 04-07-2006 09:02AM

As of 2004 10,200 Irish farmers are now supplying beef, lamb, pork, poultry and vegetables to Tesco on a regular basis.

Taken from Tesco Presentation to the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Enterprise and Small Business

HelterSkelter · 04-07-2006 09:05AM

Yes, Tesco sell corriendar from Israel of all places. I mean, for fúck sake. And selling strawberries from the US as well, what a joke.

luckat · 04-07-2006 09:06AM

Economies of scale - and the fact that Irish consumers (a) don't demand Irish goods, and (b) want the cheaper foreign goods.

Trade protection laws have the whole world in a crazy state - there are African farmers coming to Europe to work in the fields growing fruit and vegetables that would grow far better on their farms at home. But they can't grow them at home because they're not allowed to export them to Europe in some cases, and don't have the network to do so in others.

I'm quite happy to eat food grown abroad in many cases - after all, the banana plantations in Finglas have never really taken off - but tend to pounce on Irish-grown food when i find it.

And actually I don't find Tesco that bad; I buy a fair amount of vegetables there, and they're often Irish.

FillSpectre · 04-07-2006 09:07AM

Hagar

You choose to beleive what you like. You aren't discussing the issue and as you never discuss issues I have now added you to my ignore list. Nothing particular you said here just had enough of you

An additional tax for distance traveled makes sense and would also restrict wastful use of a dwindling fuel reserve. But I am sure somebody will say there is loads of fuel.

HelterSkelter · 04-07-2006 09:09AM

MorningStar, sorry, I mean FillSpectre works in retail, he knows all about this so don't argue with him!!

galah · 04-07-2006 09:16AM

Hagar wrote:

The choice is with the consumer to some extent, trying shopping in an Irish supermarket. There will still be imported goods but the ratio will be lower.

I thought Dunnes was Irish-owned? I might be wrong though...

I am just surprised that it is actually cheaper to import stuff than grow it here - and again, I'm talking about the staples, not the "exotic" fruits like bananas (;-)) - will consumers cop on eventually? I mean surely, the nutritional value of veg grown here and just driven "around the corner" must be much higher than veg that has spent at least a day on a plane, or worse, on a ship? Ever noticed how American stuff mostly tastes of water?

Is there no way of making home grown fruit and veg that's IN SEASON cheaper than stuff that's flown around the world? Will the companies develop an ecological conscience at some point?

bonkey · 04-07-2006 09:28AM

FillSpectre wrote:

An additional tax for distance traveled makes sense.

Only if you believe in protectionism and uncompetetive practices.

Over here in Switzerland, there's an interesting reversal of the problem. Teh Swiss buy a lot of nationally-grown produce and generally do so in preference to imported equivalents when the choice exists. They ealso engage in some protectionism to ensure that homegrown isn't flooded off the market by cheap imports.

However, the Swiss are constantly complaining how everything is so much more expensive here than in neighbouring EU countries, and they want everything to become "more competetive" (read "cheaper").

Its a trade-off. You can have cheap imports, or expensive homegrown. Or you can have intervention and accept that foreign nations will do the same to our exports, which doesn't make us better off in the end either.

You guys are complaining from one end, Switzerland from thjce other. You're saying you should have something more like the protected Swiss market, and the Swiss are saying they need something more like what you have.

Hagar · 04-07-2006 09:29AM

HelterSkelter wrote:

MorningStar, sorry, I mean FillSpectre works in retail, he knows all about this so don't argue with him!!

I was the IT Manager for Keelings Ireland Ltd for 13 years who manage the supply chain in Ireland for Tesco, and before that Quinnsworth. They also supply/supplied Dunnes and Musgraves and other smaller chains so I have an inside track on a few things. I not talking from a position of total ignorance at the same time I do not have all the answers.

Morningstar/Fillspectre and I have crossed swords before, It usually ends up with one of us on the other's ignore list.

FillSpectre · 04-07-2006 09:33AM

bonkey wrote:

Only if you believe in protectionism and uncompetetive practices.

Not what I am saying. If you let the industries die here when the fuel does run out you are in trouble. People need to think beyond the immidiate savings. You do one thing with multiple effects.

Hagar · 04-07-2006 09:35AM

galah wrote:

Is there no way of making home grown fruit and veg that's IN SEASON cheaper than stuff that's flown around the world? Will the companies develop an ecological conscience at some point?

The problem is the climate. Irish farmers will be lucky to harvest twice a year depending on the crop. Farmers in warmer climates just need to irrigate and they can crop 3 may 4 times a year without a significant rise in overheads. So the saving makes each crop cheaper and undercuts the Irish producer.

Companies do not have consciences only bottom lines. They can be forced to act as if they had a conscience by affecting the bottom line. Change your buying patterns and they will change their attitudes.

FillSpectre wrote:

If you let the industries die here when the fuel does run out you are in trouble

He's right you know.

Ciaran500 · 04-07-2006 09:51AM

FillSpectre wrote:

Not what I am saying. If you let the industries die here when the fuel does run out you are in trouble. People need to think beyond the immidiate savings. You do one thing with multiple effects.

The fuel isn't going to run out over night. When fuel prices rise to a level where importing become to costly, industries closer to home will come back.

englander · 04-07-2006 09:56AM

I find it really annoying, that you can't get decent spuds (or 'podados' as they say down here) for baking.

They are always manky awful things that they often put in bags with pictures on the packaging so you cant see the true awfulness of them til you get home. (Supervalu + Dunnes).

For a country supposed to be renowned for its potatoes I'm pretty dissapointed.
What happens ? Are all the good ones exported ?

The only decent ones I have seen are from Tesco imported from UK.

And Superquinn (not sure where they were from) but dont have a superquinn nearby.

Wishbone Ash · 04-07-2006 10:01AM

englander wrote:

I find it really annoying, that you can't get decent spuds (or 'podados' as they say down here) for baking.

They are always manky awful things that they often put in bags with pictures on the packaging so you cant see the true awfulness of them til you get home. (Supervalu + Dunnes).

For a country supposed to be renowned for its potatoes I'm pretty dissapointed.
What happens ? Are all the good ones exported ?

The only decent ones I have seen are from Tesco imported from UK.

And Superquinn (not sure where they were from) but dont have a superquinn nearby.

Part of the problem is that the ubiquituous 'Rooster' was developed to be all things to all people - boil, bake, roast, and chip (and cheap). Most of the potatoes sold in supermarkets tend to be Roosters. Try King Edwards or Golden Wonders for an alternative flavour. Expect to pay more.

FillSpectre · 04-07-2006 10:42AM

Ciaran500 wrote:

The fuel isn't going to run out over night. When fuel prices rise to a level where importing become to costly, industries closer to home will come back.

Yes that is why Dublin has so many tram lines working around the city!
Exports will become more expensive quick enough due to fuel and packaging. I personally think carbon tax is the way to go for the long term. It is protectionary but not without reason. Set-up cost will stop businesses coming back to life.

Ciaran500 · 04-07-2006 11:15AM

FillSpectre wrote:

Yes that is why Dublin has so many tram lines working around the city!

What?

FillSpectre wrote:

Exports will become more expensive quick enough due to fuel and packaging. I personally think carbon tax is the way to go for the long term. It is protectionary but not without reason.

What does the carbon tax involve? Surely we are already paying more than enough tax on fuels.

FillSpectre wrote:

Set-up cost will stop businesses coming back to life.

If there is money to be made people will invest.

ressem · 04-07-2006 11:20AM

They are always manky awful things that they often put in bags with pictures on the packaging so you cant see the true awfulness of them til you get home.

Not always, potatoes from Ireland are seasonal. You should be able to get excellent new potatoes at the moment. A month ago they were bottom of the barrel.
I rely on a local butcher/farmer that delivers, supplimenting her own stuff with that of colleagues. Works out at about the same as the supermarket. But I think most people don't consider the golden pages for ordering parts of the week's shopping.

FillSpectre · 04-07-2006 11:35AM

Ciaran500 wrote:

What?
Dublin had a large tram network, largest in Europe i hear, if it was easy to restart something after it was closed down we would not have spend so much money on the Luas.

Ciaran500 wrote:

What does the carbon tax involve? Surely we are already paying more than enough tax on fuels.

Carbon tax is not on fuel but on the item based on how far it travel. 50 miles cost 1 cent say. Some forms of transport cost more as they are less environmentally friendly. It is not a fuel tax it is a tax on the negative impact the product has on the environment

Ciaran500 wrote:

If there is money to be made people will invest.

Money does not circumvent life. Set-up costs may make it not worth money yet a sustained industry and/or business can keep going a lot easier. We can keep importing everything.

When businesses invest in something the state can't afford but we need we end up with the toll bridge. We can't keep exporting our waste and importing our fuel

fly_agaric · 04-07-2006 11:37AM

Ciaran2005 wrote:

What?

I think he meant that once an industry/infrastructure has decayed beyond a certain point it is quite difficult to get it going again even if it is viable.

i.e. if all the farmers don't pass on their skills to the next gen. (the current mantra is that agriculture in Ireland in general is going to be a dead-end waste of land, time and money - lets import cheaper food from places that have lots of exploitable labour and/or can do industrial agriculture on a massive scale with farms the size of EU countries) and the good ag. land is developed, it may be hard to get farming off the ground again even if it becomes economically viable and we have a dire need for it in the future.

But you probably knew that and were just being sarcastic!:)

Imported fruit and veg...madness!

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