Academics say maths should attract more CAO points [article]

lostexpectation · 12-06-2006 02:32PM #1

Academics say maths should attract more CAO points

The Royal Irish Academy says Leaving Cert students sitting their maths exam today should be given bonus points in an effort to revive interest in the subject.

The call comes amid growing concern about the declining number of pupils studying higher-level maths, with less than 20% of students taking the higher-level paper this year.

The RIA believes the difficulty of maths, physics and chemistry is putting people off studying these subjects and thereby leaving them ineligible for many science and engineering courses.

The academy says an A1 in maths, as well as physics and chemistry, should attract an extra 40 points to reflect the increased effort involved in studying such subjects.

why don't they just make it less hard?

brid_m · 12-06-2006 02:34PM

Exactly!! that'll make more people stick with it!!

delta_bravo · 12-06-2006 02:34PM

im not sure if this is true but i believe that many years ago maths was HARDER but worth double the points it was worth now. if this is true, i'd say the sec would be reluctant to change again

whassupp2 · 12-06-2006 02:35PM

..because the standard its at is the standard required for college courses. students with standard below this would struggle in engineering, maths courses etc.

simu · 12-06-2006 02:35PM

lostexpectation wrote:

why don't they just make it less hard?

That would be dumbing down.

Vegeta · 12-06-2006 02:48PM

whassupp2 wrote:

..because the standard its at is the standard required for college courses. students with standard below this would struggle in engineering, maths courses etc.

This guy is dead right

honors maths is not hard, its just thought poorly in most schools. My teacher was worse than me, our class of 8 people had to constantly correct her

100 points for an A1 in maths is spot on

People are often only told how to differentiate rather than why they are differentiating. I was giving my brother grinds and was amazed to see that his biggest problem was "not reading the question correctly/understanding what the question was asking". He could do all the calculations when i told him what he was being asked in simple terms.

Teachers need to put more emphasis on how to interpret questions i.e. what exactly am i being asked to do, rather than how to divide polynomial equations etc

Raphael · 12-06-2006 02:53PM

Limerick already do this, an A1 in maths is worth 125 points.

Faerie · 12-06-2006 03:06PM

I don't think giving Maths extra points is a good idea. If they raise the points, then loads of high-point corses will raise their points even further, so the points for a course like Medicine will go through the roof!
Besides if you start talking about raising the points for Maths because it's so difficult, then it means that people are going to start comparing other subjects and demanding higher/lower points for them. For example people will question if religion deserves to be awarded 100 points for an A1, or if Irish should be awarded more than French.

Dagnir Glaurung · 12-06-2006 03:54PM

I think it certainly should have extra points, for maths courses. The same should go for other subjects.

Raphael · 12-06-2006 04:57PM

Faerie: They didn't last time. Back when my mum did her leaving, and this was YEARS ago, you got 5 points for an A, 4 for a B, 3 for a C, or something like that. But in Maths you got 7 for an A, etc. Which meants you could get 32 points if you did Higher maths.

And, as I said, it's already executed in UL. And no ones complaining about it there.

dudara · 12-06-2006 04:59PM

The honours maths course is already after being dumbed-down enough. It needs to be made harder and taught better. Extra points for one subject is a form of favouritism

Faerie · 12-06-2006 05:10PM

Raphael wrote:

Faerie: They didn't last time. Back when my mum did her leaving, and this was YEARS ago, you got 5 points for an A, 4 for a B, 3 for a C, or something like that. But in Maths you got 7 for an A, etc. Which meants you could get 32 points if you did Higher maths.

And, as I said, it's already executed in UL. And no ones complaining about it there.

Seems weird getting just 5 points for an A!
But do you not think that it's just rewarding the mathematically-inclined students? I mean it would suit me because Maths and Physics are two of my strongest subjects (well until I ****ed up last Thursday!) but some people have no aptitude for Maths but excel at languages. A friend of mine really wants to be a doctor but he has no chance of getting the points because he's terrible at maths. He gets straight As in languages and Biology, but the maths in Physics and Chemistry drag his grades down. The terrible thing is he would be a brilliant doctor because he has great memory and, more importantly, would have good bedside manner. And maths doesn't really come into being a doctor. If the points were raised for maths I bet the points for medecine would rise even further simply because the amount of people applying for the course would rise as a result of them gaining points from the maths!
And it wouldn't encourage more people to take up the subjects because the reason they aren't taking them up is because they're just too hard for them!
I think it would be terribly unfair!!

Rockerette · 12-06-2006 05:22PM

thats a stupid idea

i hate maths, not cos i cant do it, i just think its a bit useless most of the time.
why give more points? for me it was just another option of "higher or ordinary maths?! pfft.. im not wasting my time doing higher level maths"

i do 7 other higher level subjects, so "to reflect the increased effort involved in studying such subjects." is a bit... pretentious of those mathematicians - who's to tell me that i dont deserve just as much credit for surviving the honours irish course?! i do physics too, but i wouldnt dare expect any more marks for it than any other subject

it made me laugh though. hehe

Raphael · 12-06-2006 05:38PM

It's not there to reward people for being good at maths, it's there to reward them for doing well in an exam that is the hardest one in the leaving cert.

Rockerette · 12-06-2006 06:10PM

Raphael wrote:

it's there to reward them for doing well in an exam that is the hardest one in the leaving cert.

in your opinion.

my sister did sweet fudge all in her maths for lc, did just the bare minimum, came out with an A2 - cos shes naturally good at maths.
she thought it was hte easiest subject, got her best result in it (higher level obviously)

you might find it the hardest, but not everyone does.

so yeah.. i think it does ultimatley reward those who are good at it

Raphael · 12-06-2006 06:19PM

I'm naturally good at maths, I always have been. I intend to do a degree in college that's next door to pure maths, because I love it. And I find higher maths a difficult subject. Seeing as you don't actually do it, you really can't talk.

Faerie · 12-06-2006 06:26PM

Raphael wrote:

I'm naturally good at maths, I always have been. I intend to do a degree in college that's next door to pure maths, because I love it. And I find higher maths a difficult subject. Seeing as you don't actually do it, you really can't talk.

Well I do it and I'm naturally good at it, and I think it would be unfair!

Raphael · 12-06-2006 06:29PM

I never said it would be fair.

. THe whole leaving cert isn;t anyway, this one change won;t make it fair.

smemon · 12-06-2006 06:32PM

i disagree with this drivel.

maths is one subject. there are 6 others. why should we favour maths ahead of english or irish?

all subjects should be equally treated. by increasing the points for maths you're saying "maths is more important than other subjects".

reality is maths isn't used by 99% of people after the leaving. it's boring and frustrating for the average paddy. these guys are trying to up the points value of it because they know it's dying a death - just like irish.

if maths was optional after JC, nobody would take it up. same as irish. :cool:

Raphael · 12-06-2006 06:34PM

Eh, no, you're an idiot. I need a B2 in Higher level maths for my course, and it's one of my favourite subjects.

DiscoMouse · 12-06-2006 06:35PM

Maybe it would be more fair to have double paper/core subjects reward extra points. Maths alone shouldn't be given special treatment.

Raphael · 12-06-2006 06:37PM

Tbh the best thing to do would be to operate a weighted mean system. So if you're applying for a science course, then sciences are worth 150 points max and art and languages are worth 75 or so. It'd be a logistical nightmare though.

Rockerette · 12-06-2006 06:38PM

Raphael wrote:

Seeing as you don't actually do it, you really can't talk.

oooh. that told me....

honey, im entitled to an opinion just as much as you are, so get the sam hell over yourself

if youre so good at it how do you find it difficult? or how can you say its the hardest subject...?
to me you just contradicted yourself...

either way, its a stupid idea

DiscoMouse · 12-06-2006 06:41PM

Raphael wrote:

Tbh the best thing to do would be to operate a weighted mean system. So if you're applying for a science course, then sciences are worth 150 points max and art and languages are worth 75 or so. It'd be a logistical nightmare though.

If we had that kind of resources, we could just go for continuous assessment

Raphael · 12-06-2006 06:42PM

You're as entitled to an opinion about the difficulty of higher maths as I am to an opinion about the difficulty of ordinary maths.

DiscoMouse: Continous assessment would be nice alright.

12-06-2006 06:45PM

It'd be interesting to read up on the drop out rate in UL for any and all courses which have a medium to heavy mathematics component in them.

Faerie · 12-06-2006 06:46PM

DiscoMouse wrote:

If we had that kind of resources, we could just go for continuous assessment

I used to be dead against continuous assessment because I didn't like the idea of having to work all year! But now I think it would be a good idea because my nerves have been getting to me so much this week. I think the leaving cert really is too stressful!!

Rockerette · 12-06-2006 06:48PM

(edit: to Raphael ) oh good god, seriously

im not saying higher is easy.. never once DID i say that, nor would I EVER, as i dont do it... personally i think ordinary level maths is a piss take its so easy..

but you didnt exactly take my point on board - you said its the hardest subject. i merely pointed out that for some people, eg. my sister, it required hardly any effort to get an A. and for that reason, its not fair that people should just get more points.

she only got an A in maths, and economics.. she found other subjects far more difficult.

thast my point.

so again, just.. get over yourself and your wonderful honours maths ability

Funkstard · 12-06-2006 06:50PM

smemon wrote:

i disagree with this drivel.

maths is one subject. there are 6 others. why should we favour maths ahead of english or irish?

all subjects should be equally treated. by increasing the points for maths you're saying "maths is more important than other subjects".

reality is maths isn't used by 99% of people after the leaving. it's boring and frustrating for the average paddy. these guys are trying to up the points value of it because they know it's dying a death - just like irish.

if maths was optional after JC, nobody would take it up. same as irish. :cool:

Yeh well done maths is dying, it isn't the driving force behind every recent/major technological innovation at all.

smemon · 12-06-2006 06:51PM

Raphael wrote:

Eh, no, you're an idiot. I need a B2 in Higher level maths for my course, and it's one of my favourite subjects.

so.... just because you like something doesnt mean every does. the majority of people don't like maths, therefore it would be idiotic to give it higher points as it would create a big divide.

english imo is the most important subject on the LC. it's the language we speak, the only fluent language we speak yet not many can master it.

upping the points in english would not only produce a higher standard of writing, it would also prove beneficial to the economy as spelling, letters, creativity increases.

but is that sensible - no. because people will neglect other subjects then. it gets too complicated if you go weighting subjects.... the system is fine the way it is.

Raphael · 12-06-2006 06:51PM

Rockerette: To tell you the truth, I'm just being deliberatly argumentative here. It beats studying for biology. =D. Sorry. I couldn;t really care about what changes they make, I'm finished

Academics say maths should attract more CAO points [article]

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