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When you know you're not the best player at the table

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Comments

  • #32
    Ste05
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    RoundTower wrote:
    When I am in the BB my strategy will be to call if my hand is 55% or better against your range.
    This is basically what a Kill Philler is playing for, he is actively seeking races, it's the only chance he has in the tournament. The likes of Phil Hellmuth, Ivey, etc. try not to get into races for their tournament life, because they can outplay most opponents on the flop, turn or river. Hence why it is effective, it negates the skill (or edge) a better player has against them and they are forced into race situations that they don't want to be in. This player could be pushing with AA or with 78s, you just have to be willing to gamble with them.

    Although, it's not really a heads up strategy in general, there's another slight variation for HU play, so discussing it in that context is a waste of time.

    What it's designed for is examples such as this. Just say you're playing in the WSOP and at your table is Phil Laak, Phil Hellmuth, Phil Ivey, Doyle Brunson, Gus Hanson, Andy Black, Chris Ferguson, Internet Qualifier A (a Kill Philler) and yourself. Say you all have between 60 - 100B's.

    Now how do you outplay this player without getting better cards than him?
    RoundTower wrote:
    This is my strategy to exploit your strategy:
    This isn't my strategy, I don't like it, all I'm saying is that it effectively reduces the edge a better player has over a novice. I haven't read the whole book, because I don't ever plan on playing like this, so I can't comment on the minute details of the strategy, but the generality makes sense to me
    RoundTower wrote:
    Isn't this how everyone plays?
    I certainly don't, do you routinely over bet flops??


  • #33
    NickyOD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,124 ✭✭✭NickyOD


    Ste05 wrote:
    This is basically what a Kill Philler is playing for, he is actively seeking races, it's the only chance he has in the tournament. The likes of Phil Hellmuth, Ivey, etc. try not to get into races for their tournament life, because they can outplay most opponents on the flop, turn or river. Hence why it is effective, it negates the skill (or edge) a better player has against them and they are forced into race situations that they don't want to be in. This player could be pushing with AA or with 78s, you just have to be willing to gamble with them.

    This is just muddled thinking. Firstly a bad player adopting this strategy isn't even good enough to recognise when he is in a race situation. For example A player raises with Jacks bad player reads him wrong and goes all in with 7s and gets called.

    Also a good player is likely to be able to put the bad palyer on AK/AQ and and would quite happily accept a race with pocket Tens. It's a good palyer who will find these edges and exploit them not avoid them.


  • #34
    RoundTower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭RoundTower


    Ste05 wrote:
    all I'm saying is that it effectively reduces the edge a better player has over a novice.

    No, that is what I was saying. You were saying
    Ste05 wrote:
    The only time a more skillful player has an edge over you is post flop.
    and I disagreed, and I gave an example of how I could outplay you if you insisted on only pushing or folding preflop.

    To outplay this "Kill Philler" at the WSOP table of Doom you don't have to get better cards than him, you just play big pots when you have better cards and you don't play at all when you have crap cards. That should be Poker 101.


  • #35
    Ste05
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    NickyOD wrote:
    This is just muddled thinking. Firstly a bad player adopting this strategy isn't even good enough to recognise when he is in a race situation. For example A player raises with Jacks bad player reads him wrong and goes all in with 7s and gets called.

    Also a good player is likely to be able to put the bad palyer on AK/AQ and and would quite happily accept a race with pocket Tens. It's a good palyer who will find these edges and exploit them not avoid them.
    Firstly he doesn't call or re-raise with 77.
    Secondly he doesn't need any skill he has cards that tell him what to do.
    Thirdly there's no reading other players, he just plays according to a formula. Then picks a spot on the felt and stares at it. Glasses and Hoody up tight.
    Fourthly The whole point of the strategy is to get into these races. If he wins them then he has a hope, but if he doesn't take them then he doesn't have any chance.
    RoundTower wrote:
    No, that is what I was saying. You were saying

    and I disagreed, and I gave an example of how I could outplay you if you insisted on only pushing or folding preflop.

    To outplay this "Kill Philler" at the WSOP table of Doom you don't have to get better cards than him, you just play big pots when you have better cards and you don't play at all when you have crap cards. That should be Poker 101.
    OK, what I was saying was that you couldn't outplay this player, just accept races or not. the "Phil's" have no need to race, because they can outplay most people through the streets.

    I still haven't seen how this strategy can be outplayed without accepting possible races.

    And you can't play big pots with this player unless the chips are All-In fairly early in the hand.

    Again, I don't think this strategy is all that great, but I think it does what it says on the tin...


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