Armed robber gets owned!

Maccattack · 25-03-2006 01:06PM

Its a shame their was a mother and child there at the time. If they werent there then I would say good on him. The shooter should have thought of them, but obviously he wasnt thinking clearly.

Our house was broken into one night when i was away. My missus and kids were in the house when some scumbag tried to get in. even when she stirred and put the lights on he kept trying to get in. What was he up to?

She has never been the same since. She cant sleep in the house if im not there.

You do-gooders think we should just give these people a big hug and shrug off their intrusions. Get real. wait til it happens to you.

Cake Fiend · 25-03-2006 01:09PM

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

a trigger-happy gun fanatic used his co-worker as a shield, and discharged a weapon inches from a small child, endangering the lives of all concerned

I'm not sure you're watching the same video the rest of us are watching. In our version, the clerk wisely conceals the drawing of his weapon, then immediately tries to pass behind his (rather obstructionally-sized) colleague to aim. I saw far more than a few inches between the gun and the child, and also the trajectory of the bullets. The lives of all concerned were endangered by the robber, who was the first to reveal a weapon. The clerk, well-trained in firearm use (and obviously trusted by the local authorities to carry a concealed weapon), took the steps he deemed necessary to neutralize a potentially lethal threat to him and the bystanders.

Let's have a little less of the over-dramatic, hyperbolic righteousness, eh? You might be taken more seriously.

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

Anybody raising a gun should fully expect to die for it? Interesting. One of the greatest achievements of modern society is the rule of law, not the rule of emotion.

Let's take a methodical look at it then: if you threaten an innocent person with a lethal weapon, you are a threat to their life. That person has a constitutional right to use reasonable force (in this case, lethal force) in order to protect themselves. Therefore, anyone raising a gun to an innocent person should certainly be aware of the possibility of that person killing them in self-defence.

Manic Moran · 25-03-2006 07:19PM

One of the greatest achievements of modern society is the rule of law,

And you will be quite happy to note that in the jurisdiction where this occurred, the rule of law says "If you threaten my life, I can kill you." I believe such is also the case in Ireland, actually. Only difference is that the means to do so is not so readily available.

NTM

mloc · 25-03-2006 11:50PM

if only he had a bigger gun might have killed the scumbag. no doubt about, if you go into a business armed with a gun to rob the place, no apologies for getting killed doing it.

if he had died, they should have sued the guys estate for mental anguish for the poor shop owner.

llanero · 26-03-2006 05:38AM

transylman wrote:

I've seen worse. A crook walks in to a clothes shop or something in america. The guy at the register pulls out his own gun and a shoot out ensues with the crook taking cover behind a clothes rack. The crook is eventually taken out with some body shots. The guy working in the shop then walks over to the him and pumps some more shots into the non-moving body in the ground. I'm not going to post a link because frankly I found the whole thing disgusting.

If it makes you feel better, that video was staged.

blu_sonic · 26-03-2006 05:43AM

Thak god we can't own guns here, too many morons who shoot first ask questions later. america has so much to answer for, too many lives lost for the sake of gun touting machoism. people who don't understand responsibility.

gerrycollins · 26-03-2006 08:38AM

ok do gooders giving out about guns and shootinh scumbags etc answer this were you ever held at gun point?

i f****ng was and i would have done the exact same if i was in his shoes given the oppertunitity,there is no deterant in this country for criminals,jail scentences are too short and the jails too cushy and do you think that half the crimes would happen if there was a chance the scumbags would get shot back at,they wouldnt cause most crime is drug fuelled and done by bullys who need teacheing a lesson,only yesterday my life was treathened again by a little scum who needs a good trashing but do gooders like yerselves stop me

civdef · 26-03-2006 09:04AM

Thak god we can't own guns here,

Yeah, if we "could own guns here", I'm sure the death toll would be huge....

Manic Moran · 26-03-2006 09:10AM

Thak god we can't own guns here

Dude, hop over to the shooting forum.

You can own firearms in Ireland which are illegal here in California. I'm actually kindof pissed about that. The difference, as has been pointed out, is cultural. Americans have become weak on personal and collective social responsibility. (I blame the parents, personally). That's not the fault of the firearms.

NTM

blu_sonic · 26-03-2006 03:16PM

gerrycollins wrote:

ok do gooders giving out about guns and shootinh scumbags etc answer this were you ever held at gun point?

i f****ng was and i would have done the exact same if i was in his shoes given the oppertunitity,there is no deterant in this country for criminals,jail scentences are too short and the jails too cushy and do you think that half the crimes would happen if there was a chance the scumbags would get shot back at,they wouldnt cause most crime is drug fuelled and done by bullys who need teacheing a lesson,only yesterday my life was treathened again by a little scum who needs a good trashing but do gooders like yerselves stop me

i was held at syringe point, i wanted to batter the junkie but i didn't for 2 reasons
1. i was in work it isn't my money and its insured.
2. why risk my life or wellbeing in an attemt to beat up this guy

the police caught him a few doors up the road, they asked me if i felt my life was in danger i said yes, they sent him to prison (eventually)
i don't think its my place to adminster the law im not a vigilante i'm happy to see the law carried out by the police

manic moran wrote:

Dude, hop over to the shooting forum.

You can own firearms in Ireland which are illegal here in California. I'm actually kindof pissed about that. The difference, as has been pointed out, is cultural. Americans have become weak on personal and collective social responsibility. (I blame the parents, personally). That's not the fault of the firearms.

NTM

true we can own guns i ment to say "thank god guns aren't as easy to own over here" and as far as i know (though im not expert) you can't own a handgun, the fact that guns aren't as accesable means there are obviously less shooting.

look at the rants in here, "skangers need wiping out" etc. surely that is a gun-ho attitude. i think "skangers" "junkies" "scumbags" all need HELP not shooting, look at all the people that have gone on to become productive members of society after counciling. I know this from my friend who councils durg addicts.

HommieDaKlown · 26-03-2006 07:16PM

This man followed the robbers instructions and did not fightback or pull a gun and ended up dead in the back room. Thats right, they took the money and murdered him for NO reason.

Clerk fatally shot in 7-11 robbery
Joe Nelson, Staff Writer

APPLE VALLEY - A 7-Eleven clerk complied with two robbers who demanded cash early Tuesday, but he was killed anyway in what authorities are calling a senseless murder.
William Edward Gould, a 31-year-old Apple Valley resident, father and college student, was shot multiple times after the robbers led him into a back room at the store in the 17900 block of Highway 18 at Apple Valley Road, authorities said.

Sheriff's deputies found Gould's body at 1:44 a.m.

"They forced him behind the counter and forced him to open the two cash registers, and then they take him into the back room and murdered him," sheriff's Sgt. T.A. Peters said. "He (Gould) was very cooperative. It was a senseless murder. Very coldblooded and callous."

The robbery was captured on a surveillance video.

Two men walked into the convenience store at 12:55 a.m. and confronted Gould as he swept the floor in an aisle, Peters said.

Gould's assailants are believed to have escaped in a car parked in an alley behind the store. The car was found about a mile east of the store, Peters said, declining to specify the exact location or the car's make and model.

Detectives in the sheriff's High Tech Crime Detail were busy Tuesday working to produce photos from the surveillance tape clean enough and sharp enough to run through a database of criminal photos

for possible matches. The photos will likely be distributed to the media as well, Peters said.

After the robbery and shooting, several customers entered the store. One customer reached behind the counter, grabbed a pack of cigarettes, and left some money and a note for the clerk, Peters said.

"It said, `Didn't know where you were, left some money for some smokes,' " Peters said of the note. "A good 50 minutes went by people coming in and they couldn't find the clerk."

Finally, about 1:30 a.m., a man walked into the store, saw the money on the counter and noticed the clerk missing. He went across the street to a gas station and called 9-1-1. Responding deputies found Gould's body at 1:44 a.m. nearly an hour after the shooting, Peters said.

Gould was married with a young son and two stepchildren. He attended Victor Valley Community College in Victorville with his wife, Peters said.

"He was working to pay bills," Peters said.

An autopsy is scheduled for 10 a.m. today.

Here is another edit of the shooting. Keep in mind. The clerk is a firearms instructor, the crook is a REPEAT OFFENDER AND CONVICTED FELON. After everything was said and done, the mother and the fellow employee thanked the clerk and testified at the trial. The other clerk was inspired after the incident to also get a concealed carry permit and take firearms training. The Police that arrived on scene later thanked the clerk as well. The bad guy did not die, instead he got put away.

What would you all say if the clerk was armed, but did not act. If he just let the guy have the money the crook may have shot them all to death. What would you be saying then when the news story broke that a man who could have changed the outcome failed to act.

This police officer was armed, he watched the other man load his rifle. He gave him multiple warnings and was well withing his rights to open fire. But the officer has hesitant to shoot the man. No one wants to kill another person. But failing to act in this instance cost him his life. (I caution you this video is VERY Graphic. I didn't know what was on it before I watched it the first time and it made me sick to my stomach) Failure to act can get you killed whether you're a police officer or a citizen.

Someone also mentioned a video of a shootout in a clothing store. FYI that was a fake film shot by a film stundet.

Manic Moran · 26-03-2006 07:25PM

blu_sonic wrote:

true we can own guns i ment to say "thank god guns aren't as easy to own over here" and as far as i know (though im not expert) you can't own a handgun,

I rest my case. You can own handguns in Ireland. Please reference the aforementioned shooting forum, with threads such as 'recommend a handgun.'

NTM

blu_sonic · 26-03-2006 08:10PM

Like i said im not an expert, but you must admit guns are harder to come accross here than the states? and hence less shootings, maybe it the american psyche of guns i don't know im not a psychiatrist.

nlgbbbblth · 26-03-2006 09:12PM

Complaining about what 'might have happened' is pointless.

In this case the end justified the means.

If the mother and baby had been hurt then yes, it would be permissible to question the clerk's actions. But they weren't.

One important point is being overlooked: the robber started all this, not the clerk. Therefore he should take the lion's share of the blame.

Choosing to lambast the clerk for his actions as opposed to the robber for his thieving and murderous intent is tantamount to justifying armed robbery.

blu_sonic · 26-03-2006 09:18PM

i agree that the theif is 100% in the wrong, but neither of them should have guns imo

Manic Moran · 26-03-2006 09:34PM

blu_sonic wrote:

i agree that the theif is 100% in the wrong, but neither of them should have guns imo

I guess it's not worth pointing out that as a previously convicted felon, the robber legally should not have had a firearm? (US law prohibits it). Heaven forbid that someone carrying out crimes should worry over whether or not he's allowed to have the revolver he's using.

(Canadian cartoon)

Whilst idealism has its place, how would you suggest putting the genie back in the bottle? Firearms exist. In some places in the US, they are a practical necessity, unless you want to become bear food or some such when you go for a fishing trip: Even if you wanted to totally ban all 'legal' firearms, it shouldn't be done. As long as they exist, they have the possibility of being misused, be they obtained legally or otherwise. I submit that since the genie is out of the bottle anyway, it makes sense that law abiding persons be placed on an equal footing to criminals, both for their own protection, and as a crime deterrent.

NTM

blu_sonic · 26-03-2006 09:58PM

Oh i understand compleatly what your saing and i agree with the "genie out of the bottle" statment, i'm just glad guns aren't as widely available here

Armed robber gets owned!

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