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Stardust Silver Swan objection

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  • #62
    lodgepole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,810 ✭✭✭lodgepole


    snickerpuss wrote:
    You're saying that the people who i see protesting with signs etc outside maxol have been smashing peoples windows?
    I find that somewhat hard to believe.
    Actually he's saying that people he has seen protesting peacefully in this instance have been seen protesting violently in another instance.


  • #63
    MorningStar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭MorningStar


    It is unbelievable that people who are not old enough to remember the events aftwards claim to know what happened. I don't remeber the precise details or certain things and not sure what happened when I lived away from the area. Instead of people wondering what the facts are they would prefer these people have done no wrong becasue something bad happened. Grief is anger very quickly and a big factor of the horror of this story was how it pulled the community apart not just those who lost family members. THey had people on Joe Duffy before the anniversery tell about how they had to leave the country for their own safety. This is the reality I remember growing up. I remember angry people. If you weren't there are not old enought to remeber don't deny my memories based on your lack of knowledge.

    I am asking questions to get a clear picture instead I am getting people defend something they know nothing about.

    THe judge has told the campaigners they don't really have any grounds to object and adjourned it till tomorrow. They news still caliming the pub is on the same site which is not ture

    It is also just the transfer of the licen name holder so it really isn't as reported


  • #64
    MorningStar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭MorningStar


    Lodgepole wrote:
    Actually he's saying that people he has seen protesting peacefully in this instance have been seen protesting violently in another instance.
    Thank you that is correct bad typing gets me


  • #65
    BadAcidStudios
    Closed Accounts Posts: 107 ✭✭BadAcidStudios


    "Actually he's saying that people he has seen protesting peacefully in this instance have been seen protesting violently in another instance".

    Morningstar, have you seen people at the maxol who you have also seen being involved in seperate violent incidents. Is morning star checking the group of people protesting on a daily basis. If so, why doesnt he go and have a chat with them. It seems that he is so desperate to know why they are there

    And even "IF" he has seen people there who were involved in violent crap, you cant paint them all with the same brush.

    I have to say Morning star, it took a while for you to actually come out with that little gem. What a silly comment to make. Also very slanderous

    I dont for one minute believe that you have seen people involved in this Peaceful protest who you have also seen in violent protests. I mean, you sure are in the right place at the right time. It took a while for you to resort to these childish lies to suit your argument


  • #66
    HelterSkelter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭HelterSkelter


    MorningStar wrote:
    I have heard about the Satrdust Campaginer (SC) are complaining about the Silver Swan opening on the site of the old disco but I am a bit confused. The Silver Swan has been there years and I am not even sure how long it has been closed...I am really not sure what the SC are making such a big deal about it now.

    Found this article which says...
    There was outrage when it emerged that the owners of the Stardust plan to re-open a plush new bar at Butterly Business Park. The victims’ hurt and anger has been compounded by the fact that the pub has now reverted to its original name, The Silver Swan, which it was called at the time of the disaster.
    Until recently the bar was trading as Skellys Lounge but it is understood that the licence was transferred back to the Butterly family late last year.

    From that it sounds like the renewed protests are bacause Butterly is back in control of the bar and he has renamed it to the Silver Swan. Seems a bit insensitive to me. Can anybody verify this?

    You need to go through a cached Google page to read the article:
    http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:P1GuFEJNTWIJ:www.dublinpeople.com/cms/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D787%26Itemid%3D52+silver+swan+stardust&hl=en&gl=ie&ct=clnk&cd=4


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  • #67
    BadAcidStudios
    Closed Accounts Posts: 107 ✭✭BadAcidStudios


    "It is unbelievable that people who are not old enough to remember the events aftwards claim to know what happened"

    Who the feck is claiming to know what happened. we are talking about what is happening NOW. we are all aware of what is happening now. This is what we are talking about. NOW NOW NOW. YOU asked why are the protesters making such a big deal of it NOW.

    Dont say we arent old enough to know what happened then, you just are too imature to understand whats going on now


  • #68
    BadAcidStudios
    Closed Accounts Posts: 107 ✭✭BadAcidStudios


    well, the disco that went on fire was called "Stardust"

    "The news is still claiming the pub is on the same site which is not ture"- morningstar 9

    look buddy, we are taking about the same business park. It may not be the exact same footprint of the stardust but it is owned by the same guy in the same general area.

    The application seeks permission for alternations to a car park on the eastern side of Butterly Business Park, close to the site on which the Stardust once stood


  • #69
    Jorja
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭Jorja


    This is what I have heard The disco was called Stardust, the lounge / bar in the Stardust was called the silver swan, when the Stadust burned down and the lounge / bar was reopened it was called Skelly's, then Buttlery was revamping the premises was planning to reopen the new lounge / bar renaming it Silver Swan on 14.02.06 - the 25th anniversary hence the anger of the victims / families


  • #70
    MorningStar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭MorningStar


    HelterSkelter wrote:
    Found this article which says...

    Thank you that was what I was looking for. I think that is clear that people are objecting becasue of the licence holder not the fact it was a pub.
    They way I remeber it it the pub was called Skellys (later 88 maybe) but the snooker hall remained the Silver Swan and the night club was called Crazy Joe's which was beside the snooker hall.
    BadAcidStudios wrote:
    Who the feck is claiming to know what happened. we are talking about what is happening NOW. we are all aware of what is happening now. This is what we are talking about. NOW NOW NOW. YOU asked why are the protesters makink such a big deal of it NOW.
    Lets be clear you accuse me of lying one way or the other and claim these people have not done things I have seen them do. The people complaining now are doing so not becasue there is a pub there but becasue they don't like the owner ,as far as I can see. THe answer to why they are doing this is not an objection to a pub but the fact now the pub licencee is the man they hold responsible. So vegence seems to be the reason. I have heard on the radio from the people how they don't think the man should make any money from the location.


  • #71
    BadAcidStudios
    Closed Accounts Posts: 107 ✭✭BadAcidStudios


    "Lets be clear you accuse me of lying one way or the other and claim these people have not done things I have seen them do. The people complaining now are doing so not becasue there is a pub there but becasue they don't like the owner ,as far as I can see. THe answer to why they are doing this is not an objection to a pub but the fact now the pub licencee is the man they hold responsible. So vegence seems to be the reason. I have heard on the radio from the people how they don't think the man should make any money from the location." - Morningstar

    look buddy. who are these people, you obviously have a really good memory for faces or do you know them personally. I am interested because everyday i pass these people and they look like a bingo club, not the thugs you want us to believe they are. (which is pretty low i must add, and pretty convenient for you). A few people with signs that say "Beep" I have to laugh at your low attempt to prove a point.

    I dont believe that vengence alone have these people out there. I would agree that some people would not like to see him make money in that area while there are so many unanswered questions about his other club that burnt down killing 48 people. i dont think you will find many people who would say anything contrary to this. But i certainly doubt that is the only or MAIN reason why they are there. And i dont think its fair to presume they are just a bunch of vengeful thugs.

    If a food comany was selling food that made people really sick, you would want this company properly investegated before they were allowed make money by selling food again. I think its totally human nature and the right thing to do. How can you disagree. As far as these people are concerned this man still needs to be investigated.

    If anyone wants to see how ridiculous Morningstars image of these people is, just drive on past the maxol t artane. Really, its digusting the way you are talking about these people who are harming nobody

    i end with this question. Of the people down protesting at the maxol. How many and when did you see these people commit these violent acts.


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  • #72
    MorningStar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭MorningStar


    BadAcidStudios wrote:

    look buddy, we are taking about the same business park. It may not be the exact same footprint of the stardust but it is owned by the same guy in the same general area.

    The application seeks permission for alternations to a car park on the eastern side of Butterly Business Park, close to the site on which the Stardust once stood

    Lets be very very clear. The pub was there before and after the fire. The people didn't start protesting untill they were told the licence was changed to Butterly. I know people who lost family memeber in the fire who drank in this pub after the fire.
    Butterly owns the entire park AFAIK.

    The planning was applied for in March not February so the bit about the ad in the paper doesn't make sense either.

    I think you might need to understand some people take advantage of situations for their own gain. Why don't you ask the people protesting which political party is helping them. What happens now in the present is realted to the past to ignore the past is to misunderstand the present.


  • #73
    HelterSkelter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭HelterSkelter


    MorningStar wrote:
    Lets be very very clear. The pub was there before and after the fire. The people didn't start protesting untill they were told the licence was changed to Butterly.
    That's fair enough isn't it? I would do the same.
    MorningStar wrote:
    I think you might need to understand some people take advantage of situations for their own gain. Why don't you ask the people protesting which political party is helping them. What happens now in the present is realted to the past to ignore the past is to misunderstand the present.
    That comes as no surprise to me. Politicial Parties will jump on any bandwagon if they think it is going to gain votes for them. That doesn't mean the people should not be protesting.


  • #74
    BadAcidStudios
    Closed Accounts Posts: 107 ✭✭BadAcidStudios


    look man, if your gonna state facts at least give us a link.

    oh i see. we are moving onto a new angle now.
    Look, i dont know why i have bothered to reply all day.

    All i want to say is. The people have a right to protest as long as its done the correct way. I support the way they are protesting now. And im not going to judge them for doing something that is obviously very important to them. They are not blocking the garage or anything. they are just standing there making a visible protest. What is your problem with them. it has obviously infuriated you. Why.

    "some people take advantage of situations for their own gain" cmon now mate. SO THEY THEY ARE A BUNCH OF VENGEFUL THUGS WHO ARE POLITICALY MOTIVATED. Seriously, for your own good and to get some life experience. take a trip down and have that chat.


  • #75
    MorningStar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭MorningStar


    HelterSkelter wrote:
    That's fair enough isn't it? I would do the same.

    Actually I understand completely why they are doing as it being fair I don't think so. You should use correct channels to make a point. Whether the law should allow this is pretty straight forward. Butterly has been not found guilty of what people feel he is responsible for. After you are investigated and found innocent you should not be punished or harrassed by individuals or a group who still hold you responsible. If youo serve your time you can't harrass people. So I don't think it is fair enough and is intimidation


    That comes as no surprise to me. Politicial Parties will jump on any bandwagon if they think it is going to gain votes for them. That doesn't mean the people should not be protesting.[/QUOTE]

    THere is a particular party pushing the buttons here from what I know but I am not 100% and many people think of the party in a very particular way. As I said there is a person from the group saying they will run for office to get another enquiry. One way for a party to get a seat
    These people are grieving and I think they are being taken advantage of instead of helped.


  • #76
    HelterSkelter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭HelterSkelter


    MorningStar wrote:
    Actually I understand completely why they are doing as it being fair I don't think so. You should use correct channels to make a point. Whether the law should allow this is pretty straight forward. Butterly has been not found guilty of what people feel he is responsible for. After you are investigated and found innocent you should not be punished or harrassed by individuals or a group who still hold you responsible. If youo serve your time you can't harrass people. So I don't think it is fair enough and is intimidation
    If somebody was responsible for the death of a family member of mine, if they were investigated and got away with it because they had powerful friends I would be very píssed off. If the law was not going to make them pay for what they done I would make them pay in my own way. Protesting outside their premises to cause them loss of revenue is definitely one way I would go about it.
    MorningStar wrote:
    THere is a particular party pushing the buttons here from what I know but I am not 100% and many people think of the party in a very particular way. As I said there is a person from the group saying they will run for office to get another enquiry. One way for a party to get a seat
    These people are grieving and I think they are being taken advantage of instead of helped.
    If they are trying to take advantage of the protestors then that is not fair at all. What party is it? Tri-colour wavers?


  • #77
    BadAcidStudios
    Closed Accounts Posts: 107 ✭✭BadAcidStudios


    "Whether the law should allow this is pretty straight forward. Butterly has been not found guilty of what people feel he is responsible for. After you are investigated and found innocent you should not be punished or harrassed by individuals or a group who still hold you responsible. If youo serve your time you can't harrass people. So I don't think it is fair enough and is intimidation"- Morningstar

    Eh, how many times has the law and invetigations been wrong. New evidence is sometimes found, better forensic abilities improve as technology gets better. Cases are always being reopened when new evidence comes to light. Sometimes innocent people are locked away and if it wasnt for the constant work by their families and legal teams they would stay in prison forever. Do you expect people always to accept the result. How many times have verdicts been overturned. That is also why we have apeals and retrials. This is what the families is trying to do, Dont you see?


  • #78
    MorningStar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭MorningStar


    BadAcidStudios wrote:
    look man, if your gonna state facts at least give us a link.

    I tried posting up the planning permission application but the link wouldn't work just search under the Kilmore Road from the 1st day of the year on WWW.dublincity.ie

    oh i see. we are moving onto a new angle now.
    Look, i dont know why i have bothered to reply all day.
    BadAcidStudios wrote:
    All i want to say is. The people have a right to protest as long as its done the correct way. I support the way they are protesting now. And im not going to judge them for doing something that is obviously very important to them. They are not blocking the garage or anything. they are just standing there making a visible protest. What is your problem with them. it has obviously infuriated you. Why.
    Well as they are protest on the the grounds of the licence being transfered to the old owner they aren't protesting correctly. Their goal is for a new enquiry not a huge objection to a pub that operated for 24 years on that site after the fire. WHy they are campaiging is a corruption of all legal channels and a manipulation of the system. I have seem at least one memember of this group do similar with violence. Your defence seems to be they are right and it is all peaceful and has no other consequences. This is a method to get results not a legitimate complaint against the pub. They wll get publicity anfd again talk about another enquiry.
    BadAcidStudios wrote:
    "some people take advantage of situations for their own gain" cmon now mate. SO THEY THEY ARE A BUNCH OF VENGEFUL THUGS WHO ARE POLITICALY MOTIVATED. Seriously, for your own good and to get some life experience. take a trip down and have that chat.

    You know I have not insulted you once yet you have accused me of lying and now lack of experience without any knowledge on my life. My life experience of this subject is more rounded than yours. How old were you when it happened?

    Stop calling me mate or buddy we are far from it. If you insult me once more I am just adding you to my ignore list that simple. You can think what you like but if you want to ignore facts to keep your opinion it doesn't bother me.


  • #79
    BadAcidStudios
    Closed Accounts Posts: 107 ✭✭BadAcidStudios


    Mate/buddy please add me to your ignore list now. Thanks.

    Wont matter, you have been ignoring me all day.


    hugs and kisses for you


  • #80
    MorningStar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭MorningStar


    BadAcidStudios wrote:
    This is what the families is trying to do, Dont you see?


    Yes I see perfectly it is harrasment and vegence you seem to think it is fair but I suggest you look up those two words. THese people are try to make this man pay becasue they feel he is guilty. Now read my first post and consider what you just said annd see that you are agreeing with the difference is you think it is right I don't.
    I think other people are helping for thier own gain and not helping these people.


  • #81
    Heinrich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Heinrich


    Lok, you started a thread on an extremely delicate issue. Mow you are displaying a self righteous indignation because someone is calling you "mate" or "buddy"

    Stop throwing your toys out of the pram and grow up to the age that you claim to be.


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  • #82
    BadAcidStudios
    Closed Accounts Posts: 107 ✭✭BadAcidStudios


    who is hleping for their own gain. you say such general things with no means to back it up

    Who political is involved. Can i meet these people at the protest. what are their names
    Who are the people you saw being violent before. are they protesting at the maxol. what do they look like, what are their names. Have you actually seen these people at the protest.

    all hearsay


    Has there been any violence or intimidation at the maxol. Answer NO!

    The public beeping their horns in agreement is the only thing you will hear


  • #83
    MorningStar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭MorningStar


    Heinrich wrote:
    Lok, you started a thread on an extremely delicate issue. Mow you are displaying a self righteous indignation because someone is calling you "mate" or "buddy"

    Stop throwing your toys out of the pram and grow up to the age that you claim to be.
    He called me a liar and claimed i had no life experience. You suggested I lied about my age also

    The facts are
    1) The pub was there and open untill last year
    2) The objections are based on the owner not the existance of a pub
    3) There is no proof the pub was to open on the 14th only media speculation
    4) Planning permission was applied for after the 14th of February
    5) The pub is not new
    6) Objections were made only after the change of licence
    7) One person from the group said they will run for local government
    8) Threats were made against the Butterly family and other memebers or staff with some being physically attacked

    You want to believe these people are right with there cause fine. If any other group were to make cliams that weren't true to such an extent they would be pulled up on it. I wanted to know the facts and people would prefer to to atttack me just for asking. To ask questions should not be ridiculed. To state things as I remember them as I grew up in the area was met with the same riddicule.Unless you remember growing up in the area you don't have a clue. Did you grow up in the area when this was going on?


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