Post/Zip codes and Ireland

Slice · 09-01-2006 02:26PM

I think we have a shinner in our midst

dts · 09-01-2006 02:50PM

Why do you always want to be different?
The UK postal service is far better than the Irish so why not adopt there system? The last thing you want is to start to try to use a language that most people here dont understand.
As most of the things you buy off the net are from the UK it would make total sense to follow there post code system. Bring in the royal mail and paint all the green vans red!

monument · 09-01-2006 03:02PM

Maskhadov wrote:

how is 500 Sráid Odása confusing ?

It's Odessa Street, how do I know? Google.

Otherwise, I was thinking "Sráid, is that strand... or?".

It’s a bit sad, it even saddens me a bit, I didn’t know. But the point is, how on earth can you say how could that be confusing?

I’m afraid to inform you English is my first language – and it was a hard enough of a job teach me and loads of others English.

MrPudding · 09-01-2006 03:14PM

Maskhadov wrote:

how is 500 Sráid Odása confusing ?

I don't even know how to pronounce it. Further, I have no interest in knowing how to pronounce it.

MrP

Victor · 09-01-2006 03:16PM

Maskhadov wrote:

500 Sráid Odása

What is "Odása"? Why only use Irish when the usual names are in English?

Most country roads have names already, they just don't have nameplates.

Maskhadov · 09-01-2006 03:51PM

Alun
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maskhadov
Im [not] going into that Alun because its off thread. In short i think Anglo Saxons are odd, germans do things the right way but some important gene was lost when they travelled across the English channel :O
Hey, it was you that started bringing irrelevant stuff about Anglo Saxons being "odd" into the thread

Anglo Saxon is odd. Its out of step with the rest of Europe. Plus mot of the time they are actually worse at doing things than the rest of Europe. So why be odd and bad ? You can start a new thread on this in Politics if you wish.

Slice I think we have a shinner in our midst

Sinn Fein are a mafia organisation incorporating terrorists under its umbrella. I dont support the low lives.

dts wrote:

Why do you always want to be different?
The UK postal service is far better than the Irish so why not adopt there system? The last thing you want is to start to try to use a language that most people here dont understand.
As most of the things you buy off the net are from the UK it would make total sense to follow there post code system. Bring in the royal mail and paint all the green vans red!

The UK post code system up the north is a diaster. Ask anyone who knows anything about post codes. Personally Im delighted we said goodbye to the UK. We just need to get an Post in order.

monument
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maskhadov
how is 500 Sráid Odása confusing ?
It's Odessa Street, how do I know? Google.

Otherwise, I was thinking "Sráid, is that strand... or?".

It’s a bit sad, it even saddens me a bit, I didn’t know. But the point is, how on earth can you say how could that be confusing?

I’m afraid to inform you English is my first language – and it was a hard enough of a job teach me and loads of others English.

Well at the end of the day, Irish is our first language and there are some people out there that do actually use it. It cant be that hard to pronouce it.

The real Irish name is closely linked since English people couldnt pronouce it. It shouldnt be too hard to guess, The English names are made up so why use them ?

MrPudding
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maskhadov
how is 500 Sráid Odása confusing ?
I don't even know how to pronounce it. Further, I have no interest in knowing how to pronounce it.

MrP

Some people out there cant spell their name, would that stop them from using it ?

What about the whole Dingle / An Daingean thing ? Can you pronouce that ? I could once I heard it and fully back Minister Éamon Ó Cuív.

Victor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maskhadov
500 Sráid Odása
What is "Odása"? Why only use Irish when the usual names are in English?

Most country roads have names already, they just don't have nameplates.

An awful lot dont and those who do arent the proper place names.

Why do they use Irish names on the Luas and Dublin Bus if there are English places names for them too ? Im a strong supporter of the Irish language where it doesnt take much effort. I dont think it takes a major effort to use it and would rather keep some of the identity of the island before we are completely americanised.

However if its going to be too expensive to incorporate Irish into street names then of course second thought will have to be given to the whole thing.

Slice · 09-01-2006 04:38PM

Well at the end of the day, Irish is our first language and there are some people out there that do actually use it. It cant be that hard to pronouce it.

I think you'll be hard pushed to find someone whose first language is Irish over English.

Basically, the Comreg report on post codes didn't really state what sort of post code we will end up using because there is going to be a study into it. The report just stated that the post code needed to be comprehensive and logical, especially from a geographical point of view in terms of postal deliveries, without imposing or influencing the current use of names/and variations on those names.

What anglo-saxons have anything to do with such a decisions I'm not really sure.

http://www.comreg.ie/publications/default.asp?ctype=5&nid=102032

dts · 09-01-2006 04:46PM

Irish is for the tourists.
English is spoken in most of the european countries and alot more practical. Also Ireland is still more tied into the UK despite the euro than the rest of Europe. Most post coming from outside of Ireland is from the UK. If the hole country followed on post code system then the north probably wouldnt have as many problems with it.
At the end of the day whats the big issue, postcodes are a good idea for the postal service, the sooner they are introduced outside of dublin the easier it will be for an post to get your letter to you in under two weeks.
Just got my xmas card today from my mums in Manchester. Sent Dec 07th, nice one An post!

MrPudding · 09-01-2006 04:53PM

Maskhadov wrote:

Well at the end of the day, Irish is our first language and there are some people out there that do actually use it. It cant be that hard to pronouce it.

Yeah, some people. Most don't.

Maskhadov wrote:

Some people out there cant spell their name, would that stop them from using it ?

Yeah, but you have to presume they can pronounce it.

Maskhadov wrote:

What about the whole Dingle / An Daingean thing ? Can you pronouce that ? I could once I heard it and fully back Minister Éamon Ó Cuív.

And that is why you truly are my hero. I have no idea how to pronounce Irish words. None at all what so ever.

I suppose there is an arguement for having Irish only signs in Irish only areas where most people are Irish speakers. At the same time very touristy areas in other countries have signs in other languages so why can't they?

With regards to the rest of the country, why? For the vast majority of people English is the first language.

MrP

Calina · 09-01-2006 05:02PM

A couple of points:

1) the language of the street names should, by and large, be reasonably irrelevant to the postcode system implemented. This is effectively the case in Germany and France and Belgium.

2) the country is officially bilingual, although constitutionally, Irish is apparently to the fore. However, from a practical point of view, I don't understand what's so bad about applying the locally used language to street names. This is how it works in Belgium, except Brussels is officially bilingual and street signs have, as far as I recall, both language versions which are handled by the post office.

As a point of interest, I live in Dublin in an estate with an Irish name. I have no end of hassle constantly having to spell it for every authority from the Revenue Commissioners to the local Chinese takeaway and delivery service. This does nothing to increase my love of the Irish language - and I speak as someone who debated heavily on the side of maintaining the obligatory nature of Irish at LC level when Enda Kenny suggested it be dropped.

3) most of Europe may well speak English. But you'll be hard pressed to find their street names in English if it's not the local first language. I don't particularly like the UK postcode system and if I had to choose one which I did, it'd be the French one. My experience is also that the French postal system is the best.

An Post recently got a package from Dublin Airport to Tralee in under 24 hours as in, posted in Dublin Airport at 2pm arrived in Tralee at 11am the following morning. They also regularly get packages to Paris in two days for me. I actually don't think postcodes or lack thereof are their primary problem and although they let me down on occasion, I don't think they are so bad.

Maskhadov · 09-01-2006 05:04PM

Lads, im not getting bogged down in a Gaeilge Vs English debate. I support Irish and think it should be used in postcodes/street names. Obvously you are of a different persuasion. Thats fine !!!!

One thing we can agreee on. An Post is the biggest joke of a postal service in Western Europe. I lost €500 worth of goods in a package a few years back, I belive someone opened my packege in the sorting office because it was so well secured.

I regularly have parcels opened/in bits when it comes through the letter box and several christmas cards arrived in the new year.

On top of all that, when I order anything off Amazon.co.uk it takes forever to get here compared to Northern Ireland.

Like Eddie hobbs says, most of the institutions in this country are ran by the unions. The unions run the post for their own means instead of running it for the customer. Postcodes should help end this sham.

Victor · 09-01-2006 05:05PM

dts wrote:

Just got my xmas card today from my mums in Manchester. Sent Dec 07th, nice one An post!

That was possibly Royal AMil who put a load of foreign mail into "intervention".

Calina · 09-01-2006 05:12PM

Maskhadov wrote:

Lads, im not getting bogged down in a Gaeilge Vs English debate. I support Irish and think it should be used in postcodes/street names. Obvously you are of a different persuasion. Thats fine !!!!

One thing we can agreee on. An Post is the biggest joke of a postal service in Western Europe. I lost €500 worth of goods in a package a few years back, I belive someone opened my packege in the sorting office because it was so well secured.

I regularly have parcels opened/in bits when it comes through the letter box and several christmas cards arrived in the new year.

On top of all that, when I order anything off Amazon.co.uk it takes forever to get here compared to Northern Ireland.

Like Eddie hobbs says, most of the institutions in this country are ran by the unions. The unions run the post for their own means instead of running it for the customer. Postcodes should help end this sham.

But I don't agree with you that An Post are the biggest joke. I actually find their service okay. And I order from both Amazon.co.uk and Amazon.fr and would have to say stuff from amazon.fr tends to get here faster. I've never had any damage from them in terms of stuff sent to me.

The Italian postal service is held to be one of the worst in Europe, and I have Greek friends who systematically post everything by registered post so that it takes less than a month to travel to its destination. 16million items "go missing" in the Royal Mail every year.

In any case, I have to say that you have provided no evidence that postcodes would improve anything if, in fact, unions are the root of the problem.

Alun · 09-01-2006 05:23PM

Calina wrote:

I don't particularly like the UK postcode system and if I had to choose one which I did, it'd be the French one.

What's to like or dislike about it? With the UK system, and also the Dutch one (which is the only other that I'm intimately familar with) you can pin down an address exactly with the postcode plus the house number. Very handy for quick location of addreses with car satnav systems, for example. A quick Google on the French system gives me the impression that it's a lot 'coarser' than these two, a bit like the German Postleitzahl or PLZ is that correct? And if so, why is that superior?

Maskhadov · 09-01-2006 05:26PM

Calina wrote:

But I don't agree with you that An Post are the biggest joke. I actually find their service okay. And I order from both Amazon.co.uk and Amazon.fr and would have to say stuff from amazon.fr tends to get here faster. I've never had any damage from them in terms of stuff sent to me.

The Italian postal service is held to be one of the worst in Europe, and I have Greek friends who systematically post everything by registered post so that it takes less than a month to travel to its destination. 16million items "go missing" in the Royal Mail every year.

In any case, I have to say that you have provided no evidence that postcodes would improve anything if, in fact, unions are the root of the problem.

Do you work for An post or something ? Its a crap expenive inefficent service.

Calina · 09-01-2006 05:34PM

Maskhadov wrote:

Do you work for An post or something ? Its a crap expenive inefficent service.

No, as it happens, I do not.

And frankly, "oh you must work for the company" is hardly constructive debate. It doesn't change the fact that you haven't given any evidence to suggest that implementing postcodes will undo the damage of union protected workers.

Calina · 09-01-2006 05:38PM

Alun wrote:

What's to like or dislike about it? With the UK system, and also the Dutch one (which is the only other that I'm intimately familar with) you can pin down an address exactly with the postcode plus the house number. Very handy for quick location of addreses with car satnav systems, for example. A quick Google on the French system gives me the impression that it's a lot 'coarser' than these two, a bit like the German Postleitzahl or PLZ is that correct? And if so, why is that superior?

1) I find the combination of letters and numbers difficult to remember, particularly as they don't always have immediately obvious connections to their local geography.

2) their exactness is only useful if you do have that sat nav system - I assume you mean house number + plus street name - if you reckon the street name is not necessary, I'd have to say I prefer map plus street name/house number than postcode and house number. Personally not a fan of sat nav systems anyway, but that's a personal preference.

Maskhadov · 09-01-2006 05:55PM

Calina wrote:

No, as it happens, I do not.

And frankly, "oh you must work for the company" is hardly constructive debate. It doesn't change the fact that you haven't given any evidence to suggest that implementing postcodes will undo the damage of union protected workers.

Well I dont rate An Post, I was surprised that someone actually did !:eek:

Postcodes will do a lot to eat away the Vested intrests of the unions simply by allowing other companies to deliver mail that is quick and efficent. An Post have a monolopy on mail delivery and it has dragged on for too long.

The dutch are already introducing competition onto the service (TNT I think is the new service) but we have to wait until 2009 I belive.

Alun · 09-01-2006 06:07PM

Calina wrote:

1) I find the combination of letters and numbers difficult to remember, particularly as they don't always have immediately obvious connections to their local geography.

Can't say I've ever found that a problem myself. There are the occasional strange instances where a small village just within the border of one county will have a postcode of the large town in the adjacent county. Not usually a problem, and the only people who object are usually onl ydoing so out of snobbery.

2) their exactness is only useful if you do have that sat nav system - I assume you mean house number + plus street name - if you reckon the street name is not necessary, I'd have to say I prefer map plus street name/house number than postcode and house number. Personally not a fan of sat nav systems anyway, but that's a personal preference.

Not necessarily. If I want to locate an address in the UK (or Holland) there are any number of websites (steetmap.co.uk, maporama.com, etc.) I can go to and type in the postcode + house number and get a map of the area I'm going to. And I did mean postcode plus house number ... the street name is superfluous in this case. As an example, my postcode in Holland was 5508HD, which was the code for my half of the street (the odd numbers). The other side of the street was 5508HE. Add my house number to that, i.e. 9, and that was all anyone needed to unambiguously identify my house.

Calina · 09-01-2006 07:06PM

Alun wrote:

Not necessarily. If I want to locate an address in the UK (or Holland) there are any number of websites (steetmap.co.uk, maporama.com, etc.) I can go to and type in the postcode + house number and get a map of the area I'm going to. And I did mean postcode plus house number ... the street name is superfluous in this case. As an example, my postcode in Holland was 5508HD, which was the code for my half of the street (the odd numbers). The other side of the street was 5508HE. Add my house number to that, i.e. 9, and that was all anyone needed to unambiguously identify my house.

In other words, you're suggesting that the function of the postcode is as a street identifier.

TBH, I have to say that what you're describing sounds totally unworkable as a navigation aid unless you have a sat nav or an internet connx or a suitable piece of software. But I might be wrong and I don't intend to fight over it.

Alun · 09-01-2006 07:36PM

Calina wrote:

In other words, you're suggesting that the function of the postcode is as a street identifier.

TBH, I have to say that what you're describing sounds totally unworkable as a navigation aid unless you have a sat nav or an internet connx or a suitable piece of software. But I might be wrong and I don't intend to fight over it.

I'm not picking a fight

But yes, the function of a postcode, within the context of sorting and delivering mail, is that of unambiguously identifying a street, or better still, an individual house. What on earth else would it be?? That's what they're designed to do.

And as I said, they're very handy when trying to locate addresses using the multitude of mapping services on the internet (hardly a rarity or luxury these days!) or on satnav systems (ditto, except perhaps in Ireland). If you don't have a satnav system, you can just use one of the (free) mapping services on the internet and print a map off to take with you. That's not to say that it's impossible to do it without using them, it's just a whole lot quicker, easier and less error prone.

They're also very handy for people engaged in demographic research, those who have the unenviable job of disambiguating address databases, and (unfortunately) mass mailing companies. Then there's the emergency services that use them to quickly locate callers, and opening up delivery services to companies who might not possess the degree of local knowledge that the local An Post postie might have.

MrPudding · 09-01-2006 09:14PM

Calina wrote:

In other words, you're suggesting that the function of the postcode is as a street identifier.

The clue is in the name. "Post" code. A code designed to make delivering "post" easier.

MrP

MrPudding · 10-01-2006 09:27AM

Maskhadov wrote:

Well I dont rate An Post, I was surprised that someone actually did !:eek:

Agreed. I have had a couple of interesting experiences. Last year my Mother in the North sent a Christmas card to my GF’s parents in France, one to my sister in London and one to me here in Dublin. They arrived in London the next day, France (in a small village in the arse end of nowhere) in three days and to me in Dublin in nine days! Great service.

The new Harry Potter book last June / July. I bought 2 copies of Amazon. One for my sister in London and one for myself. Both sent to arrive on release day. My sister’s arrived on release day and mine 15 days after release.

This year I bought a book of musicroom.co.uk for my daughter. It was dispatched from Belgium on the 13th of December and arrived January 4th.

You might be able to apportion some blame to the other companies involved but I think in these cases the problem seems to be with An Post.

MrP

Slice · 10-01-2006 10:18AM

With international postal deliveries you have to remember that there are two postal services involved so it's not necessarily the fault of An Post that a letter should be delayed. Additionally, I don't get your point Maskhadov of An Post being one of the worse in Europe, there's nothing to say that it is. An Post isn't far behind Royal Mail and if you were to compare the Irish postal service to say the American service we're getting a far better deal from what most American friends have told me.

Just last month, shortly before Christmas it was reported that Royal Mail had "found" a load of undelivered mail due for Ireland that had been delayed by about two weeks. It was found so shortly before Christmas that the newspaper report said it wasn't guarenteed the letters/parcels would be delivered on time for Christmas.

Because something from Amazon doesn't arrive until several days later is not necessarily a reflection on An Post. Try ordering from an Irish site with goods dispatched from within Ireland and you'll find it'll get delivered on time.

MrPudding · 10-01-2006 11:15AM

Slice wrote:

With international postal deliveries you have to remember that there are two postal services involved so it's not necessarily the fault of An Post that a letter should be delayed.

This is very true. But in the example of the cards my mother sent to Dublin, London and France it would be hard to blame Royal Mail or La Poste for the card to Dublin taking nine days when the one to London was there next day the one to France in three.

Slice wrote:

Because something from Amazon doesn't arrive until several days later is not necessarily a reflection on An Post.

Not several days. 15 days later in the case of the Harry Potter book. That is 2 weeks not several days.

Slice wrote:

Try ordering from an Irish site with goods dispatched from within Ireland and you'll find it'll get delivered on time.

I have had letters posted to me in Dublin that have taken several days to arrive.

If I post something to my mother in the north it will typically take 3 to 5 days to arrive if I put in in a letter box or drop it into the post office. Interestingly, if I drop it into the post bad in my company before 1300Hrs it will be there the next day.

MrP

dts · 10-01-2006 11:36AM

Looking at the examples given here it has to be An Post that is taking its time.
Anything I have ordered from out side of Ireland takes around about two weeks to arrive. I am sure its done on purpose becaus it has come from another country. Its all part of a bigger scam that is rip off Ireland.

Slice · 10-01-2006 11:56AM

So your book arrived late, but I think you're exagerrating when you say fifteen days. Does the 15 days include weekend days? Also, do you realise that if you're ordering from Amazon.co.uk they would have sent it to be delivered on release date assuming that they were delivering to an address within the UK, this is even though their .ie site just redirects you to the .co.uk site it still doesn't seem to make distinctions between Irish and British, the fact that they ask for a postcode from Irish customers is a case in point. For example, I was going to join their DVD rental service and their site made all these promises about deliveries and it's only when you go to join does it have a small note to say it's only available in the UK, what's more I was still able to proceed with registering for the service using an Irish address regardless.

dts · 10-01-2006 11:58AM

What’s wrong with it including weekends? An Post should do a Saturday service!

Calina · 10-01-2006 12:15PM

dts wrote:

Looking at the examples given here it has to be An Post that is taking its time.
Anything I have ordered from out side of Ireland takes around about two weeks to arrive. I am sure its done on purpose becaus it has come from another country. Its all part of a bigger scam that is rip off Ireland.

Really? That's amazing. With the absolute exception of a CD that amazon highlighted as taking 4-6 weeks to deliver, everything I order from them gets delivered in four days. I also deal with a specialist needlework shop in the UK and so far, everything has taken just two days to get delivered. I order stuff from France it takes between three and five days. I send stuff to France it takes two to three days. Stuff sent from play.com has on average taken four days.

Most stuff I send from Dublin down the country is delivered in 24 hours.

I can live with that.

I am sure its done on purpose becaus it has come from another country. Its all part of a bigger scam that is rip off Ireland.

I'm missing the logic here.

MrPudding · 10-01-2006 12:27PM

Slice wrote:

So your book arrived late, but I think you're exagerrating when you say fifteen days.

You think I’m exaggerating? Oh well pardon me. I can assure you I am not. My copy arrived 15 days after my sisters.

Slice wrote:

Does the 15 days include weekend days?

Of course it does, why wouldn’t it? Does the world stop at the weekend? Do lorries and boats stop? Is there no one working in An Post at the weekend?

Slice wrote:

Also, do you realise that if you're ordering from Amazon.co.uk they would have sent it to be delivered on release date assuming that they were delivering to an address within the UK……

This is exactly my point. I did not expect my copy to arrive on the day of release. This was not my first internet purchase. I was simply using it as a point of comparison. Both copies were sent at the same time but mine took two week longer to arrive.

Slice wrote:

For example, I was going to join their DVD rental service and their site made all these promises about deliveries and it's only when you go to join does it have a small note to say it's only available in the UK, what's more I was still able to proceed with registering for the service using an Irish address regardless.

Not really relevant to this discussion. But in fairness you are on amazon.co.uk. and we are not part of the UK. If they offered the same service on the US or German site would you expect it to be any different?

MrP

Post/Zip codes and Ireland

Comments