Dublin gardai abusing powers.

Lauragoesmad · 14-11-2005 03:27AM #1

Is it just me or do some of the gardai in dublin really need to go on communications courses or what? I have seen them abuse they're powers on numerous ocasions and just be blatently rude on many others. I really think that if the gardai want to have the respect and trust of the public, the majority of them need to use a nicer tone and learn how to say please and thank you. Just wondering what people thought.

the_syco · 14-11-2005 03:31AM

The ones I ever came acroos were informative. I don't care if they're not friendly, and tbh, they shouldn't be. If they come across another drunk scumbag, should they try to be his friend, or try to load him into the van? I prefer option B, tbh.

jetsonx · 14-11-2005 03:51AM

For a modern society their attitude towards the public in Dublin seems to be of crass ignorance, rudeness and a constant "i've got the power to arrest you" attitude.

Not the way forward for any sector dealing with the public.

[Jackass] · 14-11-2005 04:47AM

AFAIK they're trained to be like that, and it's common practice in any country.
Part of their job, for there own safety, and to be in authority of any potentially dangerous situation is to intimidate you. It's why most police forces dress in black, carry weapons and address you in a blunt tone.

jetsonx · 14-11-2005 04:59AM

DubGuy wrote:

they're trained to be like that

to be crass ignorant?

[Jackass] · 14-11-2005 05:03AM

yes

jesus_thats_gre · 14-11-2005 05:03AM

DubGuy wrote:

AFAIK they're trained to be like that, and it's common practice in any country.
Part of their job, for there own safety, and to be in authority of any potentially dangerous situation is to intimidate you. It's why most police forces dress in black, carry weapons and address you in a blunt tone.

Also why the height rule was in place...

Its all well and good complaining but you are not putting yourself in the same situation. They deal with 20 incidents of the same crap every day and night they work.. You become de-sensitised in situations like that.

MorningStar · 14-11-2005 11:01AM

DubGuy wrote:

AFAIK they're trained to be like that, and it's common practice in any country.
Part of their job, for there own safety, and to be in authority of any potentially dangerous situation is to intimidate you. It's why most police forces dress in black, carry weapons and address you in a blunt tone.

Well they aren't trained very well for consistancy. I have met good and bad and they judge you a lot by what you are wearing or look like. If you are asking for directions or asking for help they should be polite an friendly. They are getting worse here and are apathetic to their duties now. I don't particularly blame them as they are so under resoused but they better realise that is a reason not an excuse and they are accountable for their actions

Rb · 14-11-2005 11:07AM

I've never came across a garda abusing their powers, being rude etc.
Any guard I've met has been friendly (but I'm not a rough looking type anyway) and helpful(in cases where I needed help).

dSTAR · 14-11-2005 12:35PM

I think the gardai in Ireland are quite mild compared to their American and British counterparts whom I have witnessed in action on certain ocassions.

One police officer in California told a protestor to 'STFU or he would put him all over the sidewalk'!

Although the police in Australia are well trained in PR they have been known to shoot the odd offender without giving said person a chance to give themselves up.

Why should the Gardai be polite? They have to deal with the worst scumbags that crawl the face of the earth.

fozzle · 14-11-2005 12:46PM

Lauragoesmad wrote:

Is it just me or do some of the gardai in dublin really need to go on communications courses or what? I have seen them abuse they're powers on numerous ocasions

Care to specify? Or have you just seen a Guard tell off some little punk that for all you know has been giving them and the public sh1t for years?

Police are not on the street to be your buddy, they're there to protect the peace. I've stopped them and asked for directions in Dublin more than once and found them to be very helpful, even though their not being paid to direct lost culchies around their city.

Dublin has some of the worst beats in the country, Store Street being one of the very worst, they've a lot of stuff to cope with, without giving big happy smiles to random passers-by. It's not a job I envy them, and I certainly wouldn't do it, would you?

Sleepy · 14-11-2005 01:01PM

I've never come across a Garda who was impolite if I asked for directions. Brisk and to the point maybe but like Fozzle says, it ain't their job to provide directions.

Given a choice which would you prefer: a police force to be feared, or respected? It'd be nice for them to be respected but you have to remember that the people they have to deal with on a daily basis have no respect for anyone or anything. So, the Garda are left with the only option available to them: try and make the scumbags fear them.

Given the choice between a Garda force that are as impotent as ours are at dealing with scumbags and a Garda force that could legally baton anyone causing them a problem without questions being asked, I'd take the latter. A few protestors skulls being cracked is a small price to pay for peaceful streets.

jcoote · 14-11-2005 01:05PM

i have always found them smart and cocky but its their job and can't be seen as push overs i suppose...but if i have ever needed directions or anything sighned or anything they have been straight to the point and have helped me as requested

MorningStar · 14-11-2005 03:16PM

jcoote wrote:

i have always found them smart and cocky but its their job and can't be seen as push overs i suppose...but if i have ever needed directions or anything sighned or anything they have been straight to the point and have helped me as requested

Well try not looking like your average joe and then you get to see what they are like. Over the years I have changed my general style but for a a long time I had long hair and a beard. I can tell you that cops can be very rude in this country and predjudicial. I was stopped and searched many times for no other reason than my apperance.
I noticed that when I had shorter hair and no beard I was treated very differently by them same cops in many cases.
There are an awfull lot who dislike being in Dublin and dislike people from Dublin. I have seen cops attack people without good reason and threaten people. The fact cops have been proved to be guilty of planting evidence, assulting people and many cops were involved in not giving evidence proves there is at least a small problem.
I have friends who are cops and I know they abuse there powers. There is a an unwritten code that if you hit a femal cop you are putting your life on the line. Ask any cop you know and they will explain how it is fair but don't realise that this same form of beating a prisoner could be used for "other" reasons.

MrJoeSoap · 14-11-2005 05:43PM

MorningStar wrote:

There is a an unwritten code that if you hit a femal cop you are putting your life on the line.

And rightly so might I add.

I personally don't find that Dublin Gardai abuse their power. I've never had a bad experience with a Garda before, they always come across as decent, friendly people. I've spent quite a bit of time with them and know that they (well the ones I've met) are quite pleasant and upbeat, which is surprising considering the rubbish that they have to put up with in this country, and especially in Dublin.

jetsonx · 14-11-2005 06:45PM

they don't abuse their power...yeah right...I know from a very reliable source
that they were refused free food from a certain well known fast-food joint in the Dublin city centre - they then threatened the manager that if they don't get their free burgers....there might be a "delay" in arriving on the scene next time they are needed. Legally that can be classified as blackmail. This sort of carry-on is unacceptable.

Ask any barstaff down the country where they drink "after hours" and have their own lock-in. They intimidate the owners and staff and "they" decide what time the bar will shut at. Again - blatent abuse of power.

Now I know the force are the paragon of ethical standards compared to policing standards in places like South America but this is 21st century Europe and us tax payers pay their wages.

J.R.HARTLEY · 15-11-2005 01:48AM

Jetson and laura the only problem i'd have with what you say is that it's in your experience, in other words it's only gardai you have come across, so what % of the force is that,i wouldn't doubt there are bad gardai and that you have seen them, there are bad elements in all social groups and i'm sure the power of the gardai can be appealling to that mindset. but seriously neither of you even bothered to suggest it wasn't every garda.

i can think of twenty gardai i know offhand who i've never seen act as described here. in fact in response to jetsons last post i used to work in a Gaa club that was often raided and shut down for running over time by the gardai, despite the fact that it was a garda favourite, and any off duty gardai in the lounge scarpered to the toilet afraid of any disciplinary action that might befall them if caught in the lounge, the on duty gardai never asked us to stay open.
also your paragraph of "ask any barstaff down the country..." is at best an exageration and at worst a terrible example of hearsay conjecture and gossip. please, facts only.
also "i know from a very reliable source..." wasn't that uttered around the sunday independant offices a few saturdays ago?

MorningStar · 15-11-2005 10:42AM

MrJoeSoap wrote:

And rightly so might I add.

Not really, this basically means if they think you deserve a beating you will get it. SO if they haven't been able to prove something in court, take a dislike to you, think you are responsible for something and any other reason they can think of they can beat you up and get away witgh it. It appears thay have beaten people to death in custody including a child.
So for what ever you think about the rightness of beating sombody for hitting a female cop it proves that if they can cover that up and justify it they can do it for anything. Corruption is wrong no matter what because it makes it possible to do it for the wrong reasons just as much for percieved "good" reasons.
I have been threaten by cops both legally and illegally and I have seen them beat people and not arrest them. The problem areas are where they act the most like this becasue they know they can get away with it. THey actually make the areas worse as locals can't trust them.

MrJoeSoap · 15-11-2005 11:11AM

MorningStar wrote:

Not really, this basically means if they think you deserve a beating you will get it. SO if they haven't been able to prove something in court, take a dislike to you, think you are responsible for something and any other reason they can think of they can beat you up and get away witgh it.

If you attack a member of the police force (be it female or male) you deserve a beating, thats all I said. Do you not agree?

[edit] - Perhaps not to within inches of your life but just enough to let them know who's boss and not to try something that idiotic again.

MorningStar · 15-11-2005 12:26PM

MrJoeSoap wrote:

If you attack a member of the police force (be it female or male) you deserve a beating, thats all I said. Do you not agree?

[edit] - Perhaps not to within inches of your life but just enough to let them know who's boss and not to try something that idiotic again.

THe point remains if they can choose to beat you up and not have anything happen to them they willl do it for anything they want. I don't think the cops have the right to be judge aswell no matter what so no Idon't agree. The reason is simple they have,are and will abuse this. They have killed people and they singled out people for abuse unjustly because they can.
I have seen cops beat people up for no other reason than desire. I have been told by cops how they like to beat up junkies and the homeless at night for a laugh!
So simply put I don't think the cops should beat people up for any reason. They can defend themselves all they like but excessive force is what they are doing and covering up. If they can cover up this and there is a a policy of silence allowed they can cover anything and have.

MrJoeSoap · 15-11-2005 12:28PM

MorningStar wrote:

I have been told by cops how they like to beat up junkies and the homeless at night for a laugh!

Thats just plain ridiculous.

MorningStar · 15-11-2005 12:54PM

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Thats just plain ridiculous.

I think it is ridiculous they do this too!

MrJoeSoap · 15-11-2005 01:05PM

MorningStar wrote:

I think it is ridiculous they do this too!

Why did a Garda tell you this? Did you report them?

MorningStar · 15-11-2005 01:48PM

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Why did a Garda tell you this? Did you report them?

Because I know them since childhood. I don't really care about junkies do you? Who is going to believe me and it could be bravado but I think it is at least partially true.
I grew up in Dublin and saw cops beat teenagers up and steal their drink practially weekly. It is part of what Dublin cops do and when I say Dublin I men the ones working here who are very rarely used to urban environments.

They certainly abuse their power in this city but if you aren't in their scope of bad people or easy targets you probably never notice.

MrJoeSoap · 15-11-2005 04:25PM

MorningStar wrote:

I don't really care about junkies do you?

I wouldn't really say I "care" about them, I only really "care" about people I know and who are close to me, but for a Garda to beat a junkie purely for the fact that they are an easy target is disgraceful. I'm glad to say I have never seen such an incident, in fact to the contrary, I have only ever experienced Gardai being accomodating to people in vulnerable situations (unless that person has given them reason to do otherwise).

I have plenty of experience with the Gardai, spent lots of my childhood in the original Blanchardstown Garda Station (;) , my dad is a Garda, I wasn't a juvenile delinquent!) and have only ever had good personal experiences with them. Obviously people will have differing experiences but I can only go on what I know, and I know two very nice and respectable people in Templemore at the moment (a good friend and a first cousin), who I know for certain would not even consider attacking vulernable people without adequate reason (i.e. - being under threat or being attacked first).

MorningStar · 16-11-2005 10:07AM

The fact your dad was a cop wouldn't affect how you see cops?
I wasn't a deliquent but I knew quite a few. Cops accused them of things they didn't do and harrased them. Rightly so some would say.
Cops beat people up unnessarily it is a fact as proved by investigations. Not all do it but there is definitely a wall of silence about it. Cops have covered for other cops or been too afraid to say anything.
I have seen cops beat people up and then drive away and I also saw cops steal. I have been in a friends house and he handed me beers stolen from a teenager the week before. That is a corrupt system.
ASk your dad what happens to the beer taken awy from teenagers or does he think people have been roughly handled when there was no longer a need.

LegacyUser · 16-11-2005 10:14AM

MorningStar wrote:

I grew up in Dublin and saw cops beat teenagers up and steal their drink practially weekly.

If you're referring to minors "knacker-drinking" in the city, then

(a) I would fully condone the alcohol being confiscated from them without return.

and

(b) there are more fundamental social problems with these people and their family dynamic then the Gardai taking alcohol off them because they're underage and drinking in public.

MorningStar · 16-11-2005 10:22AM

bruachain wrote:

If you're referring to minors "knacker-drinking" in the city, then

(a) I would fully condone the alcohol being confiscated from them without return.

and

(b) there are more fundamental social problems with these people and their family dynamic then the Gardai taking alcohol off them because they're underage and drinking in public.

Say if they are teenagers in a wealthy suburb and they do it intentially to get free booze. What if they beat up the teenagers in the city as well as take the drink. Say if they teenager fights back and they beat him to detah?

LegacyUser · 16-11-2005 10:26AM

MorningStar wrote:

Say if they are teenagers in a wealthy suburb and they do it intentially to get free booze. What if they beat up the teenagers in the city as well as take the drink. Say if they teenager fights back and they beat him to detah?

Whats you point? I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Have you some sort of a grudge against the law/Gardai?

MorningStar · 16-11-2005 10:50AM

bruachain wrote:

Whats you point? I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Have you some sort of a grudge against the law/Gardai?

THe title is about how they are corrupt and abusive. I think they are corrupt and abusive. I am explaining why and what Ithey do

LegacyUser · 16-11-2005 10:57AM

MorningStar wrote:

Say if they are teenagers in a wealthy suburb and they do it intentially to get free booze.

If a teenager, i.e. someone under the legal age, is in possession of a controlled substance, in this case alcohol, then there is no question but that it should be confiscated without remit and compensation.

End of story.

Dublin gardai abusing powers.

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