How far is too far for Dublin commute

skywalker_208 · 25-10-2005 03:14PM

Yes that is exactly what i am saying.. People have a choice and people do choose to live down outside Dublin and are fully aware of the time it will take to commute to work...

Piling everyone into Dublin to live into apartment blocks is not going to solve the issues though....

jank · 25-10-2005 03:30PM

As i said moving jobs and basing companies around the country is one way to try and reverse the trend.

skywalker_208 · 25-10-2005 03:51PM

yes i agree with you there..

one recent example if PFPC International who are opening soon in Navan and creating a few hundred jobs...

A Dub in Glasgo · 25-10-2005 05:53PM

I was offered a job paying €60k based in Dublin 2 weeks ago. I knocked it back because I would have to take a huge cut in my standard of living compared to what I have in Glasgow. I would not consider a long commute and I cannot afford a family home in a reasonable area with a reasonable commute.

HelterSkelter · 25-10-2005 06:49PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I was offered a job paying €60k based in Dublin 2 weeks ago. I knocked it back because I would have to take a huge cut in my standard of living compared to what I have in Glasgow. I would not consider a long commute and I cannot afford a family home in a reasonable area with a reasonable commute.

What was the job, I'll take it!!

civdef · 25-10-2005 07:08PM

Ill think you will find that alot if not most people do it because they have to not because they want to... very few jobs in the country for very many professions compared to Dublin.....

Bingo...

Kobayashi · 25-10-2005 11:07PM

.......and I thought the people spending up to an hour and a half commuting FROM Dublin to my work were crazy. Same scenario where I came from near Edinburgh. Identical problem. No investment in railways and everyone wanting to drive their OWN car to Edinburgh. One person in majority of cars. Only answer is persuading folk out of their cars and it ain't gonna happen without massive investment in trains, bus lanes (and buses). And the chances of that? I've been here 7 months, you tell me (but i think I know the answer)!

skywalker_208 · 26-10-2005 08:08AM

Hit the nail on the head there Kobayashi. Using Navan as an example - 2 5pm buses leave Dublin for Navan during the week.. both have people standing on them most evenings due to overcrowding.... similar situations on the mornings on the way up...

why would people choose this over driving their own car.....

MorningStar · 26-10-2005 08:12AM

skywalker_208 wrote:

Yes that is exactly what i am saying.. People have a choice and people do choose to live down outside Dublin and are fully aware of the time it will take to commute to work...

Piling everyone into Dublin to live into apartment blocks is not going to solve the issues though....

Actually you said a few times people didn't have a choice. People are not full aware of the cost of living far out from the city or established facilities. Travel times to and from Dublin will get worse as time goes on and many people don't think about it. THe additional wear and tear of cars is often an unfactored cost. No local shops becomes an issue when you need milk for your baby. Lack of schools isn't considered when you don't have kids but 2 years later it is suddenly an issue.

Every other major European city has a larger portion of people living in various high density property. People have to get used to it. The cost of urban sprawl is not isolated to those living there.

Dublin will keep on growing even if other busineses are moved around the country. Higher density is the quickest easy solution. It makes more sense to slow the construction industry industry now rather than cater for peoples' desires at the cost of the next generation.

Peole don't need to move out of Dublin and commute 3-5 hours a day. They choose to and are being catered for. They then complain about their commute and lack of facilities. I paid a premium for my home because of these reason why are they expecting getting the same for less money? I don't think the greed should be allowed

daymobrew · 26-10-2005 08:14AM

skywalker_208 wrote:

Hit the nail on the head there Kobayashi. Using Navan as an example - 2 5pm buses leave Dublin for Navan during the week.. both have people standing on them most evenings due to overcrowding.... similar situations on the mornings on the way up...

why would people choose this over driving their own car.....

I get the train to city centre from Coolmine (Maynooth line). The 7:54am inbound service is JAMMED - it's actually like those photos from India - REALLY!
I take it because it's quicker than driving and, despite the gross overcrowding, less stressful. I also get a chance to read.
Thankfully the return journey is a lot less crowded, though still no seat for me.

With the new timetable in December Irish Rail will be putting an extra train on in the morning so hopefully it will help things.

Genghis · 26-10-2005 03:13PM

Like Laoisfan, I too commute from Portlaoise (although I live less than 5 mins from the station).

My commute is as follows:

6:45 Train leaves Portlaoise
7:55 Train arrives Heuston
8:00 Begin cycle to work (Clonskeagh, about 4 miles)
8:25 In Office

Going home:

6:25 Leave Office
6:50 Arrive Heuston
7:00 Depart Heuston
7:50 Arrive Portlaoise

No question, it is a long day, and it does involve 3h-4h travelling a day. But, I use my commute to do things I enjoy:

- Sleep on the way up ... one hours snooze is always welcome in the morning!
- Read / Crossword / Work on the way home
- 40mins cycle a day

I think my commute above is preferable to some other commutes - I once lived in Tallaght and worked in Dun Laoghaire - this was 7/8 years ago, pre Dundrum, etc - that journey was 1h45. Other people spend over an hour just on the M50, or sitting on a bus. On the days I don't cycle, i can take over 1.5hrs to take two buses from Heuston to work.

The point is that travel within Dublin is the worst part of the commute. This effects both commuters from 35 / 50 miles away as it does people from 3.5 / 5 miles away.

As a final point, my preference for a future job would either be - in Laois, or near Laois, or nearer Heuston Station.

Calina · 26-10-2005 08:02PM

MorningStar wrote:

Every other major European city has a larger portion of people living in various high density property. People have to get used to it. The cost of urban sprawl is not isolated to those living there.

Dublin will keep on growing even if other busineses are moved around the country. Higher density is the quickest easy solution. It makes more sense to slow the construction industry industry now rather than cater for peoples' desires at the cost of the next generation.

Peole don't need to move out of Dublin and commute 3-5 hours a day. They choose to and are being catered for. They then complain about their commute and lack of facilities. I paid a premium for my home because of these reason why are they expecting getting the same for less money? I don't think the greed should be allowed

Every other major European city has decent public transport. And personally speaking, the high-density accommodation in Brussels, Frankfurt, Munich and Paris to name but four European cities, including 2 of similar population to Dublin is of significantly better quality than the so called luxury apartments going up in Dublin.

I really don't think you are qualified to tell other people what is best for them without looking at their circumstances. People don't choose long commutes - it happens to be a lesser of several evils, ultimately. I'd look at where people are coming from and sort out the public transport to particular hotspots - properly. It could be a short cut to improving a lot of things. Realistically, you can't expect two thirds of the populations of Navan, Dundalk, Drogheda, Newry, Kildare, Athy, Enniscorthy, Portlaois to move into Dublin - there aren't enough accommodation units for them all at the moment, and you'd drive the already fruitcake of a property market crazy.

The continued growth of Dublin - either high density or low density - is not really sustainable either for Dublin or for the country as a whole. I think the next generation would be better served by moving significant numbers of people out of Dublin. But it's much easier to say we'll just squash more in, isn't it? While we're moving people out to other cities, we could perhaps plan the accommodation and transport a bit more intelligently that Dublin was done. I think the next generations would thank us more for that.

Zaph0d · 26-10-2005 08:56PM

Calina wrote:

I think the next generation would be better served by moving significant numbers of people out of Dublin.

I assume you are not suggesting moving people' by force. Do you think people will leave of their own accord? Do you know of a city where this has happened?

But it's much easier to say we'll just squash more in, isn't it?

Do you think Dublin is squashed? Look at the population densities of the cities you've mentioned above. Some are up to ten times denser than Dublin.

While we're moving people out to other cities, we could perhaps plan the accommodation and transport a bit more intelligently that Dublin was done. I think the next generations would thank us more for that.

we were very poor compared to other european cities for decades but we could have planned better. Congestion isn't much of a problem when your economy is stagnant or in recession.

Metrobest · 26-10-2005 10:26PM

MorningStar wrote:

Dublin will keep on growing even if other busineses are moved around the country. Higher density is the quickest easy solution. It makes more sense to slow the construction industry industry now rather than cater for peoples' desires at the cost of the next generation.

Peole don't need to move out of Dublin and commute 3-5 hours a day. They choose to and are being catered for. They then complain about their commute and lack of facilities. I paid a premium for my home because of these reason why are they expecting getting the same for less money? I don't think the greed should be allowed

I agree with this. There is an element of lifestyle choice about buying a house in one of these commuter towns in the counties bordering Dublin. Personally speaking, I find the idea of sitting in a car for up to four hours each day abhorent; working all day and then returning to a badly-designed semi-detached house in a soulless housing estate ten minute's drive from the nearest town, no shops or ammenties of any kind within walking distance, and no more than postage stamp-sized back garden for the children to play in. The myth that there is any quality of life in moving to such an environment is something that needs to be seriously challenged. An element of government intervention by way of planning regulations is needed to tilt population increases into the metropolitan areas. Most of South Dublin city is actually in population decline while places like Navan and Arklow grow in an unsustainable fashion. Why isn't more being done to stop this?

Transport is key, along with well-designed high-density development along urban corridors, complete with ammenties such as shops, schools, parkland, and social and recreational facilties.

A quality transport route, such as the Swords-Stephen's Green metro, could provide a catylyst an adequate supply of afforable housing within the urban setting of Dublin and would do much to end the trend towards commuter towns in ouylying counties.

Victor · 26-10-2005 10:52PM

Zaph0d wrote:

I assume you are not suggesting moving people' by force. Do you think people will leave of their own accord? Do you know of a city where this has happened?

Potentially you create pull factors, not push factors.

Decentralisation (at an appropriate scale) would be a pull factor. It is currently a push factor.

ubu · 26-10-2005 11:16PM

To the people suggesting 45mins is too long a commute, i live in Santry which is about 5 miles from St.Stephens Green and to get into town for 9:00 am i have to get the bus at 07:50, thats just over an hour, i have a friend who lives in Newbridge which is prob over 30 miles from city centre and he gets the train at pretty much the same time as i get the bus.

I dont see the difference in commmuting from the 2 places if it takes the same amount of time to get into the city centre in the morning.

A Dub in Glasgo · 26-10-2005 11:48PM

Even in the not so booming 1980's, the bus (13) from Ballymun (where I grew up) to Leeson Street (where I worked) took well over an hour in the mornings and evenings. The congestion and long time commute was always there as there is a dire lack of train service in the city (away from the coast).

MorningStar · 27-10-2005 08:29AM

Calina wrote:

Every other major European city has decent public transport. And personally speaking, the high-density accommodation in Brussels, Frankfurt, Munich and Paris to name but four European cities, including 2 of similar population to Dublin is of significantly better quality than the so called luxury apartments going up in Dublin.

You have got to be kidding. Paris has a mass of run down apartments that people live in. Most of Dublin's high density property is new, it might not be big but the minimum standards are better than something built 100 odd years old. Brussels, Barcelona, Madrid etc... I don't know about the other cities you mentioned but germany did get to redesign its cities.

Calina wrote:

I really don't think you are qualified to tell other people what is best for them without looking at their circumstances. People don't choose long commutes - it happens to be a lesser of several evils, ultimately. I'd look at where people are coming from and sort out the public transport to particular hotspots - properly.

I can say what is bad for the country and city. As other people all accross Europe can live in this manner means it is a viable option. I don't think people should be catered at to keep the building industry going. THe cost of this will be enormous. Taking the lesser of two evils is a choice and many people do it over desire and want rather than what is best. THey don't say it was the best of two bad options they say it is choice. Proper planing would prevent this building and choice.

Calina wrote:

The continued growth of Dublin - either high density or low density - is not really sustainable either for Dublin or for the country as a whole. I think the next generation would be better served by moving significant numbers of people out of Dublin. But it's much easier to say we'll just squash more in, isn't it? While we're moving people out to other cities, we could perhaps plan the accommodation and transport a bit more intelligently that Dublin was done. I think the next generations would thank us more for that.

Is is easily substainable due to our low density. There are a lot of big houses in Dublin that are getting devloped. Thereare also smaller houses with less use such as 5 and 6 bed houses that people don't really have the families for. THese houses will be split up like what happened all accross the UK. THere is no element of squashing in as there is plenty of room. Urban sprawl makes transport un economic to run. The planing you are talking about means stop building semi-ds around the City for commuting. THe next generation will be living in suburbs that will have little in the way of services and adults won't be home till after work. They will be out of controll and we will probably have another baby boom.

positron · 27-10-2005 09:07AM

I commute from Drogheda to City Centre - takes about an hour and a bit.

6:45 - 10 mins walk to station (or 3 mins drive, if its very wet/windy)
7:00 - train leaves for Connolly, I am in IT, and bring my laptop with me - I can work, read, watch movies or sleep.
7:55 (usually 8 by the time I get out of Connolly) - 10 mins Luas or 15 mins walk (again, if its wet/windy etc).

Thats about an hour and 30 mins from door to door. ( :eek: ), but half of that is work anyway.

Some services are quicker in the evening - Connolly-Drogheda in 30 mins to 45 mins.

At the moment, Drogheda is a good place to live (commutewise) IMHO, but sooner or later it would be what Balbriggan is now, when trains start filling up from Dundalk.

MorningStar · 27-10-2005 12:30PM

positron wrote:

I commute from Drogheda to City Centre - takes about an hour and a bit. etc...

Now this is where some people think what they are doing works fine but don't see where the future problems are or the effects it is having on others.
First off not everybody works a job where they can do work on transport.
Transport closer to Dublin is begining to get difficult as people are getting on trains earlier. I have friends that now drive into the city as they can't get on the train. THis increases congestion in th ecity so down grading my quality of life. AS people move further out than Drogheda and start using the train you may find the same happening to you as you say yourself. THe other problem is as commutes increase further out there is a big possibility your house prices may drop a lot quicker if you live further out than an easy commute. If any price drop happens it will hit the commuter places first and hardest. The increases are also less so buying further out may actually trap people out there as I have seen

daymobrew · 27-10-2005 03:32PM

ubu wrote:

To the people suggesting 45mins is too long a commute, i live in Santry which is about 5 miles from St.Stephens Green and to get into town for 9:00 am i have to get the bus at 07:50, thats just over an hour, i have a friend who lives in Newbridge which is prob over 30 miles from city centre and he gets the train at pretty much the same time as i get the bus.

I dont see the difference in commmuting from the 2 places if it takes the same amount of time to get into the city centre in the morning.

Could you cycle?

I put "Santry" and "St Stephens Green" into the DTO Journey Planner. I selected "Santry Avenue" from the starting point choices.
It says that it is 8.2km. Claims it would take 99mins walking. You could easily cycle this in 30 mins, without breaking much of a sweat. You could cycle hard on the way home to get some exercise benefits out of the commute.

I realise that cycling may not be suitable for you e.g. nowhere to park bike or store helmet/lights.

Zaph0d · 27-10-2005 04:17PM

ubu wrote:

To the people suggesting 45mins is too long a commute, i live in Santry which is about 5 miles from St.Stephens Green and to get into town for 9:00 am i have to get the bus at 07:50, thats just over an hour, i have a friend who lives in Newbridge which is prob over 30 miles from city centre and he gets the train at pretty much the same time as i get the bus.

I dont see the difference in commmuting from the 2 places if it takes the same amount of time to get into the city centre in the morning.

This is the flaw with the DRP and building stubby motorways to connect Dublin's neighbouring counties with the M50. It promotes dormitory town living at the expense of city dwellers. The metro might help you, depending on the route chosen.

seamus · 27-10-2005 04:37PM

ubu wrote:

To the people suggesting 45mins is too long a commute, i live in Santry which is about 5 miles from St.Stephens Green and to get into town for 9:00 am i have to get the bus at 07:50, thats just over an hour, i have a friend who lives in Newbridge which is prob over 30 miles from city centre and he gets the train at pretty much the same time as i get the bus.

I dont see the difference in commmuting from the 2 places if it takes the same amount of time to get into the city centre in the morning.

It's all about choice ubu. I live 8.5 miles out from the city, but I get into Harcourt Street in between 20 and 30 minutes every day. By motorcycle. That may not be everyone's cup of tea, but personally if I was to live somewhere, I'd assess how long it's going to take me to get in using a variety of modes, and not just think of "well, the bus takes an hour, so it's out". As someone else points out, you can make the santry trip in 30 minutes by bike.

In reality, I'd say 90% of people commit themselves to long tiring journeys without exploring the possibilities.

ubu · 27-10-2005 07:27PM

funnily enough, this thread got me thinking and i actually cycled in this morning, took me 22mins! the only reason i havent cycled in before is the unpredictablity of the weather and the fact ive to bring a bag with me and my back ends up covered in sweat.

MorningStar · 28-10-2005 08:43AM

ubu wrote:

funnily enough, this thread got me thinking and i actually cycled in this morning, took me 22mins! the only reason i havent cycled in before is the unpredictablity of the weather and the fact ive to bring a bag with me and my back ends up covered in sweat.

You can get a cycle bag for the bike or ones that have cooler portions for your back. The weather vcan be an issue but I cycle all year round and only actually got rained on about 20 times. It might be wet out but is rarely rains all day so you don't get rained on that much. Wind is an issue

positron · 31-10-2005 03:59PM

MorningStar wrote:

THe other problem is as commutes increase further out there is a big possibility your house prices may drop a lot quicker if you live further out than an easy commute.

I would agree, it sounds right, or at least in theory, but with trains getting full at Drogheda these days, I am yet to see any signs of house prices coming down in say, Balbriggan, or Rush & Lusk.

While some of the issues that you explained are perfectly valid, if living close to work is prohibitively expensive, its not always a bad decision to move out to the country. Considering my own situation as an example, when I used to live in Blanchardstown, it used to take me about same time to get to work, driving; longer if I were to take public transport. When I moved out to Drogheda, time spend commuting really didn't change for me, and it costs less (cost of train ticket - productivity, compared to fuel costs + car wear and tear + stress and other health issues). And there's a whole shopping centre on the entrance to my estate, groceries, take aways, butchers, pharmacy and even a medical practice!!

Commuting may not be for all, but its not always a bad move either.

dr zoidberg · 10-11-2005 02:52PM

daymobrew wrote:

I get the train to city centre from Coolmine (Maynooth line). The 7:54am inbound service is JAMMED - it's actually like those photos from India - REALLY!
I take it because it's quicker than driving and, despite the gross overcrowding, less stressful. I also get a chance to read.
Thankfully the return journey is a lot less crowded, though still no seat for me.

With the new timetable in December Irish Rail will be putting an extra train on in the morning so hopefully it will help things.

Jesus I know. The service is terrible - by the time the train leaves Leixlip it's already full (and i mean FULL - people standing, two stops into the journey). Can't imagine what it must be like to get on in Castleknock or Ashtown.

Anything more than 1h 30min is too long of a commute IMO. Thanks to the state of our roads, this could get you 35 km if you're lucky. Lucan for example is 15 km from the city centre but it takes an hour to drive (and about 50 min on the bus even with the QBCs), it's ridiculous!

Ideally if you're working in Dublin you should be in the 01 phone area. Of course, noone can afford Dublin houses anymore.

The problem is caused by a vicious cycle: the capital is the biggest population centre, so companies prefer to locate there for the large labour market. This creates jobs. This leads to more people moving to Dublin. The new "Atlantic corridor" motorway could help sort this out. The decentralisation plan would have helped aswell but it got torn to pieces by the media for some reason. It wasn't perfect but the idea was right.

NewDubliner · 11-11-2005 08:07PM

dr zoidberg wrote:

The decentralisation plan would have helped aswell but it got torn to pieces by the media for some reason. It wasn't perfect but the idea was right.

Whatever about the idea, the plan is hugely flawed & the full cost to the taxpayer, is still unknown. It is not just the media that question it. There's a lenghty thread on this in 'Politics'.

My current commute, by bicycle, is just 35 minutes door-to-door. If I go where the government wants me to go, it would be over 2 hours commute each way, by car. Houses in the new location cost the same as where I live now & it's miles away from my friends & family.

JohnBoy · 14-11-2005 06:21PM

50 minutes, I cover 39 miles in this time, just outside thurles to mitchelstown

for me an hour each way is the limit, but that assumes i'm moving, I'd find sitting in traffic for an hour soul destroying. I could never work in dublin, it's madness to me

dundalk cailin · 14-11-2005 06:38PM

well with the motorway open from dundalk to dublin, its only up the road for us to get to the outskirts of dub, but the actual city itself is another story...

How far is too far for Dublin commute

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