Decentralisation

black_jack · 04-10-2005 12:49AM

KieranusTyranus wrote:

Ok I accept the majority of people in Dublin and the surrounding counties are against it. But I seriously believe that it is one of the few good ideas this government has come up with. The only problem with it is that it doesnt go far enough. The rural areas of the country ( in paticular the West Borders and Midlands) get sweet **** all infasructure and development from the government and this has to change.

Kieran, I hope you're paying attention

smccarrick wrote:

Being in this situation myself- it will be interesting to see how they approach it. My s/o is contractually bound to go to Drogheda (DSFA) while my post is going to Portlaoise. The Decentralisation Policy Unit have told me personally that as Drogheda is over subscribed at my grade (and at all grades- as people intend to use it as a commutable location) that I it is highly unlikely that I will be offered a position there. As my s/o is still under probation- she has been told she will not be allowed transfer out of her Department........

998 couples getting sent to disparate locations- and 500 people ineligible to apply to be transferred together. Bet you they didn't see that one coming.......

You're getting an example of how this pointless and unnecessary move is affecting and will affect hundreds of people. What do you think 900 families looking for houses will do to house prices in Drogdhea?

Instead of lording some delusional self agrandising benefits this program is giving some rural communties you could look at the impact it has on our civil servants.

ishmael whale · 04-10-2005 02:24PM

IMPACT probably have their own agenda, but this complaint is close to the point. Why spend a pile of money so a few people can live closer to mammy in Clifden, and get a promotion into the bag? What makes decentralisation the thing we have to turn the world on its head to achieve?

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/10/04/story223818.html
Govt ‘promoting junior staff to fill decentralisation deficit’
04/10/2005 - 13:53:06

IMPACT has accused the Government of planning to promote junior staff to cover up problems with the decentralisation programme. The trade union claimed today that the Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats coalition was planning to fill decentralised posts by promoting junior staff at an unknown cost to the taxpayer.

It said the move was being implemented because senior and specialist staff did not want to move out of Dublin to new locations around the country.IMPACT said it now appeared that the most important qualification for a job in the civil service was not performance or skill, but a willingness to move out of the capital.

Tuars · 04-10-2005 06:04PM

black_jack wrote:

Instead of lording some delusional self agrandising benefits this program is giving some rural communties you could look at the impact it has on our civil servants.

And if you have no sympathy for civil servants you should look at the impact decentralisation has on the civil service itself. I don't think the country can afford to demolish and rebuild the civil service in this way. It's going to have a massive negative impact on our ability to run the country for many years to come.

NewDubliner · 05-10-2005 06:23PM

Parlon was interviewed on RTE 6.1. He's positioning himself as just dealing in the properties and is setting up Finance to take the blame when the numbers come up short. Also still claiming that Impact is holding out for a deal, even though Impact have asked for nothing other than that it's members be allowed to stay in Dublin.

uncivilservant · 05-10-2005 10:00PM

NewDubliner wrote:

Parlon was interviewed on RTE 6.1. He's positioning himself as just dealing in the properties and is setting up Finance to take the blame when the numbers come up short. Also still claiming that Impact is holding out for a deal, even though Impact have asked for nothing other than that it's members be allowed to stay in Dublin.

http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/2080124.smil

Victor · 05-10-2005 10:50PM

NewDubliner wrote:

Parlon was interviewed on RTE 6.1. He's positioning himself as just dealing in the properties and is setting up Finance to take the blame when the numbers come up short. Also still claiming that Impact is holding out for a deal, even though Impact have asked for nothing other than that it's members be allowed to stay in Dublin.

Ties interestingly with the bit below. While I imagine a lot of it is down to roads, I suspect a bit of it might be down to Decentralisation also.

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/6449561?view=Eircomnet

Budgetary position still ahead of target, data shows

....

The deficit of capital expenditure over capital revenue amounted to just €3,361 million for the first three quarters, compared with a budgeted deficit of €7,080 for the year.

Excluding the impact of so-called capital carryover effects, where unspent money is carried forward from one year to the next, capital spending rose by just 3.2 per cent in the year to September, compared with a revised estimate of 12.5 per cent for the year.

Tom Heffernan, principal officer in the public expenditure division of the department, said that difficulties concerning the acquisition of land were affecting capital spending across a range of projects.

.....

"Once again the Government has shown itself incapable of delivering its projected infrastructure projects. It is four years since the Taoiseach has promised a national strategic infrastructure Bill to speed up the delivery of key infrastructures. It will be years before we see this appear," said Mr Bruton.

NewDubliner · 06-10-2005 07:34AM

From Today's Independent:

2,000 civil servants to transfer by 2006
ADVERTISEMENT

UP tp 2,000 civil servants are expected to have moved to new decentralised locations around the country by the end of next year.

Junior Minister, Tom Parlon, said staff transferring from one Department to another does not present a difficulty.

Fine Gael deputy Richard Bruton questioned the transfer of staff, asking how they could allow members of staff in a non-related Department or agency to join the Health and Safety Authority for example, as an inspector.

"We want the organisations affected to do their job effectively. We do not want to fit square pegs into round holes," Mr Bruton said.

However, Minister Parlon defended decentralisation saying he anticipates the ability of staff to work in a Department of their choice close to where they live would have a positive impact on efficiency and eliminate the need to commute for five or six hours a day.

Geraldine Collins
Dail Correspondent

Parlon seems to be substituting wishful thinking for planning.

How many of the 2000 are leaving Dublin?

holly_johnson · 06-10-2005 09:14AM

I have just watched the Parlon ionterview on 6-1. Does anyone know what building in Ballsbridge he is referring to selling?? I sincerely hope it is not the one I am currently based in!!
If it is, nothing will surprise me anymore, sure why tell the staff that we are going to be shunted to somewhere else? That would involve giving a crap about us, not something I feel is likely to happen any time soon.

ishmael whale · 06-10-2005 11:41AM

However, Minister Parlon defended decentralisation saying he anticipates the ability of staff to work in a Department of their choice close to where they live would have a positive impact on efficiency and eliminate the need to commute for five or six hours a day.

Leaving aside the fantasy of five to six hours commutes being a common experience, and the far more effective ways of reducing commuting times than moving a handful of office staff from one town to another, Parlon is again sidestepping the issue of the lack of sense of the whole exercise.
Is he suggesting that a Cartographer can fill a post as a Probation Officer, while an administrator from the Department of Social Welfare takes over his old job in the Ordnance Survey, and a former Quantity Surveyor from the Office of Public Works takes over their IT systems? And what happens to all the Cartographers who opt to stay in Dublin? Do we redeploy them on full salary onto some FAS scheme, as we understand jobs are to be available for anyone not decentralising? To reveal the essential imbecility of the whole scheme, all you need to do is follow the Cartographers.

NewDubliner wrote:

How many of the 2000 are leaving Dublin?

Last time I looked, roughly half of the applications for the new locations were from people already located in regional centres, and the bulk of Dublin volunteers were seeking to move to Mid-Eastern/Eastern locations such as Newbridge and Trim.

Zaph0d · 06-10-2005 01:02PM

From yesterday's Dáil debate:

Mr. Bruton: How can we allow members of staff in a non-related Department or agency join the Health and Safety Authority as inspectors? We want the organisations affected to do their job effectively. We do not want to fit square pegs into round holes.

Mr. Parlon: Of the 10,600 civil servants affected by decentralisation, approximately 1,000 are specialist staff while the others are ...

I was waiting for him to say 'monkeys with salaries'

...ordinary civil servants from various grades.

pete · 06-10-2005 02:15PM

holly_johnson wrote:

Does anyone know what building in Ballsbridge he is referring to selling??

The Veterinary College, I believe.

holly_johnson · 06-10-2005 02:22PM

pete wrote:

The Veterinary College, I believe.

That's a relief.. for me at least. Are there staff in that building or is it just DCU?

The_Conductor · 06-10-2005 02:42PM

holly_johnson wrote:

That's a relief.. for me at least. Are there staff in that building or is it just DCU?

UCD you mean I think

No one left in the building- the school was moved out to Belfield. If my memory serves me right the building was condemned?

The_Conductor · 06-10-2005 03:37PM

AHCPS report of the decentralisation meeting last week

holly_johnson · 06-10-2005 04:48PM

smccarrick wrote:

UCD you mean I think
No one left in the building- the school was moved out to Belfield. If my memory serves me right the building was condemned?

Oops me bad... sorry

NewDubliner · 06-10-2005 06:23PM

Finance have just advertised 'Kildare only' AP and HEO competitions in CMOD for people with some IT experience:

https://www.publicjobs.ie/cand/JobDetails_eng.asp?JobID=949&hdnGUID=&hdnJobID=593

https://www.publicjobs.ie/cand/JobDetails_eng.asp?JobID=950&hdnGUID=&hdnJobID=594

I wonder how this affects the existing job-holders or has Finance sanctioned itself for additional posts?

Doctor Benway · 06-10-2005 07:16PM

smccarrick wrote:

UCD you mean I think
No one left in the building- the school was moved out to Belfield. If my memory serves me right the building was condemned?

Well there's no one in that building now anyway - it's been flattened by OPW contractors.

There's also the Old Faculty Building on the same site (and, let's face it, it's the site that's being sold rather than the building) which houses some Justice people who were moved out there when the building on Stephen's Green was sold off. They're due to move back into town in the New Year (to Ardilaun House, behind the Unitarian Church and to the Bank of Scotland building on Harcourt Street, as well as to a couple of other places in the general area).

NewDubliner · 06-10-2005 09:54PM

The AHCPS have just published updated stats received from Finance. Details of rejected offers yet to come:http://www.ahcps.ie/decentralisation/Decentralisation%20Update6Oct05.rtf

....The overall situation is that there are 7212.5 civil service jobs to decentralise but only 3741 applications from Dublin. This leaves a Dublin surplus of 3471.5. An additional 3094 staff already in the provinces have applied to relocate elsewhere down the country.

3. In the general civil service the total number of jobs decentralising is 6179 in respect of which there are 3370 applicants from Dublin (a shortfall of 2809) with 2732 staff in the provinces wishing to change their decentralised locations....

uncivilservant · 06-10-2005 10:29PM

Doctor Benway wrote:

houses some Justice people who were moved out there when the building on Stephen's Green was sold off.

actually if memory serves they were moved out there temporarily while their old building on Stephen's Green was "renovated" for them.... until TP decided to sell it off, that is.

The_Conductor · 07-10-2005 10:30AM

Hot off the presses- from the PSEU

mrhappy42 · 07-10-2005 10:54AM

Hot of the presses...so much detail and so little conclusion. I hope the members realise their dues are paying for this...I'd be more worried about value for money from the PSEU than the goverment.

eigrod · 07-10-2005 12:36PM

smccarrick wrote:

Hot off the presses- from the PSEU

2 years after the initial announcement, there is finally an element of a feasibility study.

Alas it :

a) was not carried out in advance
b) not carried out by the project sponsor [ ie Dept of Finance ] but by the staff representatives

But I guess there has been plenty of evidence recently of how project management should be carried out in the 21st century :rolleyes:

Firetrap · 08-10-2005 05:12PM

From the Breaking News in today's (Saturday) Irish Indo
Parlon criticises decentralisation budget

16:01 Saturday October 8th 2005

The Government's decentralisation plans are being criticised again, this time by one of its own, Junior Finance Minister Tom Parlon.
Minister Parlon said that Charlie McCreevy's original budget proposals were 'overly ambitious'.

Under the plan, thousands of civil servants should have been relocated to more than 50 locations around the country within three years.

However, Mr Parlon did say that decentralisation offers the biggest ever opportunity for civil servants to work where and in what department they want.

================================================

Even the "Minister for Decentralisation" is turning on the plan! I would like to know what he means by "decentralisation offers the biggest ever opportunity for civil servants to work where and in what department they want". What about all the staff in offices who are already working where they want and don't want to move to the middle of nowhere???

NewDubliner · 08-10-2005 06:40PM

allie_e17 wrote:

From the Breaking News in today's (Saturday) Irish Indo
Parlon criticises decentralisation budget
... Parlon did say that decentralisation offers the biggest ever opportunity for civil servants to work where and in what department they want.

So that was the plan all along? And, it costs HOW MUCH? :eek:

From www.tomparlon.ie, statement made by Tom Parlkon on September 9th:

"....Progress has been made and is continuing on the acquisition of sites and properties and the time-table set by the Decentralisation Implementation Group can be achieved”.

ishmael whale · 12-10-2005 01:13PM

One might ask why, given the concern at falling tourist numbers, the board of Failte Ireland are spending their time looking at offices in Mallow. But, then, obviously everything has to take second place to this agenda.

http://www.examiner.ie/pport/web/business/Full_Story/did-sgoo1cKXKf74AsgHuTLc4nqWo2.asp
Fáilte staff want to stay in Dublin
By Seán O’Riordan
PROPOSALS to decentralise 200 jobs to Mallow could take 10 years to complete because Fáilte Ireland staff want to remain in Dublin. Concerns were raised in Mallow yesterday after the chairman and a board member of Fáilte Ireland admitted a number of staff were reluctant to move from their Dublin headquarters to the north Cork town.

……The Fáilte Ireland chairman said she couldn’t, as yet, give a timetable for any move. “I hope it will happen within 10 years, but I can’t say exactly when. Over the next 18 months, it should become a lot clearer,” Ms Bowler said.

Local county councillor Noel O’Connor said he was very concerned at the news. “From what I have heard, I’m not very confident now, but we must still keep lobbying.” ….

Dinarius · 12-10-2005 07:40PM

Just been thinking about the great vote buying fiascos in my lifetime.......

1. Abolition of domestic rates in 1977. The worst thing that ever happened to local government, starving it of revenue and making this country even more centralised that it ever had been previously.

2. Abolition of university fees. Insane. Feeding the middle-classes that vote them in. It now appears that private schools are having a field day with parents spending money, that they would otherwise have earmarked for third-level, on avoiding the state sector secondary schools which have been starved of resources. (My niece attends a private Dublin school which has a computer room containing 30 broadband connected Macs. The library has a further 15.)

3. Medical cards for the over 70s. I know retired civil servants and retired bank managers who do not need this and there are thousands like them. Again, robbing the poor to feed the rich. We really are the 51st state, aren't we?

4. Decentralisation.............enough said.

With all of these obscenities, it has been shown time and again that, once you let the genie out of the bottle, you can't put it back without great electoral risk. Is it any wonder that the opposition are equivocating so much in the case of decentralisation? Shameful, but what's new?

D.

pete · 14-10-2005 10:19PM

did someone mention the cartographers?

THE Government has received applications and expressions of interest from civil and public servants to fill less than a third of the 210 Ordnance Survey Ireland jobs it wants to transfer to Dungarvan.

But the Government has only received 15 applications from staff at Ordnance Survey Ireland, which is based in the Phoenix Park, to decentralise to Dungarvan. According to Minister Cowen, the Government has received a further 47 expressions of interest in decentralising to the town from staff working elsewhere in the civil and public service.

http://www.waterford-news.ie/news/story.asp?j=19577

ishmael whale · 15-10-2005 02:18AM

However, despite the lack of staff for Dungarvan the purchase of a site goes ahead.

Meanwhile SIPTU seem to be stepping up opposition. While anything that frustrates this ludicrous plan is welcome, the problem is this paints decentralisation as an industrial relations matter rather than simply an incredibly stupid way of wasting vast amounts of money to no avail.

http://www.unison.ie/offaly_independent/stories.php3?ca=34&si=1488645&issue_id=13143
SIPTU to fight Birr 390-job decentralisation
Tadhg Carey
deputy editor
The country’s largest union has set its face against the proposed decentralisation of 390-plus FAS jobs to Birr.

SIPTU, at its annual conference last week, adopted a motion seeking the removal of FÁS and all non-commercial state agencies from the government’s “flawed decentralisation plan”. It’s expected SIPTU will now intensify its campaign of opposition to plans to decentralise all state agencies.

The motion was proposed by the union’s State and Related Agencies Branch and seconded by the SIPTU FAS branch -which accounts for over 1,800 of FAS’s 2,350 members. The government is planning to move the entire FAS head office from Dublin to Birr. A date in 2009 has been set for the relocation.

However, Greg Ennis, branch secretary of the FAS branch, told the Offaly Independent internal surveys of FAS head office staff indicated just five had an interest in relocating to Birr.

Dinarius · 15-10-2005 05:16PM

ishmael whale wrote:

the problem is this paints decentralisation as an industrial relations matter rather than simply an incredibly stupid way of wasting vast amounts of money to no avail.

Very well put.

D.

NewDubliner · 16-10-2005 08:31PM

ishmael whale wrote:

Meanwhile SIPTU seem to be stepping up opposition. While anything that frustrates this ludicrous plan is welcome, the problem is this paints decentralisation as an industrial relations matter rather than simply an incredibly stupid way of wasting vast amounts of money to no avail.

It's a pity that the unions do not see the waste of taxes being paid by members as an issue in itself.

If past utterances are anything to go by, Tom Parlon will claim that the SIPTU members are just holding out for a deal. He's already insinuated this on Impact.

Decentralisation

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