Eircom League - Genesis III

Töpher · 24-09-2005 12:42PM

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote:

I think the most saddening thing of all is that all our international players come from The Permiership or England, and the one time we tried an irish league player, it was a disaster and we have enver seen of him again.

To make the EL any use what so ever you need good players and to make a campaign that is attractive to young people. In my group of 20 friends 2-4 guys support EL teams, bout 1 is a big fan who can name like all his teams players.

But I think the big problem is that the EL has just poor players. There is no like say prestige, any Sunday league team can feel they can beat a EL team. I personally at my elvel have played and beaten teams like Shells,Bohs,Pats. Although its not like senior level there is no fear when you play them.........not as much a fear as when i played USA u-15 and numerous english teams on tour.

Now we're getting into EL fans have no intelligence (as implied by your first post)??

There is a game on live most fortnights at the moment, thats more regular than ever before, and there's usually about 3 cameras. Admittedly its not the 756 multi viewing angles Sky have, but there's not the funding for that.

Shelbourne for example currently have 3 players with Irish international honours, and another 1 who will no doubt soon be rewarded, having been on the bench before.

Try telling anyone who's watched Liam Kearney, Wes Hoolihan, George O'Callaghan, Joey Ndo (26 Cameroon caps ffs!

), Keith Fahey, to name but a few, that they're poor players and you'll look like an idiot!

As was already pointed out, Wes Hoolihan was so good Deportivo had to make a substitution with the specific puropse of man marking him! That didn't even happen against Dinamo Bucharest for Everton. Or for Celtic versus Artmedia.

MrJoeSoap · 24-09-2005 01:00PM

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote:

and the one time we tried an irish league player, it was a disaster and we have enver seen of him again.

But I think the big problem is that the EL has just poor players. There is no like say prestige, any Sunday league team can feel they can beat a EL team. I personally at my elvel have played and beaten teams like Shells,Bohs,Pats.

Bull and bull. End of. The last time Bohs played St. Mochtas (my local team) in a friendly, they lost 10-0 (Derek Swan bagged 5). And that was before the league turned professional.

To say a Sunday League team could challenge a team like Shels with two players with Irish caps, a Cameroonian international (who has made the bench for most of the season) and plenty of other quality is ridiculous.

I don't really know why I'm arguing this. I wonder would these Sunday league teams hold Deportivo to a draw or knock Djurgardens out of the Uefa Cup?

To be honest, as much as this league needs fans, I'd actually prefer if attitudes like yours stayed away from the EL. Which suits us both, I reckon.

Slash/ED · 24-09-2005 01:36PM

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote:

Stopped reading after first post. Eircom league ahsnt really come on. Maybe because I never got into it. But its rarely on TV, the coverage is terrible. The match ticket prices are cheap but I'm sorry I went to one match and felt like I sohuld be paid to watch it. Terrible quality of football.

Irish football will never, not for this century, ever come on par with any other league in europe because simply our players just go to england, simple as that. The only country in probably the world where our good players simply go straight to another english club. I know from personal experience and friends experience,that playing for Shelbourne and Bohs you go to trials for english clubs ebfore you even get a notic in the first team= /

And any match I've watched on TV has had like 1 camera at it, and it just looks terrible, Sunday league football.I'd love to be able to support an irish team. I support Leeds because they had and still do have a very strong irish core in their team. But irish football in EL is the pits and anyone who says different is just letting passion emerge over intellegence.

You people are suggesting I give up my team so clowns like him have a tailor made league 'worthy' of their support?

Simply not going to happen.

As for Rooster, who said he'd support a ready made Fingal team. What about when Shels move to Fingal as they will do in a few years?

Big Ears · 24-09-2005 04:42PM

I feel like going on a rant but il just stick to this:

If you are one of those complaining about the English League at the moment , try and get to your nearest LOI club for a game if possible . Its not that expensive and if you live in Dublin there will be a club nearish to you . If you live in Tipp , Clare , Mayo , many others then its best just to watch the league on tv and pick a team to support and try and get to a few of their games . (of course if you already follow the league ignore this)

Any reforms that happen in Ireland regarding the league should either be about including Northern Ireland in an All-Ireland League , changing the amount of teams in the Premier and first divisions or form new clubs in areas far from any other EL club but could generate good crowds .

applehunter · 24-09-2005 06:27PM

The Genesis report should be interesting reading.

Some of the suggestions about disbanding teams etc. are unlikely to be made.

I can see somthing like the progress The Bord na gCon re faciliites being mentioned. Maybe groundsharing.

More involvement within the community and more interaction between the senior clubs and junior clubs.

Professional Administraion is definately a priority also.

Nothing we dont know already but it will be good to have a guideline for the future.

Töpher · 26-09-2005 02:09PM

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Bull and bull. End of. The last time Bohs played St. Mochtas (my local team) in a friendly, they lost 10-0 (Derek Swan bagged 5). And that was before the league turned professional.

To say a Sunday League team could challenge a team like Shels with two players with Irish caps, a Cameroonian international (who has made the bench for most of the season) and plenty of other quality is ridiculous.

I don't really know why I'm arguing this. I wonder would these Sunday league teams hold Deportivo to a draw or knock Djurgardens out of the Uefa Cup?

To be honest, as much as this league needs fans, I'd actually prefer if attitudes like yours stayed away from the EL. Which suits us both, I reckon.

3 Irish caps!

Ireland:
8 - Alan Moore
1 - Glen Crowe
1 - Jason Byrne
0 - Weso Hoolihan, but he's been on the bench, and will hopefulyl get his chance!

Cameroon:
26 - Joey Ndo

MrJoeSoap · 26-09-2005 03:46PM

My apologies! Moore Moore Moore has been so scarce this season I forgot all about him!

gimmick · 26-09-2005 06:03PM

Elite premier division is proposed
Emmet Malone Soccer Correspondent

National League: A return to a 10-team premier division in an expanded national league, radically changed management structures and ground-sharing deals by Dublin's four leading clubs are among the recommendations - to be made public today - made by Genesis for the revitalisation of the Eircom League.

The Scottish consultants yesterday delivered their preliminary recommendations to club representatives in Dublin, where officials were told an "elite" 10-team division should be established with two regionalised groups of 10 operating underneath it.

The move would mean an expansion of the league from 22 to 30 teams, although it is envisaged some of the new entrants could be representative sides such as the Mayo and Kerry district league teams that have been competing in the League Cup by invitation for several years.

It is anticipated the structure would result in a largely professional premier division and a mixture of semi-professional and amateur teams in the regional divisions.

This may cause resistance amongst clubs who would fear missing the initial cut and then struggling to catch up on those clubs who received more substantial funding as a result of being a part of the new leading group from the outset.

Promotion and relegation would probably be restricted so as to allow teams in the top flight to generate long-term investment but the precise mechanisms have not been worked out.

In addition to the three senior divisions, the current under-21 league and a new under-18 league would both be run on the basis of geographical groupings.

Clubs wishing to compete in the league would have to sign up to participation agreements which, it is envisaged, would be used to further raise standards and improve the image of the game. Minimum levels of investment in facilities, a wage "policy" likely to effectively amount to a cap on the percentage of turnover that could be paid to players and various other development issues would be covered in the agreement, which would require a good deal more than the present licensing system.

In return, clubs could benefit from improved central marketing and more effectively targeted investment of public and FAI funds. On this latter point, Genesis officials told those attending yesterday's meeting at the Green Isle Hotel that clubs serving large population centres would be likely to receive priority.

It was pointed out, however, there would be a reluctance to substantially fund the development of four stadiums for the main clubs and there would be considerable pressure on the clubs to come to ground-sharing deals, which would be likely, if the resistance of club officials and their supporters could be overcome, to yield just one stadium on each side of the river.

The report recommends, as the previous Genesis report did, the streamlining of management structures at the top, with the current 22-club management committee being replaced by a group of seven or eight, only half of whom would be elected club officials. The rest of the places on this group would go to full-time league or FAI officers, marketing executives and, it is envisaged, a representative of the league's sponsors.

Not surprisingly, there is strong support for the idea of a merger between the league and the association.

Further discussions on the document will take place today with representatives of the clubs, sponsoring companies and media, amongst others, and FAI officials say the feedback will be taken into account before a final list of proposals is drawn up.

Waterford United officials, meanwhile, have dismissed reports Pat Dolan is set to take over from Brendan Rea as manager of the struggling premier club. "There's absolutely no truth in it whatsoever," said director Martin Colbert yesterday.

© The Irish Times

Töpher · 26-09-2005 06:04PM

I think he's been struggling with various injuries, quality player when he has the motivation, so fingers crossed we'll see some of his skill next season again, if not before this season ends!

Reading the FAI Press release, it does seem to make alot of sense. Although I would be against ground-sharing, if it helps Shelbourne's future, I'll be happy. The restructuing of the first division does seem like a positive step, and the re-introducion of a 10 team, 36 game, elite divison would make me happy. Although now we have 12 in the top flight, I can't see the weaker clubs agreeing to drop out quietly!

And who can blame them?

And of course, a full merger is IMO a necessity.

www.shelbournefc.ie wrote:

Football Association of Ireland
Press Release

Genesis says radical reform is required for eircom League to survive

The Strategic Management consultants, Genesis, have said that radical reform of the eircom League is required to secure its future. Managing Director Alistair Gray said that many League clubs are financially unsustainable and the League in its current format is near to being bankrupt, economically and commercially as a sporting product. Genesis recommends sweeping changes to its structures and operations in order to sustain itself into the future.

Mr Gray was speaking as details of Genesis’ “white paper” were outlined to stakeholders within the game. Genesis had been commissioned by the eircom League and the FAI to review the League and prepare the “white paper” regarding the future strategic direction of the League in Ireland.

Mr Gray said the opportunity existed to radically reform the eircom League and create a successful vibrant senior game, integrated with the rest of football in Ireland. “The vision of a financially viable, sustainable, successful and marketable League can only occur if the reforms are radical – tinkering around with the League will lead it nowhere”, Mr Gray said.

He also said the current situation where the League is not managed by the FAI yet is financially dependent on the Association was unworkable.

Genesis have recommended actions across 10 key areas:

· Merge fully with the FAI
o Gives the League the benefits of operating under one operational entity; increases in marketing and sponsorship benefits and benefits for football as a whole
· Change management structure running the League
o Existing 22 strong Management Committee to be reduced to 8 person Executive Board with outside representation
· Revamp League structures
o National League of 10 teams with two regional Leagues (10 teams each) with under 18 and under 21 regional Leagues and links to schoolboys
· Create mandatory participation agreements
o Based on the principle of a contract, clubs will be invited to apply for membership of the league and must sign the participation agreement and be bound by its contents which will be strongly linked to the club licensing scheme

· Prioritise investment in facilities development
o Investment should be prioritized on the clubs with clear strategic plans and should deliver a range of high quality, family friendly stadia.
o Dublin clubs will be encouraged to consider ground-sharing if they are to attract significant public funds for investment.
· Step change in approach to marketing
o The league should be re-branded and re-launched as part of a fully revised marketing strategy.
· Improve club administration
o Clubs must be managed to high levels of professionalism to raise the overall standards operating with long-term plans
· Introduce wage controls
o Mandatory wage control mechanism should be put in place for all clubs within the National League limiting spending to a maximum of 65% of turnover on players’ wages and costs. This should be monitored and enforced rigorously
· Create clear development structures
o Incorporating coaching, training and underage structures
· Invest heavily in community links
o Much stronger links needed to grow the game. League club to act as pinnacle of football in an area.

Commenting on the white paper, FAI Chief Executive Officer John Delaney said the document provided a pathway for the successful development of the game at senior level.
“The challenge is now to grasp the ideas and press ahead in consultation with the stakeholders to reform the League”, he said. “Leaving the status quo is not an option for the League or the FAI”, he added.

Chairman of the eircom League, Paddy McCaul said the consultation process which led to today’s white paper was productive and the outcomes, in general, reflect the inputs of the stakeholders of the game. “eircom League clubs know that change has to take place in order for the League to prosper again”, he said. “We now have to continue that engagement to make the changes necessary for the future viability of the League”, headed.

Following a request from the eircom League the FAI Board has appointed John Byrne as Acting Director of the League. Michael Hayes, Acting General Manager, now assumes the position of Operations Manager for the League.

The Genesis “white paper” is available on the web at www.fai.ie

http://www.fai.ie/images/eircomleaguewhitepaper.doc

Issued on behalf of the FAI by:

Pat Costello
Director Corporate Affairs
Football Association of Ireland

gimmick · 26-09-2005 06:09PM

Right, Ive just waded my way through this thread, and cannot believe the tripe I have seen.

Ill keep this short

Rooster, you lost all credibility in your assertions with

I've never been to an Eircom League game, and dont really intend to go.

Dublin isnt that big. And as Applehunter so eloquently put it

I will say is that these 15 male friends, did their location in Dublin make a difference to their support for clubs accross the water?

[DM]-TheDOC- I am just assuming you are trying to wind people up, as your commenst are laughable.

To make the EL any use what so ever you need good players and to make a campaign that is attractive to young people. In my group of 20 friends 2-4 guys support EL teams, bout 1 is a big fan who can name like all his teams players.

They are football fans or football viewers? There is a difference.

Slash/ED · 26-09-2005 06:36PM

Einst&#252 wrote: »

3 Irish caps!

Ireland:
8 - Alan Moore
1 - Glen Crowe
1 - Jason Byrne
0 - Weso Hoolihan, but he's been on the bench, and will hopefulyl get his chance!

Cameroon:
26 - Joey Ndo

To be even more padantic

Curtis Flemming - 10 or so?

And Glen Crowe has 2 caps.

So that's four full internationals, two world cups worth of experience, one who's been in the senior squad. Not to mention numerous youth caps (Indeed, Weso got nominated for Irish U21 player of the year).

As for the report, some good points raised.

Ten team premier division, Yes. Far better than the unfair 33 game system (And, if Shels somehow win the league this year by 3 or less points, I will be the first to say it is not proper reflection on the league due to the uneven amount of home and away games teams have, what with City having one more away than home game to play and playing in Tolka Park twice, it is simply not fair)

Expanding the league to include teams places that don't currently have teams, yes. Not too sure about the regionalised idea but if it helps add teams and cut down on expences then yes.

Ideally however, 16 team all Ireland premier division and regionalised first divisions is what we want, with the new teams added too if possible.

Big Ears · 27-09-2005 07:47PM

I like the proposals , especially as it leaves room for the creation of a Tipperary team . The part about wages not exceading a certain percentage of turnover is key aswell .

The Rooster · 28-09-2005 09:34AM

Not sure why I've lost credibility with you or anyone gimmick.

Certainly I'd have no credibility if we were discussing whether Cork or Derry are going to win the league this year. But this thread is about how to improve the Eircom League and encourage sports fans and potential sports fans to go to games.

In my opinion, THE most important thing the Eircom League needs to do is to attract more fans. Everything else will flow from that because it will generate revenue. It seems the attitude of many Eircom league fans is that they're quite happy with the ways things are - hence you go to the games. Ironically, you people are not really important to this debate, you're already on the hook. But the attitude of not wanting the armchair fans or looking down on sports fans who dont go to Eircom league, will certainly not help entice new followers. And thats exactly what you have to do - entice new supporters. They're not just going to turn up because they've nothing else to do at the weekend.

From yesterday's Times:
The amount of money paid in sports sponsorship in Ireland is estimated at €67,000,000.
Of this €587,000 goes to the Eircom League or to Eircom League clubs. Less than 1%.
There's a reason for that.

gimmick · 28-09-2005 10:47AM

Perhaps I could ahve chosen my wording better Rooster, however, I honestly beleive that so many people have pre-concieved notions about eL football that they cant get their heads around the fact that they might actually enjoy it.

By saying you have no intentions of ever going is short sighted.

Töpher · 28-09-2005 11:52AM

The Eircom League needs to attract fans yes. But its hard when people have their preconceived notions of how it will be terrible, how do you change their minds? They're always going to retort with "its crap", well excuse me for asking, but if you've never been how would you know?

I'd have much more respect for people who write it off if they'd actually tried a game or two and experienced the atmosphere and watched the footballing displays. And then if they don't like it fine, at least they made the effort and have a leg they can stand on in a constructive discussion. They'd at least have an real opinion to base their points on, rather than preconceived notions that they got into their heads. Sure, didn't Hitler have this preconceived notion that all Jews were evil?

As I said on another thread, its akin to a virgin saying they don't like having sex!

Pigman II · 28-09-2005 12:18PM

Einst&#252 wrote: »

I'd have much more respect for people who write it off if they'd actually tried a game or two ....

As I said on another thread, its akin to a virgin saying they don't like having sex!

Oh really? Have you ever had sex with a man?

Because if you've never tried it then how do you know you don't like it?

//

Point being, I think it's one thing to tell people that something is out there for them to try but its another to chastise them for not caring about it or spouting off about it with uninformed opinions. If they don't want to go to EL games or have a bad opinion of the league then so be it. I for one have better things to be doing than preaching to them about something they don't want to hear anyway and you might find besides that the disenchanted will be more inclinded to change their views if they DONT get an earbashing.

Töpher · 28-09-2005 12:21PM

Pigman II wrote:

Oh really? Have you ever had sex with a man?

Because if you've never tried it then how do you know you don't like it?

No.

Never claimed not to. Can't base a judgement on something I haven't tried.

Suffce to say the opportunity never arose, ha. But I'd never judge anyone who does, or question their reasoning and say "its crap".

Genghis · 28-09-2005 12:34PM

I've always thought that Ireland alone is too small to develop soccer on its own. I would think that a Celtic league arrangement might work better. Co-incidentally the NI, Scottish and Welsh leagues face the same challenge.

Imagine:

One league with (say) 24 teams from ROI, 24 teams from Scotland, 10 from NI, and 6 from Wales.

Divided into 3 Divisions (20, 22, 22) or 4 Division (16 Each). The season would involve one home and one away fixture per season, and I favour the Summer football idea (good commercially, see first benefit point below)

Celtic and Rangers would join Premiership / Championship in England (being far superior than any other team in either existing league, this is likely to happen anyway)

European spots derived from success in the league could either be pooled, or an agreement reached whereby the top placed teams from each association could pursue European competition. National associations could also retain cup competitions with European places available to ensure that at least one representative from each association makes it to Europe.

The league would begin with a set number of teams in each division from each association (say for the 20 in the First division, it could be 9 Scottish, 6 ROI and 3 from NI and 2 from Wales), with some protection mechanism to ensure that this remains in place for maybe the first 3 years until the league is established.

Thereafter, there would be the usual direct promotion / relegation.

Benefits -

Synergystic Commercial appeal - would Sky do a deal with Wales, FAI, IFA? They don't even consider Scottish football to be of value anymore. However, a Celtic league would hold appeal as there would be substantial interest / audience across the combined 16m+ population. Also, there is scope for regional side-deals with RTE / BBC regions, etc.

Likewise, sponsorship etc would more easily follow.

Crowds would be drawn to the bigger games, attracted by the local as well as international dynamic to the matches.

Improved competition between teams - Look how European competition improves EL teams - Wouldn't week-in week-out football against the likes of Linfield, Hearts, Hibs, etc deliver consistent results?

More attractive for top players - all leagues (with the possible exception of Scotland) leak native talent and have some trouble attracting foreign players - this would be less of a problem under the Celtic League.

The role of the FAI / IFA / Scottish FA and Welsh FA would be to ensure that their representation in the top divisions remains as high as possible. They could operate other regional / lower level leagues from which teams could be promoted to reach the national quota as outlined above.)

I realise my plan is ambitious, and I fully expect that people will easily pick problems with it. The biggest problem I see will the surrender of national fiefdoms the plan requires. In addition, UEFA may not like the idea as it could set a precedent that could ultimately challenge their European competitions (however, there is also an argument that it reduces the inequality imposed on smaller leagues that is brought about by the super leagues in England, Spain, Italy, etc)

[Jackass] · 28-09-2005 12:36PM

Although expected, Im delighted to see a EL FAI merger recomended, as it's vital.
I'm disapointed there's no mention of even attemptig a All-Ireland elite leauge, as of yet anyway, as if we're starting a new leauge, that would be one of the main pulling points..
Im glad there is going to be a 10 team elite leauge with restrcitions on promotion/relegation as 1st division and beyond serves no real purpose, and is packed with clubs that mighn't even survuve another 10 years.
I also like the proposed structure of regional leagues below the new elite league, and the new links to grass roots. All though you could say it's a bit of a cop outcompared to what I was recomending as a entire regional league. I suppose they didn't have the balls to go that one step forward :rolleyes:

FAI Press release wrote:

In return, clubs could benefit from improved central marketing and more effectively targeted investment of public and FAI funds. On this latter point, Genesis officials told those attending yesterday's meeting at the Green Isle Hotel that clubs serving large population centres would be likely to receive priority.

You cant get more central, and more effectively targted marketing than the entire Dublin population, with a North/South divide.

It was pointed out, however, there would be a reluctance to substantially fund the development of four stadiums for the main clubs and there would be considerable pressure on the clubs to come to ground-sharing deals, which would be likely, if the resistance of club officials and their supporters could be overcome, to yield just one stadium on each side of the river.

These 2 points, to me, clearly indicate there are too many clubs in Dublin, there isn't enough room or money for them, and it's a waist of money having 5 clubs paying rents etc. competeing for an amount of fanbase only big enough to sustain one, maybe two clubs max. as it stands. It's unsustainable, a north/south divide makes more sense, the infrastructure they're even introducing would perfectly sugest and sustain it. Possibly they have it in the back of there mind as a long term objective.

It also refers to the marketing:

"clubs serving large population centres would be likely to receive priority."

Again, indicating the 5 clubs in dublin waisting resources, there's a lot more to go around when it's only split 2 ways, and with only 2 clubs it covers the entire population of Dublin, not patches. Again, You cant get larger population centres than 2 clubs for the entire Dublin population...instead of 5 clubs for about one 10th of it.

Do the FAI & EL have the balls? are they going to dip their toe in the water and make some changes, which ultimatly canges nothing in the long run, or are they going to jump in and make these "radical changes needed for the EL to survive" the report refers to?

The real answers are: merge FAI & EL, absolute overhaul of club structures, two Dublin stadiums, two Dublin clubs north/ south divide, regionalise teams in elite league, incorporate north of Ireland, use the massive investment money that would be generated by a new look league on marketing...there would be substantually more fans per club geographicly, and the marketing money would be far more evenly distributed, reachig far more fans, which marketing has proven, means more people at matches, which means more money again...etc. etc. you've got the makings of a quality league.

I think I'm backed up by the research of Genises:

"Alistair Gray said that many League clubs are financially unsustainable and the League in its current format is near to being bankrupt, economically and commercially as a sporting product. Genesis recommends sweeping changes to its structures and operations in order to sustain itself into the future."

No body's interested in the product of Shelbourne, Pats, Rovers etc. Where will they be re-locating to next week? Tallaght? Swords? I wonder which team will be moving in near me soon? Fans are alienated with all these clubs...the dis-organisation, shifting around every season...the ecomomic uncertainty....will Rovers be around in 5 years? it's anyones guess how many grounds they'll play in between now and then...so where's the fan base? and where does that fan base go if they're not around? No it's a mess, and it's what makes the league and those clubs financially unstable, and it's why any leauge as small as ours...with that many teams in one area means none of them will sucseed...there's not enough resources to go around, it's geared for failure. 2 Clubs. 2 areas. North and south. All fans All over he city coverd. Far more resources going into fasr less teams = far more quality.

"Mr Gray said the opportunity existed to radically reform the eircom League and create a successful vibrant senior game, integrated with the rest of football in Ireland. “The vision of a financially viable, sustainable, successful and marketable League can only occur if the reforms are radical – tinkering around with the League will lead it nowhere”, Mr Gray said."

Change the name of the league, but still have the same clubs, with the same players, apart from a couple less teams, the same structure....that's tinkering....what i'm talking about is very radical...but if they do it, it will work, and we'll have a sustainable, decent league, with prospects of sucsess.

Recommendation made by Genises: The league should be re-branded and re-launched as part of a fully revised marketing strategy.

"Dublin clubs will be encouraged to consider ground-sharing if they are to attract significant public funds for investment."

Which they probab;y wont be able to come to a satisfactory agreement with to much politics in the leauge blocking it's development, and will probably lose a couple of million in oublic funding...Or instead of splting "significant public funds" on 5 clubs, and then making them all group together and share the results...it makes much more sense to use it to develop two clubs...the results will be far greater, and far more focused...lets look at quality not quantity.

If you just don't think with your heart for two seconds, and think with your head..you must agree with me!

Look at GAA All Ireland regionalised structure. When only the best players are on show, and when every fan in the country has their own team, and everyone in areas are getting behind the same team, there's a massive buzz factor. The amount of attention it generates, for All Ireland final they could sell 250,000 tickets if they could only fit them all in....and that's in two seperate sports. The Dublin team is so big, and has such massive support base they considerd splitting it into a North South divide, becasue even if you split their fan base in half, they would still sell out croke park every time they played! Im sure if you were to ask every dub suporter coming out of croke park if they like "soccer", 99% would say they do and follow the national team etc. So why wouldn't they support a team in a regionalised leauge simular to GAA if it was "soccer" being played instead of football?

Now look at the GAA club set-up...When it's broken up into several teams in a general area, and everybody is supporting different teams who are from a small geographic area, and the quality is diluted with mediocre players....They can barely get 10,000 in the gate for the leaugr finals.

In my view, this report, on the whole, is another cop-out, I think Genesis were beating about the Bush regarding regionaliseation, particuarly in Dublin, for fear of it being fully rejected, but that's irrelivant, they should suggest pecifically what will work, and it's up to the FAI & EL to decide what to do...just more words and more meaningless changes will be made....another oppertunity lost, and the begining of the end for LOI if it needed it...not nearly radical enough, and countless amounts of money will be waisted by being spread far to thin and being mismanaged...and most importantly, they have still failed to identify a product to sell. What's going to be different to the punter about this leauge than the current EL?

Töpher · 28-09-2005 12:56PM

Its clear radical changes are needed, but the closest any fan will get to merging clubs is ground sharing. Noone will want to merge their club with another. If anything, having fewer clubs in Dublin will lead to more of "there's nowhere near me" arguments.

Genghis' idea is quite well structured, but unfortunately rather unfeesable. I for one couldn't afford trips to Scotland every second week

And also, without a national league we have no national team. This would also need to be changed by FIFA etc.

The Rooster · 28-09-2005 04:15PM

Einst&#252 wrote: »

The Eircom League needs to attract fans yes. But its hard when people have their preconceived notions of how it will be terrible, how do you change their minds? They're always going to retort with "its crap", well excuse me for asking, but if you've never been how would you know?

I'd have much more respect for people who write it off if they'd actually tried a game or two and experienced the atmosphere and watched the footballing displays. And then if they don't like it fine, at least they made the effort and have a leg they can stand on in a constructive discussion. They'd at least have an real opinion to base their points on, rather than preconceived notions that they got into their heads. Sure, didn't Hitler have this preconceived notion that all Jews were evil?

As I said on another thread, its akin to a virgin saying they don't like having sex!

I never said anything about the quality of the Eircom League, but I suppose it is fair to see that the perception among the non believers is that its crap football, played in crap stadiums, in front of small crowds. If thats not true then the Eircom League and everyone associated with it have done a poor job in marketing it. I dont go because its never been sold to me, and there are clearly thousands like me. A few fans saying "its great, I swear" isnt going to persuade thousands of extra people to support it. There's probably very many contributors to this board who havent even opened this thread because its Eircom League related!

I believe something radical would be needed to attract thousands more fans. But as has been said "radical" would be resisted by most. Although Shels moving to Fingal would certainly mean I and may more from the area would chance a game or two to see what its like.

Töpher · 28-09-2005 04:25PM

The Rooster wrote:

A few fans saying "its great, I swear" isnt going to persuade thousands of extra people to support it.

But unfortunately on the other end of the scale, when someone says "Ah thats bollox" everyone takes it for granted and starts the dissing and automatically will never set foot in a ground.

gimmick · 28-09-2005 04:40PM

The Rooster wrote:

If thats not true then the Eircom League and everyone associated with it have done a poor job in marketing it.

True.

I dont go because its never been sold to me, and there are clearly thousands like me. A few fans saying "its great, I swear" isnt going to persuade thousands of extra people to support it.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Being realistic, no eL fan reckons he can make thousands go, but I know that at work, Ive started 2 people going, who in turn have got another 3-4 people going to Cork City matches on a regular basis. And guess what, they now really enjoy something they turned their noses up at 12 months ago!?!

And this is how Id sell it

Me in the Beauts and Teds thread wrote:

For me, what makes football worth watching is quite simple - you cannot replace the feeling of seeing your team win in front of you, after seeing the effort of all the players. Meeting them after the game and congratulating them is a nice feeling. The tension inside the ground in a close top of the table clash, the camaraderie that this brings about with your fellow fans. The feeling of release when the ref blows his final whistle, the relief, the euphoria. Even in the smaller games, the feeling is the same. Even the crushing lows one feels after losing are part and parcel of it all.

There's probably very many contributors to this board who havent even opened this thread because its Eircom League related!

:rolleyes: Thats just stupid.

I believe something radical would be needed to attract thousands more fans. But as has been said "radical" would be resisted by most.

See your first paragraph, and therein lies the answer, a bit of marketing, nuch like the GAA do with their "ask not......" campaign etc. Its worked to a certain degree in Cork, and CCFC are becoming ever more popular. Its getting to the stage where there are more kids wearing City shirts now, than Man U and Celtic etc etc etc.

[Jackass] · 29-09-2005 03:39PM

Unfortunatly, the current clubs, and current set-up is tarnashied in the minds of most Irish people, for the reasons of the dreadfull standards that exited for years. Despite the inprovements in quality on the pitch, it would be very difficult for the current teams and set-up to shake off the tarnished reputation..which is why a remarkted regional league would be a fresh slate and would generate far more hype.

I also doubt there's more kids wearing Cork City jerseys in Cork than kids wearing UTD or Celtic jerseys, but cork is the most sucsesfull, best supported, best organised, and best performing team in the league. Luckily none of this would change in a regional set-up, and all that hard-work etc. would be preserved.

Regionalisation is mainly to make Dublin set-up more compact, and incorporating the entire city, and expanding the coverage of rural teams.

Eircom League - Genesis III

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