FIFPro World XI

Drag00n79 · 11-08-2005 12:40PM

PHB wrote:

Of course they are going to dictate the game, they have an extra 8 years of experience. Wait 8 years, Gerrard will be very similar to Keane/Makelele right now

I'm just reading this thread for the first time since yesterday and PHB has said exactly what I would have. I have no problem in saying that Keano at his peak was a better player than Gerrard is now, but Gerrard has time on his side. Put Keano back to when he was 25 and we still had not seen the best of him. Likewise the best is yet to be seen of Gerrard over the next five years. My tuppence worth!

PHB · 11-08-2005 12:51PM

Keane is a DMC, but not by choice.
The reason he has fallen back to this position is because he doesn't have the legs for MC anymore.
Gerrard is an MC. He doesn't have the passing ability of an AMC like Ronaldinho or Scholes, but he has the pure determination, the ability to take, the driving runs, etc.
just like Keane used to have.
In 8 years time when Gerrards legs are gona, he will be just like Makelele and Keane are now

Davei141 · 11-08-2005 12:52PM

Where is Gerrard when he is playing in the middle against Keane, Viera (sp?) and Makelele ?

Your basing that on all last years performances, theres been plenty of times where hes outplayed keane and vieira. At anfield this year gerrard tore arsenal apart. Vs chelsea at anfield we totally out played chelsea. Vs united both times this year liverpool were crap, thats right, the whole team. It could also be argued that makelele, keane and vieira (before he left) were in better teams. As i said before when keane doesnt dictate the game or has a rubbish game every bit of blame is directed towards anyone else.

I would much rather Gerrard was a carbon copy of Keane than what he does now.

Oh this is good, you really want to count all the goals hes scored and made then wish he played like a 'carbon copy' keane.

Whoop dee doo, Gerrard had a big part to play in the goals that beat a mediocre team,

He cant win can he?

You were the one who disputed the fact that Gerrard is not in Keanes league. I pointed out the differences.

I disputed it because somebody said hes out of keanes league...As if to indicate hes well better than gerrard, if theyre different why are they being compared? Keane is great at what he does and gerrard is great at what he does, but hes not a patch right?

Gerrard wastes a lot of possetion needlessly, whereas Keane doesnt, that alone makle him much more valuable

He doesnt do those 50 yard passes nearly as much and if you were watching him over the last year you would know that. Keane doesnt waste possesion, he doesnt create anything with it either, (i know the others do the creating) but you can criticise gerrard when gerrard possesion results in goals. Yes they arent the same players so why are people mentioned leagues and other bull****? Why are they saying hes 'not a patch' on a player who is very good at what he does? When the player in question is one of the best at what he does?

Guy:Incognito · 11-08-2005 01:11PM

Davei141 wrote:

Your basing that on all last years performances, theres been plenty of times where hes outplayed keane and vieira. At anfield this year gerrard tore arsenal apart.

He tore them apart yes, but not from midfield, he was playing as a second striker in that game.

The fact of it is Gerrard is athis best when breaking past the strikers or playing in behind them. He hasnt got the defensive ability to play the holding role. The same can be said of Lampard. It doesnt make them bad players, they just arent defensive players which is why you need a holding player like Alonso/ Hamann at Liverpool or Makalele at Chelsea. It is also blatently obvious when you watch England with SGE idiocy in persisting with Gerrard/Lampard midfield.

Theres no defensive players in Englands midfield and decent teams stream through them like their not there. Any weaknesses with England CB pairing and they will get mauled. Beckham/Lampard/Gerrard and a left winger is not a midfield to win competitions with. Individually they are very good players but together the defense is left horribley exposed.

Draupnir · 11-08-2005 01:14PM

This thread reminds me of the old Soccer forum. Whats the point in this discussion since Dave is quite obviously unwilling to accept any kind of point against Steven Gerrard?

ziggy · 11-08-2005 01:19PM

This post has been deleted.

[Jackass] · 11-08-2005 01:52PM

Davei141 wrote:

What a load of crap. Wayne rooney is an amazing player, he was hyped so much and has lived up to that, what more can you ask for. You can judge hes not one of greatest of all time and hes 18, good job, they said he could be the new pele not that he WAS the new pele.

No, i believe he was touted, from a lot of the media as the new pele, i also acknowledged he's a superb player, but i was making the point of ridiculos hype surrounding English players, comparing him to the greatest player to ever kick a football in the history of the game is laughable.
He's 18, so he can't be judged yet in peles standards?

Pele, aged 17, carrying a knee injury, made his world cup debut in '56, and stunned the tournament, also scored six goals, including 2 in the final for brazils first ever world cup win. Wayne who?

Gerrard not in the same league as keane? You having a laugh or what? and you dare say you aint got green tinted glasses. you choose a game where liverpool played crap vs united and base it on that. Im not saying gerrard is better or worse, but a rediculous statement like that is bull.

I do dare say i don't have green tinted glasses

Liverpool played crap because Keane burried gerrard alive, and without him they can't fuction. (RE: firsat half Vs Second half CL final).

The english players are good, very good. you can dislike them because of the hype all you want, but the fact remains they have a great set of players.

I don't dislike them at all, and i know they have great players...but you keep missing my point, i am talking about the list of world best players here, and how English players are completely over hyped by the media both in the UK and on the continent, so people think they're actually better than they are. (C'mon...look at some of the names on there!!) I'm also saying world class Irish players such as Keane, Duff and Given could never be considerd for those kind of prizes because of their unfashionable footballing nationality, regardless of dominationg the same leauge as the English lads, and regardless of skill.

I'm also very suprised how you can say Green tinted glasses, more than one player can be world class (eg Given and Cech), and Keane being one of the best players on the planet in his prime is a no-brainer..i would consider that a undisputeable fact. So why can't these players win any awards on the international stage?

Your basing that on all last years performances, theres been plenty of times where hes outplayed keane and vieira. At anfield this year gerrard tore arsenal apart. Vs chelsea at anfield we totally out played chelsea. Vs united both times this year liverpool were crap, thats right, the whole team.

We? perhaps you just have red tinted glasses?

Also see my point above as to why Liverpool can't function against united.....his name is Roy Keane.

(i would also just like to point out i don't support any premiership team in particular...i just follow the leauge in general, so it's not a UTD are better than liverpool, or Chelsea this, Arsenal that. thing...i just think Irish players reputations are completely played down mostly by ourselves, and then that carrys over to the UK and so on, where as England big themselves up so much, their players are considerd worldclass, even though a lot of them are just good or mediocre)

Seaneh · 11-08-2005 03:27PM

DubGuy wrote:

Well what im saying is that Given has been the best g'keeper in supposedly the best leauge in the world for about 4 years running...and now that cech is in the leauge there is a another world class keeper, but i wouldn't consider him by any margin better than Given...both on a par, but not better.

Obviously everyone can debate who they think is the best player in the world in any given season, for me Keane was unparaleld that season, you may say the same about Redondo, but my point is no matter how good Keane plays, by nationality, he could never have won the award....I don't know why you are both saying green tinted glasses, because i'm not...infact that's the very thing im talking about...if we call an Irish player world class its "green tinted glasses" how could an Irish player be world class!".... that's the my whole point Keane, Duff, Given are (were?) world class!
One of the most sucsessfull managers in club football history called Roy Keane the best player he's ever had...Duff will get his game ahead of the likes of Joe Cole who is on the list of the best players in the world week in week out, there's no comparrison!
Given is a top class goalkeeper no matter what anyone says, and im sure most people would agree the best keeper in premier leauge for years, certainly before cech.

I havn't got green tinted glasses, you've got white tinted glasses, you watch sky sports premier leauge action, you catch England internationals on the BBC, you here Sven GEs comments, and read the papers and believe all the hype, and quite honestly, crap about how good the English players actuallyare. You probably think David Beckham is one of the greatest players in the world, and has a reputation to match his skill...that Wayne Rooney is the new Pele, as was being said all over England in his first season with Everton (Don't get me wrong, he's a superb player, but not one of the greatest off all time) Or that Stephen Gerrard is even in the same leauge as Roy Keane (RE: Liverpool Vs United last season).....

I suppose if we dont even acknowledge our own players, how can we expect the rest of the world to? :rolleyes:

Your wrong, I don't watch sky at all, and yes ireland do have a few world class players and have had in the past.
Brady, McGrath, Keane, Given and duff spring to mind for starters, and yes keane was world class (and still VERY good) but I honestly beilve Redondo was peerless in the rold of holding midefilder and it's no coincidence that REal Madrids collapse as a super power in european football happened immideatly after he left for Milan, he was a total footballs, he had the ability to run for 90 minutes while throwing in last ditched tackles and he also had the vision to make passes other players couldn't, imagine Rino Gattuaso with Denis Bergkamps Footballing brain and you have some idea of how Redondo played for both club and country.

I Despise Beckham and have NEVER rated him as anything more than a clothes horse who is good from bead balls, thats it, in open play he is muck.
Infact I hink that about a lot of players, half of the EPL are over rated (Drogba, Andy Johnson last year, Beattie and 60 odd otehr players too).

I rearly watch the spanish league, I'd rather watch championship football tbh, infact scrap that i'd travle to kildare to watch athlone town away first.

I don't think rooney will be world class to be honest, I don't think his peak is much above his current ability and as for gerrard he is only liverpools 3rd best player behing caragher and alonso.

Stop making presumptions about my oppinions, I don't read tabloids I watch football and decide on that basis.

[Jackass] · 11-08-2005 03:50PM

Seaneh wrote:

Stop making presumptions about my oppinions, I don't read tabloids I watch football and decide on that basis.

Fair enough...sorry. I was kind of making a general point, i didn't mean to direct it at you personally.

Seaneh · 11-08-2005 03:52PM

it's ok... I'll forgive you

Jivin Turkey · 11-08-2005 03:54PM

Seaneh wrote:

I Despise Beckham and have NEVER rated him as anything more than a clothes horse who is good from bead balls, thats it, in open play he is muck. Infact I hink that about a lot of players, half of the EPL are over rated (Drogba, Andy Johnson last year, Beattie and 60 odd otehr players too).

Beckham is a class player, he can whip in as many crosses from open play as he can from dead balls. I also seem to remember him belting in a few long rangers from open play too. He was also never shy of work.

Drogba, Andy Johnsen, and James Beattie dont make up half the EPL, and Id hardly call any of them "overrated". Drogba I would go with unproven. Johnsen is deemed a good player, but people are hardly wetting their pants over him, hence no firm offers to prise him away from Palace. Beattie? I dont remember anybody ever even mentioned him yet alone "rated" him.

Seaneh wrote:

I rearly watch the spanish league, I'd rather watch championship football tbh, infact scrap that i'd travle to kildare to watch athlone town away first.

Marvellous comment from such an obvious football connoisseur.

Seaneh wrote:

I don't think rooney will be world class to be honest, I don't think his peak is much above his current ability

You are right, Rooney "will not be world class". He is already world class. Performances over the last two years have demonstrated that. In the EC and in the PL/CL last year.

To say that a 19 year old will not peak "much above his current ability" is nothing short of idiotic. Even if he somehow didnt improve as a player physically/techincally, he will mature as a man and learn to make better decisions in his conduct on and off the pitch.

As for the whole Gerrard/Keane thing, for people that dont think that Gerrard is "even in the same league" as Keane, open your eyes. Gerrard is almost ten years younger than Keane, and has achieved far more as an individual and in a team sense than Keane had at that age.

Now before people get their knickers in a twist that a bad word was said about Roy Keane, Im not claiming Gerrard is/was/will be better, but that there is little between them. SG is a similar enough style of player to RK (in his day), a little more flash and creative, less defensive and disciplined. Keane might have never have given the ball away, but he never hit double figures in assists and goals year in, year out. They are all trade offs.

Gerrard has had off-field problems for 18 months at this stage. Now that he is settled I would really like to re-address this issue in a year. There will be a different SG this year, demonstrated by an incredible start to the season by him so far.

Seaneh · 11-08-2005 04:07PM

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Beckham is a class player, he can whip in as many crosses from open play as he can from dead balls. I also seem to remember him belting in a few long rangers from open play too. He was also never shy of work.

Drogba, Andy Johnsen, and James Beattie dont make up half the EPL, and Id hardly call any of them "overrated". Drogba I would go with unproven. Johnsen is deemed a good player, but people are hardly wetting their pants over him, hence no firm offers to prise him away from Palace. Beattie? I dont remember anybody ever even mentioned him yet alone "rated" him.

Marvellous comment from such an obvious football connoisseur.

You are right, Rooney "will not be world class". He is already world class. Performances over the last two years have demonstrated that. In the EC and in the PL/CL last year.

To say that a 19 year old will not peak "much above his current ability" is nothing short of idiotic. Even if he somehow didnt improve as a player physically/techincally, he will mature as a man and learn to make better decisions in his conduct on and off the pitch.

As for the whole Gerrard/Keane thing, for people that dont think that Gerrard is "even in the same league" as Keane, open your eyes. Gerrard is almost ten years younger than Keane, and has achieved far more as an individual and in a team sense than Keane had at that age.

Now before people get their knickers in a twist that a bad word was said about Roy Keane, Im not claiming Gerrard is/was/will be better, but that there is little between them. SG is a similar enough style of player to RK (in his day), a little more flash and creative, less defensive and disciplined. Keane might have never have given the ball away, but he never hit double figures in assists and goals year in, year out. They are all trade offs.

Gerrard has had off-field problems for 18 months at this stage. Now that he is settled I would really like to re-address this issue in a year. There will be a different SG this year, demonstrated by an incredible start to the season by him so far.

I never said that johnson drogba and beattie make up half of the epl they were just examples.

But if you want me to expand then I will.

Rio Ferdinand is highly over rated, englands starting two should be carra and terry by merrit and ability, fact.
Rooney has nowhere near justified the hype around him! he hasn't produced week in week out and in major games over the last two years he has showed flashes, he is also lethargic and ill tempered.
Robert Greene was hailed as a great keeper by a lot of papers/pundits last season for norwich but that is laughable when you look at thier goals against and the amount of mistakes he made.
Andy johnsson WAS praised alot last year, engilsh papers and tv personalitis calling for an international call up based on one season of good form, yet another kevin phillips to be honest.

The Premier League hasn't got enough world class players to be the best league in the world (which is what is commonly claimed by english and irish people, presenters and tabloids) it is still a long way short of Spain and italy as far as techincal ability throughout is concerned.

As for my comment about the spanish league, I simply have no intrest in watching celta vigo and mallorca run around like headless chickens knocking 3 goals each in while the defenders look like lost children. outside of the top 7 cubs there isn't a whole lot to watch and I'd rather watch teams I know about because atleast then I can follow the pregress of young players who's carrears actually intrest me (glen Whelan, Paul Mcshane, Ghrame Stack to name but a few feture irish players).

And as for athone town, yes I would rather watch the team I supported my whole life regradless of current form than watch a super classico match, any day of the week, and it's not stupidity, it's not lack of taste in football it's called loyalty and local pride.

Jivin Turkey · 11-08-2005 04:57PM

Seaneh wrote:

I never said that johnson drogba and beattie make up half of the epl they were just examples.

But if you want me to expand then I will.

Rio Ferdinand is highly over rated, englands starting two should be carra and terry by merrit and ability, fact.
Rooney has nowhere near justified the hype around him! he hasn't produced week in week out and in major games over the last two years he has showed flashes, he is also lethargic and ill tempered.
Robert Greene was hailed as a great keeper by a lot of papers/pundits last season for norwich but that is laughable when you look at thier goals against and the amount of mistakes he made.
Andy johnsson WAS praised alot last year, engilsh papers and tv personalitis calling for an international call up based on one season of good form, yet another kevin phillips to be honest.

Most of these players are rated in England, not outside. Its not like anyone here is claiming that some of these are the best in the world. I wouldnt call it "overrated". They are rated at a reasonale level in terms of what they have achieved in football. What do you mean by "overrated"?

People like Johnsen are rated highly in England on the back of TWO great seasons with an unfashionable club. What more do you want from a player who is 23/24? Players like Philips deserve to be "rated", he has got goals at every club hes played for.

Seaneh wrote:

The Premier League hasn't got enough world class players to be the best league in the world (which is what is commonly claimed by english and irish people, presenters and tabloids) it is still a long way short of Spain and italy as far as techincal ability throughout is concerned.

Most people claim that it is in the top three, which it clearly is based on the performances of their sides in Europe. There is as many world class players in it than in the other "big" leagues. There is no doubt that some players may lack the technical ability in comparison to foreign leagues, but football is about a lot more than techinque.

The only people I ever really see terming it "the best in the world" are Sky, who obviously are going to talk up their product, and kids.

Seaneh wrote:

As for my comment about the spanish league, I simply have no intrest in watching celta vigo and mallorca run around like headless chickens knocking 3 goals each in while the defenders look like lost children. outside of the top 7 cubs there isn't a whole lot to watch and I'd rather watch teams I know about because atleast then I can follow the pregress of young players who's carrears actually intrest me (glen Whelan, Paul Mcshane, Ghrame Stack to name but a few feture irish players).

Apologies, I thought you were having a pop at the standard of the league. As in "it doesnt interest me because its crap".

Seaneh wrote:

And as for athone town, yes I would rather watch the team I supported my whole life regradless of current form than watch a super classico match, any day of the week, and it's not stupidity, it's not lack of taste in football it's called loyalty and local pride.

Again apologies, obviously one would prefer to watch their own side over another, whatever the league, I didnt know you followed Athlone, I thought you were using this a way to knock the Spanish league.

Davei141 · 11-08-2005 05:05PM

Stekelly wrote:

He tore them apart yes, but not from midfield, he was playing as a second striker in that game.

The fact of it is Gerrard is athis best when breaking past the strikers or playing in behind them. He hasnt got the defensive ability to play the holding role. The same can be said of Lampard. It doesnt make them bad players, they just arent defensive players which is why you need a holding player like Alonso/ Hamann at Liverpool or Makalele at Chelsea. It is also blatently obvious when you watch England with SGE idiocy in persisting with Gerrard/Lampard midfield.

Theres no defensive players in Englands midfield and decent teams stream through them like their not there. Any weaknesses with England CB pairing and they will get mauled. Beckham/Lampard/Gerrard and a left winger is not a midfield to win competitions with. Individually they are very good players but together the defense is left horribley exposed.

I dont disagree one bit, but when people go on about leagues and patches when theyre not even the same type player its just getting digs in at players.

Draupnir wrote:

This thread reminds me of the old Soccer forum. Whats the point in this discussion since Dave is quite obviously unwilling to accept any kind of point against Steven Gerrard?

Would you like to read over my posts again? And by the way i dont see anyone giving keane less than god status, so whats your point?

Jivin Turkey wrote:

As for the whole Gerrard/Keane thing, for people that dont think that Gerrard is "even in the same league" as Keane, open your eyes. Gerrard is almost ten years younger than Keane, and has achieved far more as an individual and in a team sense than Keane had at that age.

Now before people get their knickers in a twist that a bad word was said about Roy Keane, Im not claiming Gerrard is/was/will be better, but that there is little between them. SG is a similar enough style of player to RK (in his day), a little more flash and creative, less defensive and disciplined. Keane might have never have given the ball away, but he never hit double figures in assists and goals year in, year out. They are all trade offs.

Gerrard has had off-field problems for 18 months at this stage. Now that he is settled I would really like to re-address this issue in a year. There will be a different SG this year, demonstrated by an incredible start to the season by him so far.

Agree 110%.

dubguy wrote:

No, i believe he was touted, from a lot of the media as the new pele, i also acknowledged he's a superb player, but i was making the point of ridiculos hype surrounding English players, comparing him to the greatest player to ever kick a football in the history of the game is laughable.

Pele, aged 17, carrying a knee injury, made his world cup debut in '56, and stunned the tournament, also scored six goals, including 2 in the final for brazils first ever world cup win. Wayne who?

I guess you missed rooneys euro 2004, absolutely awesome before he got injured. 4 games and 4 goals, not to bad for his first tournament in comparison to the greatest footballer ever now is it?

I do dare say i don't have green tinted glasses Liverpool played crap because Keane burried gerrard alive, and without him they can't fuction. (RE: firsat half Vs Second half CL final).

When liverpool had a run of victories vs united did gerrard 'bury' keane? No he didnt, liverpool played well. When arsenal beat united does anyone ever say vieira buried keane? Did makelele bury him last year?

I don't dislike them at all, and i know they have great players...but you keep missing my point, i am talking about the list of world best players here, and how English players are completely over hyped by the media both in the UK and on the continent, so people think they're actually better than they are. (C'mon...look at some of the names on there!!) I'm also saying world class Irish players such as Keane, Duff and Given could never be considerd for those kind of prizes because of their unfashionable footballing nationality, regardless of dominationg the same leauge as the English lads, and regardless of skill.

Yeah they are over rated and over hyped, but still great players as youve pointed out, i agree. I dont think we should care if we are on a list as meaningless as that fifa list.

We? perhaps you just have red tinted glasses? Also see my point above as to why Liverpool can't function against united.....his name is Roy Keane.

I dont think you need any tints in your glasses to see how good gerrard is. As i said before, when liverpool had a run of victories against united was the reason united couldnt function gerrard? no it wasnt, the TEAM played great.

ziggy · 11-08-2005 05:45PM

This post has been deleted.

Big Ears · 11-08-2005 06:05PM

ziggy67 wrote:

IMO Man Utd play well when Scholes plays well, not Keane. *

using your little theory Man United would be a relegation side the last two years .

ziggy · 11-08-2005 06:58PM

This post has been deleted.

eirebhoy · 11-08-2005 08:26PM

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Beckham is a class player, he can whip in as many crosses from open play as he can from dead balls. I also seem to remember him belting in a few long rangers from open play too. He was also never shy of work.

Beckham is good but certainly doesn't deserve to be listed in the best 55 players in the world. Celtic's new signing, Nakamura, is just as good imo. Better free kick taker too according to Phillipe Troussier.

Jivin Turkey · 11-08-2005 09:01PM

eirebhoy wrote:

Beckham is good but certainly doesn't deserve to be listed in the best 55 players in the world. Celtic's new signing, Nakamura, is just as good imo. Better free kick taker too according to Phillipe Troussier.

Come on Eirebhoy, how many times have you seen Nakamura? As for free kicks, I usually take everything Phillipe Troussier says as gospel

particularly about a player that he has never coached. Beckham is definitely one of the best free-takers at the top level of European football today.

Beckham has been a complete match winner on the big stage more times than I care to remember. Im not saying hes the best in the world, but he is pure world class, as much as it might pain people to admit.

People seem to have a problem with him because of his image, if he looked like Luke Chadwick and had the build of Wayne Rooney Im sure every one would say he was amazing. He's a dislikable guy, I dont deny it, but there is no doubting the mans talent.

Slash/ED · 11-08-2005 09:06PM

Yes there is.

A very good player, no doubt, but not one of the worlds best.

Jivin Turkey · 11-08-2005 09:13PM

Slash/ED wrote:

Yes there is.

A very good player, no doubt, but not one of the worlds best.

A very good player that has close to 450 starts with two of the worlds biggest clubs of his generation.

Of course the fact that they play him has nothing to do with them being able to afford any player in the world to play that position for their team, its just to sell jerseys in Asia.

eirebhoy · 11-08-2005 09:17PM

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Come on Eirebhoy, how many times have you seen Nakamura?

Enough to know that he can pass just as good as Beckham, take freekicks just as good as Beckham and all Beckham's best attributes, Nakamura is just as good at. Plus Nakamura has the skill to beat players and the football brain to pull off some superb things. I didn't know who he was at the time but I seen all of Japan's matches in the confederations cup and they are a world class team imo. He's their best player. BTW, Troussier used to manage Japan.

``If you had a group of five players who were the best in the world at taking free-kicks then Shunsuke (Nakamura) would be up in there.

``Of course Beckham would be in there as well but if there was a challenge between those two then Nakamura would win it.

``He's the best I've seen in that department and I think he will score as many as 10 goals or maybe more from free-kicks every year.

``You could actually compare his allround game to Beckham in that he's not really a physical player or blessed with tremendous pace but can make an impact on the game using his passing.

``Shunsuke has the best left foot I've ever seen in my career so that's where I think he should be played.

``For Japan I've seen him play behind the two strikers but that's not where he's most effective and my advice to Celtic would be not to play him there.

``He has a very skillful left foot and is able to make a good pass to start attacking moves.

``Maybe he's not the quickest but he doesn't lose the ball and can play short passes, long passes, and take free-kicks and corners.

``If I was to compare him with anyone it would have to be Jerome Rothen, the French international who used to play with Monaco and is now with PSG.''

If Nakamura consistently plays like he did whenever I've seen him I can guarantee you I wouldn't swap him for Beckham. Beckham is nowhere near being in a World XI.

Here's Nakamura's debut video which doesn't do him justice but anyway:
http://community.gyo6.net/prg/bbs/data/C_bbs_club/Nakamura-good.wmv

Maybe the bias has f*cked me up but I'm not consciously trying to mislead you into saying Nakamura is just as good as Beckham. I honestly believe he is.

Jivin Turkey · 11-08-2005 09:31PM

eirebhoy wrote:

Enough to know that he can pass just as good as Beckham, take freekicks just as good as Beckham and all Beckham's best attributes, Nakamura is just as good at. Plus Nakamura has the skill to beat players and the football brain to pull off some superb things. I didn't know who he was at the time but I seen all of Japan's matches in the confederations cup and they are a world class team imo. He's their best player.

So what are we talking here, eight or nine matches? Try eight or nine years for Beckham. When Ive seen Nakamura do as Beckham has done for half the period that DB has done it Ill take notice.

If Nakamura was that good. He wouldnt be getting the big move at the peak of his career to Celtic, he would be going higher, particularly after the profile of Japanese football was raised so highly after the WC, and particularly when he has respected coaches like Troussier backing him up.

eirebhoy wrote:

BTW, Troussier used to manage Japan.

I know, my point was Troussier never managed Beckham.

eirebhoy wrote:

If I was to compare him with anyone it would have to be Jerome Rothen, the French international who used to play with Monaco and is now with PSG.''[/I]

A glowing comparison to a world renouned player. If it didnt mention what club hes with now Id say a lot of people wouldnt even know.

eirebhoy wrote:

If Nakamura consistantly plays like he did whenever I've seen him I can guarantee you I wouldn't swap him for Beckham. Beckham is nowhere near being in a World XI.

If he plays as consistently over a ten year period I would too.

Slash/ED · 11-08-2005 09:33PM

Jivin Turkey wrote:

A glowing comparison to a world renouned player. If it didnt mention what club hes with now Id say a lot of people wouldnt even know.

An inditement on those people rather than the player. He was probably the best player in Monacos champions league final team, superb left foot, great delivery.

Jivin Turkey · 11-08-2005 09:39PM

Slash/ED wrote:

An inditement on those people rather than the player. He was probably the best player in Monacos champions league final team, superb left foot, great delivery.

Well not really. I thought he looked smashing that year, but what else has he achieved?

7 caps? A big money move that hasnt really worked out for him?

Whether he was the best player for Monaco in the final or not, he certainly wasnt their most influential player on the way. A key member yes, but not the most important. One season wonder springs to mind.

Slash/ED · 11-08-2005 09:43PM

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Well not really. I thought he looked smashing that year, but what else has he achieved?

7 caps? A big money move that hasnt really worked out for him?

Whether he was the best player for Monaco in the final or not, he certainly wasnt their most influential player on the way. A key member yes, but not the most important. One season wonder springs to mind.

Maybe, my point however was if anyone hasn't heard of him then it's because they obviously don't follow football on the continent very closely not because he's crap.

Seaneh · 11-08-2005 09:49PM

Rotten is a class act, and hasn't failed at all with PSG, if anything he was thier shinning light this year, they have been under proforming for years and he is the only player on thier current squad who looks like changing that.

As for beckham if you serioucly think he is a world calss player then you need to cop the **** on and stop reading the sun or whatever trape your reading.
He is a BAD all around player and to fit him into your team you have to accomidate him by reshaping your midfeild, which is always a bad sign, his defensive ability is apauling for someing claiming he is a centre mid and doesnt like playing right wing (where Gary Neville did all his donkey work for man utd making him look like he actually worked off the ball)

Concering Nakamura , he is a better player than beckham, it's simply.
He has many ailities beckham doesn't and everything beckham has.
He can beat players, beckham cant.
He has quick feet, beckham needs 3-5 yards to pass or cross.
He has a better passing range than beckham.
He plays the ball into space as well as anyone on the planet.
He has a better footballing brain than beckham allowing him to play amazingly accurate first-time passes in inches of space and equally impressive one-twos.
Beckham is always a step behind the game, ALWAYS.

He plays at Real becuase thats what thier chairman wants, simple as.

Jivin Turkey · 11-08-2005 09:51PM

Slash/ED wrote:

Maybe, my point however was if anyone hasn't heard of him then it's because they obviously don't follow football on the continent very closely not because he's crap.

I never said he was crap but I dont necessarily agree that not knowing what hes doing today is an indication that one "obviously don't follow football on the continent very closely". He had a good year and mad a move that didnt work out, sure he only played 19 games or something (he was injured for periods though). Im sure there are plenty of players that played that day that have moved into relative obscurity.

Slash/ED · 11-08-2005 10:08PM

He was consistently outstanding through their entire campaign, not just that day.

Spider_Baby! · 12-08-2005 12:39AM

So, what is everybodys choice for their own 11? From the 55 in the list given, that is, so no nakamura's or redondo's!!

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