so you've heard about these law and language courses...

Sisu · 02-06-2005 07:12PM #1

… and maybe you want to know a bit more.

Ask me!

I thought it might be useful to have people who know about courses offer to discuss them or answer queries from interested parties - and this is what I know about. Plus, I think a lot of people aren't quite sure on what's involved; it varies in the different universities. So here I am. Maybe other people will start threads about other courses.

Of course, it might have been better to think of this when you were all in CAO mode rather than Leaving Cert mode. Still, you can change your minds for another month, so maybe it’s not entirely useless.

So, anyone interested?

claires friend · 02-06-2005 07:14PM

Sisu wrote:

… and maybe you want to know a bit more.

Ask me!

I thought it might be useful to have people who know about courses offer to discuss them or answer queries from interested parties - and this is what I know about. Plus, I think a lot of people aren't quite sure on what's involved; it varies in the different universities. So here I am. Maybe other people will start threads about other courses.

Of course, it might have been better to think of this when you were all in CAO mode rather than Leaving Cert mode. Still, you can change your minds for another month, so maybe it’s not entirely useless.

So, anyone interested?

You registered just to post that?

02-06-2005 07:15PM

claire's friend wrote:

You registered just to post that?

WTF is my name doing in your sig? I don't remember leaving it there?

Also, he/she clearly registered nearly a year ago.

claires friend · 02-06-2005 07:17PM

Deleted User wrote:

WTF is up with my name in your sig?

Oh **** thats hillarious, I cant believe there is someone here called Aristotle, I was referring to This Guy

02-06-2005 07:18PM

I think I know him. Is he from the Tallaght area?

Sisu · 02-06-2005 07:18PM

I registered in September. Yes, this is the first time I've bothered posting. I do think it would be useful if lots of people who have experience of university courses offered to share what they know about it. This is what I know about, which might only interest a few people, but maybe someone would find it useful.

Poz3D · 02-06-2005 08:08PM

I've a few questions about law and a language. It'd be great if you could answer them!

1) Do you find the work load of the language difficult? Is it difficult to keep up with the level required (I've heard you have to write essays on law in German/French)?
2) Does doing a language affect your law degree much? Do you miss out on a lot of law topics? I've heard that with some law+language degrees you don't cover enough topics to be able to sit King's Inn exams.
3) Do you enjoy it?

Any info you have would be greatly appreciated!

BraveheartGal · 02-06-2005 08:36PM

OMG looks like the big guy really is takin care of me

ok so i was gonna do law and european studies in ul but i was like no
cos its supposedly an impossibly hard course,studyin everynight
id have to do an entrance exam if i wanted to be a solicitor or barristor which i might not even get into
what cld jus a law degree let me do?
is it that hard?
how long before youre qualified as a solicitor/barrister?
what other jobs are available?
is an apprentice's hours and money really as crap as its supposed to be (and really hard to get)
ooh and what is the course like?interestin

and any other info would resultin in my undyin love for you

the smiley one · 02-06-2005 08:42PM

Sisu wrote:

… and maybe you want to know a bit more.

Ask me!

I thought it might be useful to have people who know about courses offer to discuss them or answer queries from interested parties - and this is what I know about. Plus, I think a lot of people aren't quite sure on what's involved; it varies in the different universities. So here I am. Maybe other people will start threads about other courses.

Of course, it might have been better to think of this when you were all in CAO mode rather than Leaving Cert mode. Still, you can change your minds for another month, so maybe it’s not entirely useless.

So, anyone interested?

Yes yes I'm interested - pick me teacher!!! well.......*ahem*......yeah so I posted on the trinners board yonks ago and there were a few doing law but none doing law and a language....I've kinda decided to go for pure law because
a) don't think I will ever want to live in Geramny
b) not really looking forward to learning about law...........through German :eek:
c) there are languages courses that you can do outside of your course to learn the language...so I was thinking of doing one of those

However.....on the plus side
a) small, more intimate course
b) fluency in German ! yay!
c) more opportunities to work outside of Irealnd( maybe wiht the EU?)

Is the last one true?
Also how enjoyable is the course and why did you pick it over pure law and why would you advise anyone else to pick it over pure law?

ok, that's a lot of questions to get through.....so I'll leave you to it....

Shyster · 02-06-2005 08:57PM

wahooooooo my prayers have also been answered!!
Ive Law and french down as no.1 but points are high so the law and european studies course in ul looks like the more obvious option for me too, so basically is it a lot of work with a language??
is the language worth the extra year??

Sisu · 02-06-2005 09:04PM

Hi Poz3D,

First thing I'm going to say is that the courses fall into two main categories - in UCD and TCD you do French or German law, not what you might expect in a language degree (eg literature), whereas in UCC, the French component is like that. So my answers are mainly going to apply to the UCD/TCD model, unless I say otherwise.

You really need to check out which of the two categories any course you're looking at falls into - its name won't tell you that.

Poz3D wrote:

1) Do you find the work load of the language difficult? Is it difficult to keep up with the level required (I've heard you have to write essays on law in German/French)?

Yes, the workload is quite big, but not unmanageable, and you're writing about law in a foreign language from the start. Some people find it a bit intimidating, but it's not really that difficult. So no, it's not difficult to keep up, but it will take work.

Poz3D wrote:

2) Does doing a language affect your law degree much? Do you miss out on a lot of law topics? I've heard that with some law+language degrees you don't cover enough topics to be able to sit King's Inn exams.

You get to do fewer Irish law subjects, but then, you spend a year getting to do other subjects in the foreign university that might have a broader range than what's on offer in Irish law schools - things like international relations, for example - so it's more a question of doing something different than missing out.

You are also right that it has become more difficult to meet the changing entry requirements for the King's Inns. However, it is not impossible. If you take EU and Jurisprudence abroad, the Inns will almost certainly recognise them. You should also bear in mind that the situation about professional education is reasonably likely to have changed in four years' time. The Competition Authority's recent report recommended abolishing the Inns' monopoly on the education of barristers, and if the government acts on this, there are a number of institutions ready to start offering courses. So I would not be overly influenced at this stage by the King's Inns' current entry requirements.

Anyway, many people who do a law and language course do other things afterwards, like working for international organisations or become solicitors.

Poz3D wrote:

3) Do you enjoy it?

Yes. A lot of people do. Some people find they don't, and they tend to transfer to law.

Personally, I like the fact that you're not doing law all the time. Everyone is different, with different interests and preferences, and a lot of people find that they enjoy bits of it they didn't expect to and might not enjoy the bit they did so much. For example, I really wanted to do French, but then I discovered I like law. I also like the small classes - there are lots of discussions and it's reasonably relaxed.

Only Human · 02-06-2005 09:04PM

Sisu wrote:

… and maybe you want to know a bit more.

Ask me!

I thought it might be useful to have people who know about courses offer to discuss them or answer queries from interested parties - and this is what I know about. Plus, I think a lot of people aren't quite sure on what's involved; it varies in the different universities. So here I am. Maybe other people will start threads about other courses.

Of course, it might have been better to think of this when you were all in CAO mode rather than Leaving Cert mode. Still, you can change your minds for another month, so maybe it’s not entirely useless.

So, anyone interested?

How many points?

Poz3D · 02-06-2005 09:15PM

Thanks very much for your detailed response. Law and a language does sound interesting. I'm planning on doing Law and German in Trinity (if everything goes well

), so it would fall into the category you talked about. I never realised the degree could have an international relations spin to it. I just assumed it had German tacked onto the end, without an actual focus on German law.

Sisu · 02-06-2005 09:26PM

Hi BraveheartGal,

BraveheartGal wrote:

ok so i was gonna do law and european studies in ul but i was like no
cos its supposedly an impossibly hard course,studyin everynight

I'd say be careful about basing your decision on what one or two people say. If you want to do it enough, and it sounds very interesting, then only you can decide if it's worth the work.

BraveheartGal wrote:

id have to do an entrance exam if i wanted to be a solicitor or barristor which i might not even get into

That's right, you do have to do entrance exams, but that doesn't stop any law graduate I've ever heard of - they're exams in stuff you've already passed in college.

BraveheartGal wrote:

what cld jus a law degree let me do?

Pretty much anything; business or whatever. The course in UL sounds like it would be very good for international jobs, maybe with the EU or something like that. If you don't want to use a law degree to become a lawyer, just think of it as an arts degree and do it if it interests you.

BraveheartGal wrote:

is it that hard?

I guess it is reasonably hard - maybe the workload is a bit more than other law degrees, but again, it's not unmanageable, and I wouldn't be put off if it was what I wanted to do. You have to do the work, but you can get good grades. For example, if you're good at languages, you can do well in that part of your course without a huge amount of effort.

BraveheartGal wrote:

how long before youre qualified as a solicitor/barrister?

For solicitors, you train in Blackhall Place - see www.lawsociety.ie. First you do the entrance exams, FE-1s, which you can either take all together the Autumn after graduation or spread out over a year. Then you do an apprenticeship of about three years, but depending on how big the firm you get it with is, you are being paid quite well during this time.

For barristers, the training is currently given by the King's Inns, but this may be changed in the next few years. For the Inns, you also sit an entrance exam the Autumn after your finals. Then you do a one-year, full time course. Then you "devil", which is like an unpaid apprenticeship for a barrister, which you can do for either one or two years to get experience. Then you can set up on your own.

BraveheartGal wrote:

what other jobs are available?

All sorts. People go to work for the diplomatic service, or banks, or insurance firms, or the media, or businesses...

BraveheartGal wrote:

is an apprentice's hours and money really as crap as its supposed to be (and really hard to get)

It depends on the firm that hires you. If it's small, you'll get great all-round experience, but they might not be able to afford to pay you very much. With the big Dublin firms, which do mostly commercial law, the pay is very good. It is very competitive to get into these - they come round interviewing in final year. Some of them work you very hard - to a certain extent, it depends on the firm, but you'd have to be prepared to work hard in any of the big ones.

At the moment, it's hard to get an apprenticeship, but that changes, and could change quite easily in three or four years. A couple of years ago, a huge number of people had offers from the big firms.

BraveheartGal wrote:

ooh and what is the course like?interestin

I think so. I don't really know the one in UL so much, but it sounds very interesting.

What are you interested in? I forgot to say that one of the things that's interesting to me is that I'm very interested in international and European affairs - these courses are very outward looking.

BraveheartGal wrote:

and any other info would resultin in my undyin love for you

I think I'll stick to answering questions - otherwise I wouldn't know what to say.

Sisu · 02-06-2005 09:52PM

Hi the smiley one,

the smiley one wrote:

I've kinda decided to go for pure law because
a) don't think I will ever want to live in Geramny

Most people don't necessarily move to Germany (though some do). Something else to mention is that a lot of law and languages graduates go to work in international law firms in London and other places. But many people stay here.

the smiley one wrote:

b) not really looking forward to learning about law...........through German :eek:

Don't be intimidated - it's not that difficult, just new. Everyone always does very well. And the classes are very small and you can ask all the questions you want. However, it might not interest you at all, which is a different matter.

I don't even know how people decide whether they're going to like law or not when they're in school - it's not like any subject you do in school. As I said, I was in it for the language. Then I discovered that I enjoyed law

the smiley one wrote:

c) there are languages courses that you can do outside of your course to learn the language...so I was thinking of doing one of those

True, but they are not the same thing. One thing law and language graduates can say is that they are genuinely fluent in the language.

Only a handful of law students do the optional language courses.

the smiley one wrote:

However.....on the plus side
a) small, more intimate course

Yes.

the smiley one wrote:

b) fluency in German ! yay!

Yes.

the smiley one wrote:

c) more opportunities to work outside of Irealnd( maybe wiht the EU?)

Yes.

the smiley one wrote:

Is the last one true?

It's very competitive to get jobs with the EU (you're up against people from all over Europe), but law and language graduates are well qualified.

It might be a good idea to do a postgraduate course abroad to get that kind of career. Lots of law and language graduates do postgrad - in England, America, or Europe. If you are interested in EU Law, there are well-known ones in Florence (European University Institute) and Bruges (College of Europe - but this is bilingual French and English) which specialise.

More often, people work with international law firms in Brussels, which are there because of the EU. Some might also work with international bodies, such as those related to the UN, instead.

Really, you can do anything after your degree. Remember, there are less than ten years' worth of law and language graduates out there, so just because something has not been done before, doesn't mean you won't be the first to do it.

the smiley one wrote:

Also how enjoyable is the course and why did you pick it over pure law and why would you advise anyone else to pick it over pure law?

I enjoy it, but that's just me. I was never going to do law. I approached it as French and [something that seemed like it might be useful] - which was completely irresponsible of me, but turned out well. It turned out I love it. I might have liked law just as well, but I think the extra element/distraction of learning about another country is interesting.

I wouldn't advise anyone to do it. I like it but that doesn't mean you would. Only you know what you are likely to enjoy. How do you feel about the idea of a year in Germany as part of your degree?

I just thought that if people didn't quite know what was involved, maybe I could shed some light on it.

Of course, if you're 90% sure, you could try Law and German and then ask to switch to Law (if you have enough points) if you don't like it. The only downside of this is that you might deprive someone else of a place, so I wouldn't advise that unless you're reasonably sure.

Sisu · 02-06-2005 10:03PM

Hi Shyster,

Shyster wrote:

Ive Law and french down as no.1 but points are high

No harm putting it down - you never know what'll happen with points.

Shyster wrote:

so the law and european studies course in ul looks like the more obvious option for me too,

I don't know that course so well, but it does sound interesting - to me

Shyster wrote:

so basically is it a lot of work with a language??

Are you good at languages?

Shyster wrote:

is the language worth the extra year??

I don't think it's just the language that you get extra - check out (if you haven't already) what are the other elements that make up the European studies part.

Do you want to spend a year abroad? I think that's a really good thing to do, but not everyone does.

Finally, when you say "an extra year" - what's the rush to get finished and get a job? It's a year of your life - would you rather spend a year abroad as a student or an extra year working?

hada · 02-06-2005 10:10PM

what about just plain old civil law? I've heard the lecture hours are amazingly low, but the extra reading that has to be done is amazingly high..

Couple of friends say that it's really boring as well...

So that has me confused whether corporate law (i.e. doing accounting, economics and law) would be a better choice over just civil law...

Sisu · 02-06-2005 11:04PM

Hi Only Human,

Only Human wrote:

How many points?

Obviously it varies according to demand, so noone knows what they'll be like this year, but here are some from last year:

Cork:
CK302 Law and French final: 530 median: 555
CK303 Law and German 490 500
CK304 Law and Irish 510* 515

UCD:
DN029 Law with French Law 510 540

TCD:
TR018 Law and French 570* 590
TR019 Law and German 540 560

UL:
LM042 Law/European Studies 480 500

I don't see a reason to leave a course off the CAO form because it has high points - so long as there's something on the list of 10 you're likely to get. Just decide what you want to do, regardless of the points.

For example, I think maybe sometimes people put law and language ahead of law, because it's often more points, and they don't want to "waste" their points or they think that might mean it's somehow better than law.

But it's just more points because there are fewer places - it doesn't mean it's better, just slightly different. For some people it's a better fit, but not for others. That's why I think everyone should think carefully about whether it appeals to them more than law or not.

Sisu · 02-06-2005 11:16PM

Hi Poz3D,

Poz3D wrote:

Thanks very much

Glad to be of help

Poz3D wrote:

I'm planning on doing Law and German in Trinity (if everything goes well )

IMHO, it's a good course. Good luck with your exams (and to everyone else too...)

Poz3D wrote:

I never realised the degree could have an international relations spin to it.

I don't want to overemphasise that - maybe there's a risk I am because that's how I see it. These courses are very international in mentality - you look at other countries and what's going on in the wider world all the time. You get used to seeing things from different perspectives and realising that there are other ways of doing things; that the Irish way isn't the only commonsense way. Maybe this outlook is just because of the kind of people who are attracted to the courses in the first place. It's also helped by the fact that when you're studying abroad, you meet people from all sorts of other places. You're also more likely to talk to the foreign students in your own university too.

Poz3D wrote:

I just assumed it had German tacked onto the end, without an actual focus on German law.

Yes, I think that's the most important thing that a lot of people don't realise. The German isn't just learning the German language (though there are language classes). It's mostly (i) learning about Germany - its society, politics, culture etc and (ii) learning German law through German.

young nastyman · 02-06-2005 11:27PM

Poz3D wrote:

Thanks very much for your detailed response. Law and a language does sound interesting. I'm planning on doing Law and German in Trinity (if everything goes well ),QUOTE]

i'm doin that...so if you've any q's, just ask me. finished my exams yesterday (apart from Textanalyse on tues which is nothing!) so i've lots of time on my hands for advice, info and idle banter.

Sisu · 02-06-2005 11:31PM

Hi Hada,

hada wrote:

what about just plain old civil law? I've heard the lecture hours are amazingly low, but the extra reading that has to be done is amazingly high..

That's pretty true. Say, in Trinity, for law, you'd have 8 hours of lectures a week plus, in each of four subjects, a total of six seminars that you have to prepare for and participate in throughout the year. So that's less than ten hours of class a week. But then there are all those hours in the library. They say officially you're meant to spend maybe four or five hours studying for every hour of lectures... it's hard to put a figure on it. Lots of people don't do so much during the year and then work very hard when the exams start looming, and do fine. I suppose you have to be self-motivated.

hada wrote:

Couple of friends say that it's really boring as well...

I think that's totally a matter of personal opinion. I don't know how you can figure out if you'd find it boring too. Maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't.

Actually, if you were still in fifth year, I'd say go into a college near you one day next year, attend some lectures, and see what you think of them. But I presume you aren't.

hada wrote:

So that has me confused whether corporate law (i.e. doing accounting, economics and law) would be a better choice over just civil law...

Well, do you like economics and accounting? And what job do you think might interest you?

Sisu · 02-06-2005 11:38PM

young nastyman wrote:

i'm doin that...so if you've any q's, just ask me. finished my exams yesterday (apart from Textanalyse on tues which is nothing!) so i've lots of time on my hands for advice, info and idle banter.

I hereby hand all Law and German in Trinity queries over to young nastyman

What is your take on these courses?

young nastyman · 03-06-2005 01:20AM

had a really long reply typed, but got disconnected and i'm too lazy to reproduce it..

someone said earlier that they didn't like the idea of doing german law...if that's the case do pure law or law and german in UCC, but it'd be such a shame to miss out on such an interesting area of law.

the german law component is excellent and gives you a better insight into law in general, the civil law jurisdiction giving a bit of variety and it also gives some scope for comarative constitutional thought. The rest of the language course is good too, and it's not too much hassle.

someone else said that instead of doing law and german, they'd do a language outside the course. that's certainly a good idea for some and lots of people do it. i've a few criticims though. the CLCS lanuguage courses are quite basic, they're non-compulsory and are not really examined that intensely. the fact that there's no real challenge there doesn't really inspire much interest or work and alot of people let it fade out, or drop it after a while. because it's not part of your course directly and it doesn't count toward your end of year result, some people find it's just an extra burden which they don't need. if you're good at the language and are interested in the country, pick the law and language option and don't be deterred by the fact that's it's a bit more challenging...it's not THAT much hard work. during the year i attended lectures, worked for my essays and just crammed hard over the last month and i still passed (i think! torts is seriously borderline tho!)

the social side of it is great too...you've got both a small class 8-10 and a large class of 100 which is great craic. you're also a member of two departments (both of which adore law and language, as it's still a relatively new course, and the fact that you're, generally, the brightest students in the department.) which offers twice the friends/parties (and also the exams unfortunately!!).

can't think of anything else now...but feel free to ask away!

the smiley one · 03-06-2005 09:30AM

AHHHHH! No, I had all decided and now......well I'm all undecided again!!!
As it stands currently -
CAO:
1. Law in TCD
2. Law and German in TCD

The reason I wanted to do Law and German in the first place is beacause I like German and I thought it would be a nice add-on to the law degree....

However, after all that, the one thing that is really bothering me is that you miss out on like 3 whole law subjects if you do law and german over pure law in TCD.....stuff like constitutional law II, which is meant to be one of the most interesting modules on the course...and also I think European Law...
Do you miss these modules??? (in terms of interest)
Would you need them to go and work as a barrister/solicitor?
Does it take away from the quality of your degree ie. would a pure law degree be seen as better "law wise" than a law and german degree, cuz you've left stuff out?

Anyone.....?

young nastyman · 03-06-2005 10:04AM

where have you been getting your info!!

I'm only speaking about trinity here now. In first Law and German, the law subjects you do Torts, Constitutional 1, Legal Systems and Methods and German constitutional law.

In second year you do criminal, contract, land and German civil law (which includes tort, contract, land etc.).

it's true that people during pure law do Con 2 and E.U. in second year. However, con. 2 is compulsory for 4th year law and language so you definately WILL do it. As for E.U., most people take it in 3rd year while abroad (along with jurisprudence) so as to remain eligable for the professions.

the in 4th year, you'll take 3 more law subjects along with con 2. If you want to remain eligable you'll take equity, company and something else. (Can you confirm this Sisu?) Alternatively, you could choose from a whole range of courses including criminology, sports law, international law, evidence, human rights law, family law...It's true that pure law students will have the oppurtunity to take some of these courses and still be eligable for the inns/blackhall....BUT you'll get the oppurtunity to study really interesting courses abroad (you can even stray from law, depending on the uni, and do politics-y courses) and gain knowledge and experience that they won't.

with regard to whether or not a pure law degree will be seen as more vaild...not at all. you'll still graduate with an LLB. like everyone else only your cv will say LLB. (Ling. German). If anything, you'll be more employable! I don't know too much about this area... employment, post-grad...cos i'm still only a lowly first year, taking in all the sights and sounds college life has to offer! so if you've any specific q's about the course...

Shyster · 03-06-2005 10:13AM

Firstly, thanks for doing this for us, you're a saint!

Sisu wrote:

No harm putting it down - you never know what'll happen with points.

I'll be leaving that as my number one anyway, in the unliklihood of a miracle

Sisu wrote:

I don't know that course so well, but it does sound interesting - to me

I realise you've to be careful with the advice! But I always knew Id keep up my languages and have wanted to study law for a long time so if this course doesnt suit me-nothing will...!!

Sisu wrote:

Are you good at languages?

Well, Im going for a1s in my languages as they're pretty much all i've got..
The language side of things wouldnt make me see the course as any more difficult to be honest I look at it as a bonus that I can keep it up.

Sisu wrote:

I don't think it's just the language that you get extra - check out (if you haven't already) what are the other elements that make up the European studies part.

Sorry, I should have phrased that better, I mean as opposed to doing a 3year Law course in UCC. The only problem with that is that I might not have the discipline to keep up the language when its not part of the course!

Sisu wrote:

Do you want to spend a year abroad? I think that's a really good thing to do, but not everyone does.

Yes!! Basically i think it's brilliant experience and also could be an advantage over law graduates who have studied mainly in Ireland, when looking for a job-anything that'll help with that is welcome!

Sisu wrote:

Finally, when you say "an extra year" - what's the rush to get finished and get a job? It's a year of your life - would you rather spend a year abroad as a student or an extra year working?

Pretty much because Im not the youngest of people starting college, and will continue with study after my degree so if its not beneficial to study the language...!!

Again, thanks a million

Sisu · 03-06-2005 12:41PM

the smiley one wrote:

the one thing that is really bothering me is that you miss out on like 3 whole law subjects if you do law and german over pure law in TCD.....stuff like constitutional law II, which is meant to be one of the most interesting modules on the course...and also I think European Law...

young nastyman wrote:

where have you been getting your info!!

Young nastyman's right, the smiley one, you certainly don't miss out on core subjects. In principle, you're meant to do Con II and EU in fourth year. However, for convenience, most people do EU law abroad in third year.

young nastyman wrote:

the in 4th year, you'll take 3 more law subjects along with con 2. If you want to remain eligable you'll take equity, company and something else. (Can you confirm this Sisu?)

Taking the entrance requirements for solicitors and barristers separately - and remembering that they do change:

Blackhall Place (Solicitors' training course): You don't even need a law degree, but you must do FE1 entrance exams in: Constitutional Law, Tort, Criminal, Property (Land), Contract, EU, Company and Equity.

So to keep this option open, it's good to do Company, and Equity really is a core subject that everyone should do, even though it isn't technically compulsory.

Of course, since many people taking the FE-1s never studied law, you could do like they do, do some other subject in your degree, and learn Company on your own.

King's Inns (Barristers' training course): To enter the King’s Inns' barrister course, you must first have a recognised law degree and sit an entrance exam. To be entitled to sit the examination, you must have done: Contract, Land, EU, Equity and Jurisprudence.

The King's Inns generally accept that courses such as EU or Jurisprudence taken abroad count, provided your own university is willing to verify that they really are equivalent and put them on your transcript.

The entrance exam for the King's Inns is in five subjects: Constitutional Law, Criminal, Company, Evidence, and Torts.

So to keep this option open, you should do Jurisprudence and EU abroad, then Constitutional II, Equity, Company and Evidence in fourth year.

This way, you get to do optional subjects when you are away in third year, and cover all the current requirements for both branches of the profession as well.

young nastyman wrote:

BUT you'll get the oppurtunity to study really interesting courses abroad (you can even stray from law, depending on the uni, and do politics-y courses) and gain knowledge and experience that they won't.

I think sometimes people forget that.

young nastyman wrote:

with regard to whether or not a pure law degree will be seen as more vaild... [...] I don't know too much about this area...

I don't really know either - I wouldn't guarantee it'll make you more employable - maybe there are some employers out there that think less of it, that have their own personal prejudices or whatever, but law and language graduates do seem to get good jobs. A lot of people do postgrad abroad too - and quite a few of them get scholarships for it.

And I'd also say, a lot of people here seem to be concerned about careers, but most law students I know don't start thinking about that till fourth year, so so long as you keep your options open and are eligible for the professions if that's what you might want, I think the important thing is to do something you enjoy and can do reasonably well in, and go to college and enjoy getting involved in all the stuff that goes on... And then, apart from having a great time in college, you'll find that employers will be impressed with your combination of results and all the activities you've been doing (not to mention the maturity and so on that you can point to from your year abroad...)

Sisu · 03-06-2005 12:54PM

Hi Shyster,

Shyster wrote:

I always knew Id keep up my languages and have wanted to study law for a long time so if this course doesnt suit me-nothing will...!!
[...] Im going for a1s in my languages [...] The language side of things wouldnt make me see the course as any more difficult to be honest I look at it as a bonus that I can keep it up.

Sounds to me like it might be a good option for you.

Shyster wrote:

Sorry, I should have phrased that better, I mean as opposed to doing a 3year Law course in UCC.

Why UCC? Have you checked out the difference between the UCC model (with foreign literature and culture) and the UCD (see p.5 of this)/TCD (sorry, you'll have to enter the course name to search) type of course (which focuses on law, society, politics etc, but no literature)? I'm not saying you should choose one or the other, but be aware of the difference.

Shyster · 03-06-2005 05:32PM

Im not going to dublin, limerick is as far away as ill stray!!
i think ill stick with it the way i have it so, thats reassured me a lot-thanks! also, if you've any opinion on this=
I would have to pick either sociology, history or politics..........im thinking politics but I really dont know which would be the most beneficial, I suppose it depends what area of law you're most interested in?

Sisu · 04-06-2005 10:43AM

Shyster wrote:

Im not going to dublin, limerick is as far away as ill stray!!

... until third year

Shyster wrote:

I would have to pick either sociology, history or politics..........im thinking politics but I really dont know which would be the most beneficial, I suppose it depends what area of law you're most interested in?

I don't have any particular insight into this. I'd say go with the one that interests you most. None of them is going to rule in or out any particular career.

However, I have one suggestion - presumably you don't have to choose before the start of the year or else you can change - so how about going to a few lectures in all of them when you start, before making your final decision?

Shyster · 04-06-2005 10:58AM

thats probably the best plan alright, we really dont have a clue what they will be like, seeing as we've never studied anything like them before... again, thanking you!!

so you've heard about these law and language courses...

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