VoIP

capistrano · 07-04-2005 09:40AM

secret_squirrel wrote:

Just to clarify the situation with Dublin geographic numbers on Blueface - Does anyone have their number up and running yet?

I signed up on Sunday night about 9pm and I got an email with with working Dublin number by 10pm! Did you ever hear of such a quick setup?

Cuauhtemoc · 07-04-2005 10:56AM

So which do you think would be better..

Smart Telecom - Broadband and phone line for €35(eventually) or
NTL - €35 + Blueface - €9.99(the cheaper blueface option).

Smart initially looks cheaper but then with blueface there's free calls to other voip users, 100mins talktime.

C.

Blaster99 · 07-04-2005 11:13AM

I very much doubt Smart will do international calls for 1.7c either. I've said this before as well, when it comes to getting broadband ignore the promises and go with what's available now. A lot of vapour in this market. Against NTL and VoIP is that a phone line usually works all the time.

SachaJ · 07-04-2005 11:47AM

Couple of questions on the two numbers, ie. 01 & 076:

1) Is there any way to distinguish what number a caller rang before you pick up the call. So if say I was running a business from home, I could ignore all "01" (business) calls after 6pm, and only answer the "076" (personal) calls. Or even set the "01" calls to go directly to answering machine after 6pm.

2) Is there any way to have the different numbers goto different answer/mail boxes - ie. a different message for each. Again a business and a personal.

3) When someone dials a "076" number. What way is it charged? Is it a national call?

cormac_byrne · 07-04-2005 02:03PM

SachaJ wrote:

Couple of questions on the two numbers, ie. 01 & 076:

3) When someone dials a "076" number. What way is it charged? Is it a national call?

076 will be charged as a local call (they're not live yet)

I think the 01 & 076 numbers will be handeled identically as they'll both relate to the same SIP id, but you should ask blueface to get an exact answer.
Try aaronc @ blueface . ie

Maybe they will give out additional numbers at a low price (more likely 076 than 01), then you'd be laughing as long as you had a 2 port ATA (like the Sipura)

nava · 07-04-2005 02:36PM

Hi

did anyone have any problems with Blueface regarding sound and line breaking

In all the calls I made with my acc. I have th same problem, after a few seconds I cannot hear anything at all what the other people are saying, after that it goes and comes back, I tried with several phones numbers and the same problem, I tried at home with NTL broadband the 750 package and a Win2000 laptop and also a PC and the same problem. I also test it in work today with the same problem.

Does anyone have any ideas, I'm using the 1 week trial account.

Forgot to metion it works ok with SKYPE.

Thanks

BigMoose · 07-04-2005 03:29PM

For what Skype does, it does just work. Where I've struggled with Trillian/MSN getting audio calls to work in one direction or another, Skype has always just worked. However as already mentioned, as a replacement for a PSTN line it's not much use. Hence why I use it and Blueface

As for your Blueface problem, I've never had that using either the softphone or a Dect handset and the Sipura box. Do you have any strange firewalls/NAT in the way? Although saying that I have a firewall route/NAT and dont have the issue...

capistrano · 07-04-2005 04:35PM

cormac_byrne wrote:

...then you'd be laughing as long as you had a 2 port ATA (like the Sipura)

Speaking of the Sipura 2-port ATA. I have just installed mine and Line2 is dead. Line1 works perfectly.

Do you know if there is some configuration needed to get Line2 operational?

Having said that, I can't even access the web-based config screens for the Sipura! I'll have to play around with it some more; I'm using it in conjunction with a WiFi router, which may be interfering in some way.

Added later:
All is well. I put the Sipura in front of my WRT54G router. So the cable modem goes into the Sipura, which then feeds into the WiFi router.

I can now access the config pages to configure line 2. So now I have two phones on different lines.

The other beauty of this setup is that all packets to the outside world go through the Sipura and I'm hoping it will do some QoS stuff to priotitise VoIP packets. That way I can be downloading torrents and still make calls without worrying about not having enough spare upload capacity.

causal · 07-04-2005 06:55PM

Hey Capistrano,
With the Sipura: when you say you "have two phones on different lines" - do you mean you can use the 2 lines indpendantly of each other? i.e. if line 1 is busy, you can make/receive a second call on line 2?

I think the reason you couldn't originally access the Config Pages was because you probably have to set the Sipura to accept WAN side configuration; but since you moved it 'further out' i.e. before your gateway - you're now accessing it from the LAN side. Why that might make line 2 work I've no idea. Can you configure the Sipura directly using the phone? It's useful in case your network or pc fail.

An advantage of having the ATA after the cable modem (and before your gateway) is you don't need to leave your gateway powered on all the time, and the possible QoS advantages you mentioned too.
The disadvantage is it's outside your gateway and, if it doesn't have a firewall, it's in the 'DMZ', more exposed to an attack.

On a side note, I've had perfect conversations with blueface while downloading large files that were using a lot of bandwidth; of course what I need to test is having a conversation while doing a big upload - since 128up sucks compared 750down. Just waiting for the ntl (or is that UGC) increase...

causal

Cabaal · 07-04-2005 07:55PM

secret_squirrel wrote:

Just to clarify the situation with Dublin geographic numbers on Blueface - Does anyone have their number up and running yet?

I kind of messed up my order when I was getting my Waterford (051) number...but I phoned support and they were able to give me in within a few seconds

Just thought its worth mentioning.

causal wrote:

On a side note, I've had perfect conversations with blueface while downloading large files that were using a lot of bandwidth; of course what I need to test is having a conversation while doing a big upload - since 128up sucks compared 750down. Just waiting for the ntl (or is that UGC) increase...l

Luckily I have 256k to mess about with but I do find torrents will affect the quality a good bit, I've since capped the uploads lower and the delay is almost gone
Stopping all torrents removes any delay what-so-ever
Downloads don't affect the quality of service at all for me

capistrano · 07-04-2005 07:55PM

causal wrote:

Hey Capistrano,
With the Sipura: when you say you "have two phones on different lines" - do you mean you can use the 2 lines indpendantly of each other? i.e. if line 1 is busy, you can make/receive a second call on line 2?

That's exactly what I could do. However, I later noticed that neither phone would ring on an incoming call - it goes straight to voicemail! I have now disabled Line2 and connected both phones to Line1 using a splitter. I suspect you need to configure Line2 with a different account.

causal wrote:

On a side note, I've had perfect conversations with blueface while downloading large files that were using a lot of bandwidth; of course what I need to test is having a conversation while doing a big upload - since 128up sucks compared 750down. Just waiting for the ntl (or is that UGC) increase...

Right, it's the upload that the problem. I started downloading a 700MB file with BitTorrent (which uploads and downloads simultaneously) and the called the Echo service (301). There was a huge delay. I then enabled QoS and tried again - much much better.

I'm pretty happy with my setup now. Though there are a couple of little niggles left; I tried sending myself a fax from work this afternoon and it failed. Haven't tried sending out a fax yet.

causal · 07-04-2005 08:18PM

The two sockets providing two separate lines is a definite advantage of the Sipura over the Grandstream 486.

There was a huge delay. I then enabled QoS and tried again - much much better.
I'm pretty happy with my setup now. Though there are a couple of little niggles left; I tried sending myself a fax from work this afternoon and it failed. Haven't tried sending out a fax yet.

Good to see the QoS is working

As for the FoIP check the latest news on the blueface webiste:

LATEST NEWS:
Fax-to-Email Numbers now avialable for Beta testing to subscription customers.

This service will cost €5 per month but will be free for beta testing. If you would like to participate please send an email to sales@blueface.ie

causal

Blaster99 · 07-04-2005 08:19PM

How do you dial another SIP user on another SIP network on a normal phone? I seem to recall that the "number" is like 1234@blueface.ie

Cabaal · 07-04-2005 08:38PM

Blaster99 wrote:

How do you dial another SIP user on another SIP network on a normal phone? I seem to recall that the "number" is like 1234@blueface.ie

Your half right,
If your dialing somebody on blueface and their # is 1234 you simply dial 1234.

However if your dialing another network you dial a prefix of sorts
For example its *1 for Sipgate (see http://www.blueface.ie/support/usefulnumbers.aspx)

So for a sipgate user with a sip id of 1234 you'd dial *11234 if you were dialing from a blueface account to Sipgate.

If you want to connect to other VoIP networks that are not listed on the blueface site you'll need to get blueface to add-them.

capistrano · 07-04-2005 10:30PM

Aaron Clauson himself (from Blueface) told me today that you can't use regular fax machines with VoIP. This was news to me as the Sipura documentation talks about connecting either a phone or fax to the Line1 and Line2 sockets.

He also said that maybe at some point in the future there will be a firmware upgrade to allow the use of a regular fax machine.

So, for now, we'll have to sign up for their Fax to e-mail service if we want faxes.

I hardly ever use the fax machine anymore anyway. I'll live without it.

causal · 07-04-2005 11:00PM

There's a separate protocol, FoIP, to enable Fax Over IP.
The fundamental principle is the same as VoIP but there are protocol differences between fax and voice calls.

causal

aaronc · 07-04-2005 11:32PM

capistrano wrote:

Aaron Clauson himself (from Blueface) told me today that you can't use regular fax machines with VoIP. This was news to me as the Sipura documentation talks about connecting either a phone or fax to the Line1 and Line2 sockets.

What I should have said is, you cannot "reliably" send faxes over VoIP with current analogue telephone adapters (ATA).

You can use fax over IP (note this is over IP not VoIP) with a protocol called T.38. Once this protocol is supported in ATAs, and if your service provider supports it, you will be able to "reliably" send faxes over IP (FoIP). There is hardware you can get right now that supports T.38 so you can reliably fax over IP, the problem is the hardware isn't cheap and is normally single purpose, i.e. you can't use it for voice as well.

Good links here:
http://www.voip-info.org/tiki-index.php?page=T.38

Sipura, an ATA manufacturer, state that T.38 support will be available in their ATAs with a future firmware upgrade:
http://www.sipura.com/support/spa2100faq/Section_1.html#3

As for fax over VoIP it can be done but not with a great level of reliablilty. For voice codecs that are not lossy, i.e. don't compress the data, such as G711, a fax call could keep all the information and be put back together correctly at the receiving end. The problem is that VoIP is normally transported over an unreliable transport layer, such as UDP, and is designed to cope with losing packets, receiving them in the wrong order or with different spacings. Fax signals happen to be sensitive to exactly these types of things. People often report succesfull faxes over VoIP using G711 but in my experience it is not something you can rely on. It may work for one fax but not the next.

Aaron

secret_squirrel · 08-04-2005 05:23PM

A reply in 1 hour 2 mins and at midnight! Now thats what I call service!

kazoo106 · 09-04-2005 12:30AM

The only problem which I have with blueface is that they do not provide caller ID on outgoing calls - I also have a Northern Ireland number through sipgate which does show up the tellephone number +44284179XXX

causal · 09-04-2005 01:58PM

kazoo106 wrote:

The only problem which I have with blueface is that they do not provide caller ID on outgoing calls - I also have a Northern Ireland number through sipgate which does show up the tellephone number +44284179XXX

Blueface do provide CallerID on outgoing calls (and incoming) - I have both
Email support@blueface.ie or Aaron directly and he'll sort it for you

Note: your ATA, if you use one, can also block 'own number sending', so make sure it's enabled there too.

I'm not sure I understand the problem with the +44 number - is it that you don't receive the callerID when they call you, does that number have 'own number sending' dis/en-abled?

hth,
causal

MBI · 09-04-2005 10:52PM

Hi

I been reading the post and sounds interesting.

Was looking in the Blueface.ie at the setup and registration but €130 sounds a bit to much for the Analog Telephone Adapter, does anyone know if I can buy an Adapter somewere else and use it with Blueface, also does anyone know a good place to buy them, or if I look for them what features should I look for so it will be compatible with Blueface.

Had a quick search and found Linksys pap2.

Thanks for the info in advance.
MBI

secret_squirrel · 10-04-2005 10:37AM

You could get the handytone-486 from sipgate.co.uk, its about €100 plus postage - but its not as good afaik.

€130 prolly isnt that bad for this side of the atlantic. Although you could prolly get a VOIP Wireless Router for a little bit more and possibly have less QOS issues to worry about.

Not sure if any of the Linksys VOIP kit is available over here atm.

capistrano · 10-04-2005 12:15PM

MBI wrote:

Was looking in the Blueface.ie at the setup and registration but €130 sounds a bit to much for the Analog Telephone Adapter, does anyone know if I can buy an Adapter somewere else and use it with Blueface

There is nothing stopping you buying your own ATA; the Blureface registration explicitly allows this.
You can save money by buying your own ATA but you must remember that the Blueface price includes delivery and configuration with your account details so that it's works straight out of the box. I think it's fair enough to pay something extra for this service. It looks like you can get the SPA-2100 in the USA for less than $100.

causal · 10-04-2005 07:34PM

MBI wrote:

does anyone know if I can buy an Adapter somewere else and use it with Blueface, also does anyone know a good place to buy them, or if I look for them what features should I look for so it will be compatible with Blueface.

Hi MBI - welcome to boards.
I bought a Grandstream 486 on eBay for €85 - that included P&P from the US. It was the ATA that blueface used to feature but now they feature the Sipura
SPA1200. It seems the Sipura allows for 2 independent lines (although 2 lines will likely need configuration at the blueface end). Other than that there doesn't seem to be a major difference between the two.

hth,
causal

ac00785 · 11-04-2005 06:12PM

Just signed up for a weeks trial on blueface. Thinking of getting rid of eircom line as I use NTL. Any advice. Thinking of going for the €20 option with Blueface. Do you have to enter a contract ie 1 year. Do you recommend the Sipura SPA-2100. Checking out E-Bay. USD$100 seems to be the cheapest. Probably better off going for the one from Blueface. Any sign of Eircom/Esat/Smart announcing VoIP Products? Can you carry over any unused minutes to next month?

capistrano · 11-04-2005 06:48PM

ac00785 wrote:

Just signed up for a weeks trial on blueface. Thinking of getting rid of eircom line as I use NTL. Any advice. Thinking of going for the €20 option with Blueface. Do you have to enter a contract ie 1 year. Do you recommend the Sipura SPA-2100.

I'm an NTL broadband customer and alos a happy Blueface VoIP customer. I have also closed my eircom account

. There is no minimum 12 month contract - they're not giving you free hardware so they can't really tie you into a 12 month contract.

As regards whether to go for the $10 or €20 option. I would just consider that the average call cost is less than 2c/min so each 100 minutes would cost you about €2.

€20 on the €10 package would get you about 600 minutes but on the €20 package it will get you 1000 minutes. However if you reckon you're going to make less than 600 minutes of calls (10 hours) per month then you'd still be better on the €10 package.

ac00785 · 11-04-2005 06:56PM

Cheers. Thanks for quick reply. Any problem transfer existing eircom no. over to blueface. Thinking of getting the Sipura SPA-2100. Any advice? Will prob go for €10 option. Assume I can change to €20 option if needs be.

causal · 11-04-2005 09:23PM

ac00785 wrote:

Any problem transfer existing eircom no. over to blueface. Thinking of getting the Sipura SPA-2100. Any advice? Will prob go for €10 option. Assume I can change to €20 option if needs be.

Porting your number from eircom to blueface involves filling a form and returning it to blueface, then wait for Eircom do it, took a few weeks to happen for me but I think others got it done much quicker.
The Sipura seems fine, I have the Grandstream486.
The period is monthly so changing from one tier to another should be no problem.

causal

Sparky · 11-04-2005 10:05PM

Im thinking of using VoIP because most of my cousins in america use it and its free, but i have one question, I have my BB through Esat BT and if i cancel my eircom account do i lose my BB service.
Or should i just pay the 20 odd euros rental to eircom and get the blueface service to make all my calls?

nava · 11-04-2005 10:30PM

Hi

I searched the web for som ATA's, I only know of 3 models

Grandstream 486
Sipura SPA 2100 (feature in the Blueface website)
Linksys pap2 (recommended by MBI)

and it looks like the Linksys is the cheapest option, you can get them from the US under $100 including delivery.

Does anyone use it?
Is compatible with blueface because is a SIP ATA.
Is there any other features I should compare?

Thanks

VoIP

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