served your time?

homerhop · 31-01-2005 11:49PM #1

Are ther many members on the board that have served their tme as an apprentice?
Do you think that the education system is geared more towards third level education and still look at the option of an apprentice as one that is more suited for people who are less capable?

From personal experience I always felt that I was looked down upon when I said I served my time, despite the fact that I did hon engineering and drawing among others for my leaving cert.I had always aimed at serving my time and had never thought of third level as an option.

30-6shooter · 06-02-2005 01:11AM

What did you serve your time at? I wudnt say the schools are completely 3rd level orientated, maybe i nthe higher calsses,, but if your in the bottom-middle classes in secondary i think the teacher do inform about apprenticeships.

homerhop · 07-02-2005 07:23PM

Served my time as a metal fabricator. Have worked on everything from structural steel for buildings to bridges. It is work that can get very boring, such as col and beam work, but bridge work is more of a tester more so because of the scale

kadman · 03-03-2005 09:58AM

I think that any body that has served their time , has bettter hands on skills, and tends to make better cad designers.

They are able to visualise a finished 3 dimensional article , regardless of the material used to fabricate it. You cant teach that skill that has to be learnt through a hands on approach.

You'd be surprised how many cad designers can not grasp the concept of the third dimension, in drawing, fabricator experienced designers have that experience naturally.
How many cad designers that you know can draw in 3d in Autocad, very few.

I think you have an advantage , with your time served experience . If I was looking for a designer, a fabricator / cad designer , would be my first choice.

I came from a fabrication background, although in another medium, self taught in Strucad, basic and advanced certs, and I put that down to fabrication skillset.

So hold your head up mate...you've earned the right

kadman

homerhop · 03-03-2005 10:01PM

I have been drawing with strucad for the past 4 years. Lads would come up to me and say that there is no way that they could ever draw on a computer. My reply is always, well if ya cn lay it out on a floor you can draw it on a computer.

I think you are dead on with the hands on experience,I feel that is where third level education fails.People are finishing their education and going into a job where they have very little concept of how things physically look.
I had an engineer freak out 2 years ago because he had looked for 3 sheets of 6mm cheq plt to be joined length ways and when lifted it sagged. Seemingly it was meant to be rigid

kadman · 03-03-2005 11:56PM

Spot on the money. No amount of classroom time is a substitute for , good old getting your hands dirty.

Strucad definitely makes an ordinary cad technician sit up and take notice,
oh yeah, parametric modelling ( and I dont mean a para doctor on a cat walk ) is slick stuff.

If you 've mastered Strucad , coming from a shop floor route, give your self a pat on the back mate. And as for people looking down on you, they should be looking up to you , after all your in an elite cad group there.

Cad technicians....thousands of them, ten a penny. Strucad techs....rare commodities. Best of the best.

kadman

homerhop · 04-03-2005 08:20PM

At the moment the amount of people looking for strucad opps is unreal.All willing to pay good money to. Plenty of nixers there at the moment

kadman · 04-03-2005 08:33PM

Yeah a big demand now for them. I'm between jobs at the moment, and have had a few offers, but all too far to travel.

Brilliant software package though. Did you ever use any other similar packages.

kadman

homerhop · 04-03-2005 08:44PM

Only worked with xsteel from a fabricating angle, worked in an office that had it.Mental to try work it out. Strucad by far more user friendly

kadman · 04-03-2005 10:14PM

Well believe it or not Xsteel is as easy to use as Strucad. Both are very similar, in some ways I actually found Xsteel more user friendly. If you get an opportunity you should have another look at it. The parametric modelling in Strucad is very versatile, after completing your job some engineer wants to change material size , and hey presto all your connections update to suit.

Imagine that headache on Autocad....arghhh
Were you trained here or England
kadman

homerhop · 05-03-2005 12:29AM

Was in Derby for the basics, never done the advanced. work mate did it and said I had grasped what they would have shown me anyway. Hard to see the boss sending me now.
Only problem I find with strucad is alot of the macros put in very small edge distances on endplts.Plus their drawings for curves can be a nightmare

kadman · 05-03-2005 12:48AM

Well I suppose you could set up a putlib, with parametric modelling formulas as opposed to definitive edge distances, or write your own macro's. That way your edge distance would always be a percentage of your plate width . For instance if you had a 200 mm wide plate, and a formula that gave you a 25% edge disance, you'd have 50mm to the edge, and so on.

As for the curves, they can be a bit tricky, I have Strucad training notes for curves and parametric modelling, which were very easy to use, from the advanced course. If you cannot get them from Derby send me a pm and I'll see what I can do.

Do any of you use parametric formulas for drawing.

They're from Strucad 99-2000 though, you are probably using a later version ,are you

kadman

homerhop · 05-03-2005 12:07PM

Have set alot of global putlibs for standard end connections. saves alot of time.
The problem wirh curves is you only have to be .01 out and the drawing will come out with linear dims insread of radial. we have 3 contractor working for us and we have to look after their stuff once it hits the workshop. Time consuming to work out the dims when lads have questions.

Have used every version from 99 right up to 10.2 at the moment.
they have come on a long way in that space esp with struwalker..You can send an engineer a .exe file that enables them to open struwalk and spf files.They can highlight a set of bolts and it will give them sizes c/c and lengths.Handy for when you want to get a connection approved in a hurry.
I hated 99 having to go through lists of stuff to do one connection.
Now they are like xsteel where the macros show you the connection and you just put in the dims you want.

kadman · 05-03-2005 05:42PM

Are your global putlibs , edited macros , and saved under a name you designate, or do you set up parametric macros, that enable you to change material size if need be, with out having re vise all your putlibs.

Struwalker is definitely the best visual tool for inspecting your model, I didn't realise you could access and model in this environment as well, brilliant stuff.

Its definitely an exceptional way to produce a finished model, and lists, in any medium , steel , timber, or what ever. Its as far ahead of any standard cad package, as papyrus is to the computer.

After 3d solid moselling, is there any thing else.

kadman

homerhop · 05-03-2005 07:05PM

All edited macros, alot of the steel is fairly standard in alot of buildings, so I have a set lot for door heads, tie beams,etc. Then you will always get an engineer that will want to be different.
What I like about struwalker now is that when you run a clash check and then struwalk it shows all the clashes. Very handy for checking a model .

kadman · 05-03-2005 08:40PM

Do you edit your macros by inputting dimensions, or by inputting variables instead of dimensions, or do you just move ,say, bolts a set dimension to where you want it.

Clash check is definitely a major bonus for inspection. I remember one technician that I worked with , wouldn 't use clash check, because his entire screen would fill with red dots, and he would just turn them off any way, sort off defeated the checking process for his jobs. Signs on erectors did not want to erect his jobs.

I have used a timberframe design package that also has collision checking data, and it is very useful. Its a good test of how efficient a technician is as well. How many strucad seats in your company.

kadman

homerhop · 05-03-2005 10:09PM

everything is dims with me, blame my fabrication days for that.I always run a clash saves alot of headaches.
There are 3 inhouse and 5 contract strucad opps with my company.

kadman · 05-03-2005 10:16PM

Did your comrade who went for the advanced course, learn any parametric modelling , and did he show any one else.

A lot of contract operators, is that because they cannot get in house designers, or is it more suitable to source out side. Who checks outsourced work when it comes in.

kadman

spoilsport · 05-04-2009 12:37AM

i challange any of u pros to make me, a pristine pair of knuckle dusters!!!!

served your time?

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