The proper use of roundabouts

DubTony · 23-02-2005 02:01AM #1

Tonight I was accosted by another driver. Here's the story.

I came down Ballycullen Rd to the roundabout. There was a car on the "outside lane" of the roundabout with the right indicator on. I was going straight through (staying on Ballycullen Rd) so took position in the left lane. As the traffic cleared I proceeded onto the roundabout with the other car beside and slightly behind me. I stayed in lane, i.e. to the left, indicated a left turn just after the first exit and carried on down Ballycullen Rd. The other car exited the roundabout at the same point and was still beside / behind me. He braked (he had to) and blew his horn. All the way down Ballycullen Rd he flashed his lights and blew his horn. When I stopped at the lights at Firhouse Rd., he got out of his car and gave me an earful about cutting him up on the roundabout. I told him to get a copy of the rules of the road. (By the way, I haven't even looked at one of those in about 8 years) The lights changed and I turned right and went down Firhouse Rd.

That's it. Just to be clear where I'm coming from, here's how I see how a roundabout should be used. And I'm talking about the single lane roads that go into a 2 lane roundabout with four exits.

If I'm turning left, I position on left with left indicator on from some point further back.
If I'm going straight I position on left and indicate left as I pass first exit.
If I'm going right, I position on right with indicator on from some point further back. I indicate left as I pass second exit.

The only time I should be positioned on the right lane is to turn right unless there are signs to indicate otherwise.

Am I right?

Tony

RicardoSmith · 23-02-2005 02:40AM

Love to know, myself. I've argued about this before. As far as I know its legal to go completely around a round about in the "left" lane. You also shouldn't exist a roundabout from the inner lane. Which you are doing by going straight through.

From a practial point of view some trucks and buses can't make the corner on the inner lane on smaller roundabouts. So have to go right around on the outside.

http://www.2pass.co.uk/roundabout.htm

Most people go straight through which is wrong IMO. But I'm not 100% certain about it. Check out this one.

http://www.roundabout.net/DIBcounterflow.html

:eek: :eek: :eek:

robbie1876 · 23-02-2005 03:13AM

That magic roundabout looks savage. I'm thinking of the Walkinstown roundabout. Might sort it out once and for all.

MG · 23-02-2005 09:15AM

You are right, you acted correctly. However, you may use the outside lane to go straight through if the circumstances are appropriate.

http://www.iol.ie/~pt/roadrule.html

My interpretation of this is if it is a two lane road continuing on to a two lane road. I don't know the roundabout in question but I occasionally have the same problem on a roundabout which goes from a dual carraigeway to a single lane road.

However, he was signalling incorrectly as well, you were signalling correctly.

Unfortunately, few people seem to know how to use roundabouts properly and many roundabouts are too confusing.

cyclopath2001 · 23-02-2005 09:30AM

I think you were 100% correct.

Given that few people indicate correctly & use the correct lane, you should have been suspicious when he appeared to be following the rules so correctly, it was too good to be true. ;-)

I've even had experience of going the correct way round a roundabout while turning right and having by a car overtake me going the wrong way round & which then cut me up to turn left......

Expect the worst on Dublin's roads and you'll never be surprised.

RicardoSmith · 23-02-2005 09:52AM

cyclopath2001 wrote:

....
Expect the worst on Dublin's roads and you'll never be surprised.

Exactly...

Downtime · 23-02-2005 10:04AM

IMHO He was well out of order, but you were too....

Now if I am thinking of the same roundabout - the second one if you come down from Hunterswood after the shops? as far as I am aware there is only one lane going onto the roundabout there - although it is very wide, two lanes are NOT marked there.

Mike_Hunt · 23-02-2005 10:06AM

It was my belief that you give way to traffic already on the roundabout. I didnt think it mattered which lane. :rolleyes:

jman0 · 23-02-2005 10:29AM

DubTony wrote:

....He braked (he had to) and blew his horn. All the way down Ballycullen Rd he flashed his lights and blew his horn..

For some motorists it seems the horn is little more than a convenient button to vent their bottled up frustrations by audibly assaulting the general public.
I wonder are there regulations covering their use, or mis-use as the case usually is.
I've been considering mounting one of these babies on my bicycle:
http://www.iboats.com/mall/index.cgi?prod_id=626&current_category=boat%20horn&session_id=727436146&cart_id=822406694
But i'm not sure i should stoop to such levels. (I wonder if a Gard would stop me for using such a device in traffic)

RicardoSmith · 23-02-2005 10:38AM

I would have to be louder than my walkman cranked up to full, to drown the screaming of the passengers....

Chalk · 23-02-2005 10:39AM

is this a 2 lane or 1 lane roundabout?
if its 2 lanes then either you cant turn off a rounabout like 90% of the drivers in ireland and exited the roundabout between both lanes or else he did.

you keep left genewrally but exiting a roundabout at the second exit from the right lane is legal,
most people cant hadle it and drive stratight across, which might be what he did.

/
passed my driving test less than 6 months ago.

therecklessone · 23-02-2005 01:20PM

DubTony wrote:

If I'm turning left, I position on left with left indicator on from some point further back.
If I'm going straight I position on left and indicate left as I pass first exit.
If I'm going right, I position on right with indicator on from some point further back. I indicate left as I pass second exit.

The only time I should be positioned on the right lane is to turn right unless there are signs to indicate otherwise.

Am I right?

Yes, 100%.

DubTony wrote:

Tonight I was accosted by another driver. Here's the story.

I came down Ballycullen Rd to the roundabout. There was a car on the "outside lane" of the roundabout with the right indicator on. I was going straight through (staying on Ballycullen Rd) so took position in the left lane. As the traffic cleared I proceeded onto the roundabout with the other car beside and slightly behind me. I stayed in lane, i.e. to the left, indicated a left turn just after the first exit and carried on down Ballycullen Rd. The other car exited the roundabout at the same point and was still beside / behind me. He braked (he had to) and blew his horn.

I'm slightly confused.

You say the other car was in the outside lane, but when you entered the roundabout in the left lane he ended up beside and slightly behind you. If he was in the outside lane, he was in the left lane. How did he end up beside you? Did he change lanes to avoid you?

I don't know the roundabout in question, but I encounter what sounds similar every day. The roundabout at the Coachman's Inn beside the airport has two lanes coming down from the side of the airport, and both lanes are maked for a right turn (to take the 3rd exit). Could that be the case with your incident? Was the other driver complying with road markings as he approached the roundabout, remaining in the outside lane for a legal exit on the right?

Chalk · 23-02-2005 01:24PM

now im confused.

i thought :
poster was in left lane approaching stayed left, exited staright thru, 2 nd exit
other driver was in right lane stayed right, exited straight thru, 2nd exit
both were legal but someone couldnt stay in lane.

now i dont know??

dmeehan · 23-02-2005 04:41PM

simple rule for roundabouts:
1st (indicate left turn) or 2nd exit approcah using left lane
3rd or subsequent exit approcah using right lane and indicate right turn

2nd or subsequent exits indicate left turn AFTER exit before one you want to take

it amazes me how people think that taking the 3rd or 4th exit can indicate left turn all the way around. i mean how could that be correct.

gobby · 23-02-2005 04:50PM

DubTony wrote:

Tonight I was accosted by another driver. Here's the story.

I came down Ballycullen Rd to the roundabout. There was a car on the "outside lane" of the roundabout with the right indicator on. I was going straight through (staying on Ballycullen Rd) so took position in the left lane. As the traffic cleared I proceeded onto the roundabout with the other car beside and slightly behind me. I stayed in lane, i.e. to the left, indicated a left turn just after the first exit and carried on down Ballycullen Rd. The other car exited the roundabout at the same point and was still beside / behind me. He braked (he had to) and blew his horn. All the way down Ballycullen Rd he flashed his lights and blew his horn. When I stopped at the lights at Firhouse Rd., he got out of his car and gave me an earful about cutting him up on the roundabout. I told him to get a copy of the rules of the road. (By the way, I haven't even looked at one of those in about 8 years) The lights changed and I turned right and went down Firhouse Rd.

That's it. Just to be clear where I'm coming from, here's how I see how a roundabout should be used. And I'm talking about the single lane roads that go into a 2 lane roundabout with four exits.

If I'm turning left, I position on left with left indicator on from some point further back.
If I'm going straight I position on left and indicate left as I pass first exit.
If I'm going right, I position on right with indicator on from some point further back. I indicate left as I pass second exit.

The only time I should be positioned on the right lane is to turn right unless there are signs to indicate otherwise.

Am I right?

Tony

Thats the way it should be as far as I know...

The thing that I dont like about your story is how the other driver was flashing and beeping as he drove behind you. I mean that has to be dangerous. He was distracting you as your trying to drive. Then to get out of his car and proceed to give you an earfull when he was (afaik) in the wrong! wtf!?!

My brother has recently started driving a car. Hes been on the road for a while driving bikes. We had a discussion about roundabouts and we both agreed that the way you outlined is the correct way to take a roundabout.

Also, when I was learning to drive thats how my instructor told me to take a roundabout.

Alun · 23-02-2005 04:52PM

I know someone who swears blind that their driving instructor told them that it was allowed to indicate left entering a roundabout when you planned on taking the second exit .....

Personally, I always take the left hand lane if there is more than one when taking the second exit, unless I know 100% that the exit road also has two lanes. Of course if you're in an unfamiliar area, and signposting being what it is here, sometimes you will end up in the wrong lane, and then all this theory falls down.

koneko · 23-02-2005 04:55PM

There are a few roundabouts where the right hand lane is marked for going straight through aswell. I haven't seen many of these, but when I have, it's on roundabouts where most of the traffic is going left, to alleviate that somewhat.

Other than that, Tony and dmeehan have it spot on.

Busy roundabouts are a nightmare when people don't indicate. How am I supposed to know where they're going if they don't let people know? I mean, really, what do they think the little blinking lights are for? Some people don't use them *at all* (let alone on roundabouts)

kenmc · 23-02-2005 04:57PM

jman0 wrote:

I've been considering mounting one of these babies on my bicycle:http://www.iboats.com/mall/index.cgi?prod_id=626&current_category=boat%20horn&session_id=727436146&cart_id=822406694
But i'm not sure i should stoop to such levels. (I wonder if a Gard would stop me for using such a device in traffic)

Better still, get one of these
http://www.deltacycle.com/airzound/hornbody1.php
I have one on my bike and it's good and loud. have frightened cars into stopping from turning in/out on me and to give me more road space near the kerb. Also useful to blast at bloody pedestrians walking on the bike lane so as not to wear out the path. Great yoke.

Chalk · 23-02-2005 05:02PM

im losing the lot of you.

would a roundabout with 2 entry lanes, in general not have two exit lanes?

seamus · 23-02-2005 05:06PM

I had a guy once, I came onto the Liffey Valley roundabout (not the M50 one, the **** of a one at Ronanstown), coming from the N4 slip, indicating right, towards St Loman's Road. I was about halfway through the roundabout when a guy shot onto the roundabout from my left, into the left-hand lane of the roundabout (when I say "shot out", he accelerated quickly onto the roundabout, almost as if he assumed I was doing a U-turn). Pretty much immediately after, I indicated left to take the third exit. He was about a meter behind me, and I was constantly looking forward, then looking at him etc, checking my clearance. We were going slow enough, a metre was plenty of room for me. He has to have seen me, he looked straight at me when I looked behind, so I take my exit. Nope. I hear the *thump* of him suddenly braking, and he blows me out of it.
Then he carries on, I see him in my mirror, turning right in the left-hand lane (from his perspective).

It's idiots like him that make driving dangerous.

seamus · 23-02-2005 05:07PM

Chalk wrote:

im losing the lot of you.

would a roundabout with 2 entry lanes, in general not have two exit lanes?

Yeah, if this wasn't Ireland

therecklessone · 23-02-2005 05:09PM

Chalk wrote:

im losing the lot of you.

would a roundabout with 2 entry lanes, in general not have two exit lanes?

Not always.

Take the Lissenhall interchange with the M1 and the old N1.

Approcahing the first roundabout coming North-South you're on a two lane dual carraigeway:

Exit 1 @ 90 degrees is one lane.
Exit 2 @ 135 degrees is one lane.
Exit 3 @ 205 degrees is two lane.
Exit 4 @ 360 is the other side of the dual carraigeway, and 2 lanes.

There is also an entry only lane from the M1 at roughly 320 degrees.

Chalk · 23-02-2005 05:11PM

i pass over 3 roundabouts on my way home [ down from 7 in my new job] #

all had two exits.
car drivers have to be reminded that if there in the left lane at exit two,
there exiting in the left lane at exit 2

not the middle of the left and right lane,
not the right lane,
and , as has been the case, the 3rd exit.

Chalk · 23-02-2005 05:17PM

im not familiar with the lissen hall interchange

i usually get on the m1 at the n32/m50 rounabout [min 2 exits each junction]
or get off the n1 at swords [min 2 exits each junction]

Alun · 23-02-2005 05:17PM

Chalk wrote:

im losing the lot of you.

would a roundabout with 2 entry lanes, in general not have two exit lanes?

In general, maybe

There are plenty of examples of roundabouts where there are a mix of double and single laned roads on them. You can't rely on the roads on both sides of the roundabout being equal.

As I said, the only time I use the right hand lane for going straight on is if I know, from experience, that the exit also has two lanes, or if there are road markings indicating that I can do it. That having been said, I have come across one or two here where there were two straight-ahead lanes marked, but a single lane exit

Mr E · 23-02-2005 05:17PM

I think driving tests every 5 years should be compulsory. Idiots who don't know how to use roundabouts REALLY piss me off.

kenmc · 23-02-2005 05:19PM

my pet peeve is if for example we're coming into a 12-3-6-9 formation roundabout (i.e. as you enter there's a left exit at 90o, an exit straight through at 180o, and a right exit at 270 degrees) 2 lanes all over. I'm sitting in the right hand lane, to take the 270o exit, person beside me is taking the 180o exit, all should be well until the fu(ker decides to apex the roundabout like a rally driver and cut right across my front into my lane and then back out again. I'm seriously tempted to let some brand new car hit my 93 golf some day instead of backing off and laying on the horn - who's got more to lose in a crash do ya think? a nice shiny new one or me???

Chalk · 23-02-2005 05:20PM

even if theres only one lane after exit,
its usually split into two to make room for cars coming right from 3 entries back.

Downtime · 23-02-2005 05:26PM

jman0 wrote:

I wonder are there regulations covering their use, or mis-use as the case usually is.

As far as I know it is an offenceto use your horn between 23.30 and 06.00

therecklessone · 23-02-2005 05:28PM

Chalk wrote:

im not familiar with the lissen hall interchange

i usually get on the m1 at the n32/m50 rounabout [min 2 exits each junction]
or get off the n1 at swords [min 2 exits each junction]

Lissenhall is the next interchange after Fingallians, made up of two roundabouts over the M1. I'm talking about the 2nd roundabout coming from Swords direction, the 1st if you're approaching from the north.

MG · 23-02-2005 05:32PM

Chalk wrote:

im losing the lot of you.

would a roundabout with 2 entry lanes, in general not have two exit lanes?

No not necessarily. I regularly use a roadabout where a dual carraigeway turns into a single lane road i.e. two lanes in, one lane out or vice versa when coming at it from the other side. (one lane in, two lanes out - it never ceases top amaze me how many cars go straight into the outside lane even when the dual carraigeway is totally quiet but that is another discussion)

The proper use of roundabouts

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