Diver Missing

Update from Indo....

"Missing diver found safe "

"A 32-YEAR-old diver was found safe last night after a seven-hour sea search off Malin Head, Co Donegal.

The Dublin man, an experienced diver, had been out with a group. All of the group came up from the seabed, including the missing man, but he suddenly disappeared. "


No other info up here.

Ka:-)

Didnt hear the interview....not sure about the group. But swimming ashore prolonged his stay in the water. The original Lat/Long given to the MRCC would have been entered into software which calculates tide/wind/current/drift and gives an approximate search pattern.

This guy swam 8 or 9 miles across tide to a visible land mass. This left the search being coordinated and directed to the predicted location. One of the rules of Sea Survival is to conserve energy and stay put!! Unless you are very capable and in a position to wade ashore. This allows for maximum survival probability and ineed a better chance of being found.

Viz was poor and the search had been stood down at 8pm, he was found at 9pm. Aparently he dropped twin set and associated equipment. Also apparently he did have SMB when he surfaced but had passed it into the boat before he became separated.


Ka:-)

Anemone

Perhaps all divers boaters etc should do a PST (personal survival techniques course). As divers and leisure boaters and users of the sea in general we must have confidence in our system with our MRCC, a trip to Mailin Head CRS will confirm to you the capability and experience of the individuals involved. So not matter how big and strong you may feel the ocean is a bigger place!!

Divers/Boaters have an obligation to themselves and fellow users to be aware of situations and procedures in place while using the sea. Training is essential, we cannot leave it to chance or to someone else.

I recommend that everyone should have basic navigation, radio certification, sea survival and powerboating certification before they set foot near water....since that is unlikely to happen in Ireland....it cannot be too much to ask that those involved in offshore activities should take responsibility for safety.

I take your point, and everyone will react differently in different situations. But as far as I am concerned I have great respect and confidcence in the MRCC and SAR operations in this country. I dive and boat safely and expect others to do the same. It is not difficult to learn about GPS positions and Radio procedures. BTW it is not all computer based - navigation and search patterns were all done on paper charts long before computers existed. This is still accurate :-)

I am sure if Derek is looking in he will add to this.....

Just my 2c, I can see your point. But training and awareness is the way to go.

Ka:-)

Originally posted by Anemone
Bit of a dilemma this, from the point of view of a diver stranded a few miles offshore. Even assuming you know about the prediction software, if you're out there with a limited amount of survival time, you would be placing a huge amount of trust in the SAR system, if you decided to stay put. You would have to believe that A) the correct time & position was reported, the software was reliable for the particular area you were in, C) the users of the software knew what they were doing, and D) the available SAR resources were sufficient to properly cover the area indicated by the software, within the survival time. Oh yeah, and I forgot E) that the computer concerned wasn't offline / borked on the day in question.

Hi Anemone,

You don't have much confidence in the skills of the Coast Guard, Marine Rescue Coordination Centres or RNLI people.

Let me go through the points you make:

You would have to believe that A) the correct time & position was reported

The divers were diving a wreck in 55 27N about 5 miles north of Malin Head, If the boat skipper got the divers to the wreck, then he must be using some type of reliable navigation system such as GPS and must have known the position of the wreck, so an accurate position of the diver could have being reported unless the dive boat was not fitted with communications equipment such as a VHF. If the vessel did not have a VHF or navigation system or the boat skipper did not know how to use this equipment then this is incompetent and its foolish of people to go to sea in a badly equipped vessel.

the software was reliable for the particular area you were in

The Irish Coast Guard have a highly trained staff in Global Maritime Distress and Safety Systems and Search and Rescue procedures. The software used for SAR in Ireland by Malin Head, Dublin and Valentia coast guards has been written specifically for Irish waters, tide is calculated automatically my the program, wind and other parameters for entered by the user once a missing diver or MOB is reported along with the time, a search area can be reported to the on scene vessels and aircraft in less than a minute as the search continues the search area is updated to reflect changing conditions.

C) the users of the software knew what they were doing
Ask one of the many hundreds of people or divers that end up being rescued each year by the coast guard

D) the available SAR resources were sufficient to properly cover the area indicated by the software, within the survival time

Initially the search area is quite small but as time progresses the search area becomes bigger. Vessels and aircraft use a number of search patterns such as sector search expending square etc. to find survivors. Survival time depends on many factors, but for the diver in question was well kitted out to survive and the SAR resources are more than sufficient for this type of search, unfortunately visibility and the divers own actions produced a negative result until the diver was spotted close inshore many hours later.

E) that the computer concerned wasn't offline / borked on the day in question
The Coast Guard have a number of emergency procedures, If power fails there is an emergency generator, if computer problems arise the search area can be plotted on a chart, if one coast guard station goes down then Dublin or Valentia can Coordinate SAR and traffic for downed stations. All Radio traffic around the coast can be controlled from one station if the other two have problems.

The questions you should be asking instead of bashing the professionals are:

A) What were they doing diving a very tidal area over spring tides
Did they dive at slack water?
C) Did they use a shotline and deco trapeze?
D) Who was watching the divers when they surfaced?
E) Did they file a Dive TR?
F) How long did they wait before calling the MRCC
G) Did they conduct an initial sector search or know how too?

Ka mentioned that training is important and I agree too many people and not only divers go to sea with the attitude It will never happen to me

How wrong and egotistical they are.

Apache

Apache,

Didn't see your post till after I had posted the reply to Ka. First of all let me make it completely clear that I have the utmost respect for and confidence in the SAR agencies. I am certainly not 'bashing the professionals'. I have been involved with RNLI fundraising for several years, and a number of life boat crew members and a station secretary are respected friends of mine.

The point I am trying to make is that it is a fact of life that any system which relies on the correct operation of several different elements and inputs (even one as professionally organised as the Irish SAR agencies are) is vulnerable to inaccuracy or breakdown. Where such a system applies to a life or death situation, and another viable (and possibly more robust) option presents itself, surely the more robust (ie less vulnerable) option is the one to take.

I presented a number of possible weakness in the chain. I certainly didn't suggest they were present either on the day in question, or generally within the SAR system. The are reasonable possibilities however, and the lost diver making a course-of-action decision would be well advised to keep them in mind.

Thanks for your reply, it made very interesting reading, and only serves to copperfasten my confidence in the Irish SAR services. I agree with your points about the sea being no place for ill-prepared people. I would also be interested to hear answers to the questions you posed at the end of your post, in particular the reason why contact between the diver and the boat was lost after it apparently had been established.

Your point about people going to sea with an it'll never happen to me attitude is of course unfortunately true. Although I'm not sure that divers are the worst culprits here, as they tend to be well trained in the main. This pitfall seems to be part of the human condition, as we see it all the time with drivers on the roads. Perhaps there is scope for more active public sea-safety awareness campaigns. Large signs at slip-ways and harbours, TV adverts, coast guard presence at popular sites etc. Funding might be a problem though. I'm getting a bit off topic here...

I trust I've re-assured you that I'm not attacking the SAR community ?

Anemone

Evil Phil

BIM www.bim.ie do PST courses in both Cork and Greencastle, as do their Coastal Training Units which travel the coast. Some private operators do the course - Seatec in Westport springs to mind. PM me if you want a mobile number.

Ka:-)

Taking up the PST sub-thread, here's an interesting site I found that has extensive information about personal survival in all kinds of situations. In particular have a look at Chapter 16 which covers sea survival. It seems to be written from the perspective of a downed pilot, but has lots of info relevant to divers.

Originally posted by Apache
Anemone,

Cool, it would be worth a try to see how it takes, this link for the MARS site is an example of this system working well in the merchant navy world, learning from experience and mistakes.

I think the key to getting it to work in the early stages is contacting every dive club, school, shop, centre and publication we can can think of, to ask that they make thier members aware of it. Later on, as the number of reports on it increase, it will hopefully be more or less self-publicising. If I'm developing the site, I might need volunteers to publicise it.

The MARS site looks quite like the kind of thing I had in mind.

I can see the merit in Peace's suggestion that it would be simpler just to encourage posts to this forum. However I think we stand a better chance of getting your average diver to participate if it has a distinctive domain name of it's own, and is set up to be really simple to use for the non-techie. A novice who comes to Boards to make a dive report is going to have to spend some time figuring out where the scuba board is and how to post. A lot of them might just give up.

I have a few ideas on how it should work, and when I get a bit of free time (in a few weeks after my hols) I'll put my thoughts together and post them here for peer review. In the meantime I'd welcome comments or suggestions here (if that's OK with the mods) from anybody who is interested.