Pearl Harbour?

Shinji · 06-06-2001 01:18PM

I don't believe in justifying an aggressive act comitted in the absence of a formal declaration of war.

It's worth bearing in mind that the Japanese genuinely didn't "get" the whole concept of having to declare your intention to strike before doing so. They saw it is being equivalent to having to inform someone 24 hours in advance that you plan to break into their house.... And, well, you can see their point. It's a bit of a hang over from the kind of war that lost the Battle of the Boyne by letting William's troops extract themselves from the bog they charged into before resuming fighting, rather than pressing the advantage - you know, "bloody stupid".

Of course, had it been the Americans that did it, by striking against Japanese naval bases, it would now be praised in history books as a "brilliant pre-emptive strike" or some such. History is written by the victors.

Loomer · 06-06-2001 06:51PM

HELLO!!! Is anyone forgeting the British weren't exactly running holiday camps for POWs either - there are stories of brutal treatment in them as well. Lets not speak of incidents involving British Soldiers in numerous countries in the last century.

Winning Hand · 06-06-2001 08:22PM

Originally posted by Shinji:
It's worth bearing in mind that the Japanese genuinely didn't "get" the whole concept of having to declare your intention to strike before doing so. They saw it is being equivalent to having to inform someone 24 hours in advance that you plan to break into their house....

Actually Shinji, according to the link I posted above there is a samuri code that states that if you are going to attack a sleeping enemy at least give him time to reach his sword. Granted the link is to IGN and not a actual history page but it is to me a well written, informative view

I like my coffee like I like my women.......
In a plastic cup

I like my coffee like I like my women......
covered in bees

[This message has been edited by Winning Hand (edited 06-06-2001).]

Paladin · 06-06-2001 08:42PM

Actually Shinji, (Skorzeny told me this, but he is usually some bit right

) The Japanese were embaressed that their declaration of war was late, because it is a code of conduct that, as winning hand says, they give a sleeping enemy time to reach for his sword.

azezil · 16-06-2001 07:07PM

i thought it was good, but at the end when it looked like they were goin to be captured i was think "oh crist no not another hour!" LOL

"just because you're not paraniod, doesn't mean they're not after you!"

[This message has been edited by azezil (edited 17-06-2001).]

Victor · 16-06-2001 07:26PM

"Retaliating against a crappy screenplay, Japanese Zeros close-in on the offices of Disney executives."

Changing call sign to SIERRA PAPA OSCAR OSCAR FOXTROT.

[This message has been edited by Victor (edited 16-06-2001).]

Victor · 16-06-2001 07:51PM

I saw it during the week - not too bad. It did focus on a lot of things that generally are not touched on in such films (e.g. the RAF was fighting for survival while Americans were still making refrigerators and drinking Champagne).

I think there was quiet a few errors - aircraft carriers with catapults and angled flight decks (not introduced until 1946) - it isn't as if through deck carrier aren't available for filming anymore. Aerial footage of post-war ships.

I took a look at two of the books issued (one a novel (Easons) the other a 'picture book' (Virgin Megastore)). I was appalled at the description of one of the Japanese pilots as a 'bomber', in the tone of voice (writing) of an 'IRA bomber' or the 'Oklahoma City Bomber'. Whatever the realities of people being on the receiving end of a bomb, I think it could have been a bit more impartial.

I do think however it had too much of an 'Independence Day' feel about it. Ultimately I think it is good that Americans are taught the basic facts - to quote one of the American women (age c. 23) at the bus stop afterwards, she had never heard of the Doolittle Raid, she thought the war started at Pearl Harbour and ended with Hiroshima / Nagasaki a few weeks later.

Refer to my earlier post about judging things by their peers.

Changing call sign to SIERRA PAPA OSCAR OSCAR FOXTROT.

Hecate · 16-06-2001 08:36PM

Well getting back to the actual topic of this thread (the film itself); I've been to see it twice for some reason and it's still as bad as first time I saw it.

Pearl Harbour falls flat on its face mainly because it drags out for so long that you just sit there wishing it would finish, and that is NOT a good thing for any film, especially ones like this which are aimed at an audience not known for their patience

It would have been a much better film had it lost about 45 mins from the end. But I suppose the scriptwriters had to figure out some way to kill off josh hartnett

mrblue · 17-06-2001 02:18AM

I feel that "Pearl Harbour" is another peice of formulaic money-making American capitalist trash. Yes, it's just "The Titanic" with planes. The Japanese replace the English in the role of 'god darned foreigners', & the Americans rewrite recent history yet again.

Take comfort in the fact that due to the natural progression of technology & the degragation of celluloid tape, it is not unreasonable to hope that acurate historical documents will outlast the Hollywood drivel that attempts to replace them. If this does not happen, world history will become fluid & we will be sent hurtling unwittingly into the pages of 1984. Be afraid.

Mr Blue

-I have killed a man, a man who looks like me-

[This message has been edited by mrblue (edited 17-06-2001).]

Raife · 17-06-2001 09:14AM

I liked it.

Ltr!!
Raife!!

BlitzKrieg · 22-06-2001 07:17PM

After reading all the rants i have been turned off to see the film, Luckily too i was going to go with my dad (who just came back from working in Kosovo) who is a leading expert in the world wars and..

"funny Story" He Refused to play a part in saving private ryan for the tiger tank at the end of the film which he was asked to operate and mantain was improperly built, its Driving Sprokets (which turn the tracks) were at the back which is normal for most other tanks is not so with the Tiger, its driving sprockets are at the front (due to its size or something) U actually see this in the film when Tom hanks sticks sticky bombs to the tanks tracks and the sprockets r not there. I heard the production manager was really p1ssed off at my dad for this and he still hasnt gone to see SPR because of its innacrucy (there r others)

On Pearl Harbour Admiral Yammamoto (the guy who planned it all) Said at the very start of the war "I will give you 2 years were our troops will rain like dragons but after that...."

Also after Pearl HArbour he said "We have awoken a great bear" I dont know why am saying this but i have done a project on America in world war 2 and Pearl HArbour isint that AHHH event everyone says it was. IF u want the English equivilent to Pearl HArbour read on the Hood it had the same affect and more people died (that should have been a movie)

Oh on the whole P.O.W thing Ahem which country created concentration camps (give u a clue try next door)

and read about the numbearg trials people it gives u a insight on how people ordered to do something they believe will DO ANYTHING.

Yossarian · 22-06-2001 07:45PM

Originally posted by BlitzKrieg:
I heard the production manager was really p1ssed off at my dad for this and he still hasnt gone to see SPR because of its innacrucy (there r others)

Such as?
just curious..

BlitzKrieg · 23-06-2001 01:12AM

its just u know how they got the fca to act in braveheart and SPR well my dad was in the FCA and was asked because the FCA recommanded him and he agreed and all but when he saw the Tiger he turned to the manager and told him (politly) he was being lazy and walked off the set, when he told them why they said they couldnt be bothered to fix it and he left They were annoyed at how picky he was and got ****ed off when the rest of Fca startin picking about things (uhumm Tipp men is there anything they wont Do

azezil · 23-06-2001 05:43PM

Originally posted by BlitzKrieg:
uhumm Tipp men is there anything they wont Do

judging by the ... things walkin the streets round them parts apparently not! LMAO

oh i'm bold hee hee!!

"just because you're not paraniod, doesn't mean they're not after you!"

Celt · 23-06-2001 08:05PM

Originally posted by Shinji:
Aha, so you figure that the fact that the Japanese (like every other side during the war) did some pretty terrible stuff (Nanking et al) means that every single Japanese mothers son involved (Japan had conscription

Oh my. All I can say is Oh my.

Shinji · 24-06-2001 10:59AM

In which case it would probably be better if you didn't say ANYTHING, WhiteLancer...

Celt · 25-06-2001 07:25AM

I read that while thinking of when you said some people arent able to lead and palestinians are one of these.

Victor · 25-06-2001 07:15PM

Originally posted by WhiteLancer posted 25-06-2001 07:25 AM :
I read that while thinking of when you said some people arent able to lead and palestinians are one of these.

Hmmmm, sleep deprivation methinks.

Too many freaks, not enough circuses.

molu · 28-06-2001 02:19PM

come on, guys, directed by michael bay, of Coyote Ugly, Armageddon and Mystery Men, what else can we expect???

Nothing but Titanic part 2, it'll be crap and everyone hates it, but it'll win some oscars....

Jug-A-Lug · 28-06-2001 05:40PM

IMO
(get out of jail free)

the film was 100 minutes of utter pants with 20 minutes of brilliance (general time figure not exact)

the bit at the end about the doolittle (hehe didlittle)raid was probably the best of show cos they moved away from the cr@ppy love story.

I cant wait till they make Midway, there wont be an oppertunity for titanic syndrome in that one.....or will there?

for the unintelligent

midway was the japanese second major offensive directed solely towards the american mainland, if they took miday it was to be used as a staging point for attacks on west coast cities and military bases.
however the japs made a greivous error in their estimation of us naval strength and position, the japs lost all 4 of their attacking heavy carriers and the 2 light carriers which where directed in a feint towards the aleutians, the americans lost 1 carrier in that battle.

so with the japanese naval air strength broken the fleet turned tail and it was THE turning point for the us in the pacific.

TwoShedsJackson · 28-06-2001 06:06PM

You missed out on 55 minutes of total pants Jug-A-Lug, yep it was 175 minutes long.

Oh yeah, was reading Empire today and seemingly it has only made 145 million dollars in three weeks at the US Box Office, far lower than anticpated. It needs around 225 million to break even, once you add marketing costs etc. to the actual budget.

Bay, Bruckheimer, Affleck, et al all signed back-end deals where they took no money up front but agreed to take a bit of the profits each instead. They thought they had the next Titanic there.

They have had to resort to taking out ads in the trade mags, saying 'xxx customers can't be wrong', 'the critics are all wrong etc.' Sad.

All I can say is ahahahhahahahahahahahahha!! Serves them right for serving up the biggest turkey in living memory.

[This message has been edited by Castor Troy (edited 28-06-2001).]

BlitzKrieg · 28-06-2001 06:14PM

Jag if they try to do anything which involved Americans winning a battle it'll prob end up being a independance day "WE ARE THE GREATEST" Movie, if they took it from the side that lost it would be better
because

a) It cant be propaganda bull****
b) better chance for better explosions and stuff

But if u ask me the easy way to do a nuetral war film is get a character from both sides and have them have nothing to do with each other except they are in the same historic battle and one gets killed while other gets forever scarred by the battle.

Shinji · 28-06-2001 11:29PM

however the japs made a greivous error in their estimation of us naval strength and position

Historical nit-pick: it wasn't that the Japs were wrong, it was that the allies had broken their amazingly outdated code system and knew exactly what was coming and where. WW2 was the worlds first real information war...

molu · 29-06-2001 01:06PM

**** happens in a war, they're bad things. it's pathetic when some director comes along and turns that into a love story.

I just can't wait till they release the follow-up: Hiroshima
we'll see what spin they put on that one then...

LegacyUser · 29-06-2001 02:38PM

I liked it brought a tear to me eye

-ADREN- · 29-06-2001 09:07PM

lol member the part with the Floating american flag in the water at the end of the battle scene ... jeees .. reminds me of the patriot.. where he drops his GUN in mid charging battle and picks up the American flag and starts running with is.. those scenes just make meh laugh

Bard · 29-06-2001 09:21PM

Originally posted by -ADREN-:
lol member the part with the Floating american flag in the water at the end of the battle scene ... jeees .. reminds me of the patriot.. where he drops his GUN in mid charging battle and picks up the American flag and starts running with is.. those scenes just make meh laugh

Mel Gibson in the Simpsons killing a US senator by spearing him through the mid-section with a flagpole bearing the American flag... now THAT was funny

As for Pearl Harbor, - I avoided it ... sensibly, I believe.

Bard

Vidi, Vici, Veni.

Pearl Harbour?

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