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I've been screwed by Eircom

  • 17-04-2004 10:29PM
    #1
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Ok- it was stupid having a direct debit to pay my phone bill, and it was even more stupid to eventually sign up for Eircom Broadband immediately before a postal strike- but how was I to know?

    Prior to signing up to Eircom, I was on the Eircom 29.99 flatrate service. I ceased to be on this service when I signed up (with the flatrate people) to the broadband serice on 09-03-04. However for the last month of service I was charged for each and every of my internet calls on a per minute basis, as opposed to on a flatrate basis- worked out at about 130 Euro.

    On top of that I was charged for the broadband installation (225 + vat) inspite of opting to take the self install package. Eircom claim that this should have been rebated, but have not explained why it wasn't or whether they intend to give me my money back or not.

    In total my March phone bill came to Euro 468.98- my regular phone bill being in the region of Euro 55 or 60 (inclusive of internet charges).

    I am on the low use tariff, for lower line rental (as I don't use my phone line for phone calls at all, only for internet access).

    I have been overcharged by Eircom by over Euro 400, and despite 3 weeks of negotiation am no closer to being refunded a penny of MY money. I keep having the line trotted to me, about Eircom being 3 seperate companies, and having to discuss documentation with all three of them. E.g. apparently the flatrate people are unable to look up my account details, I have to liasse with 1901 and fax the required documents into the flatrate people.

    This is totally ridiculous- is there anything I can do?

    Shane


«1

Comments

  • #2
    zoro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,243 ✭✭✭zoro


    ring them on monday, DEMAND to speak to a manager, and give him 24 hours to get everything in order before you liase with both legal aid and comreg?


  • #3
    PowerHouseDan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,658 ✭✭✭PowerHouseDan


    i had kinda the same suitu with utv for my class 3 months of the flat rate 180hours day and nite service i got charged for normal per minute usage,as i had to format my computer so rang up costumer support,and asked for the number for the flat rate service she gave ma an 1890 number was using tha away till i got a bill of about 500euro for the 3 months rang up told them that they gave me the wrong number so they checked my home telephone number and didnt have any records of me calling but i used my mobile to call, cos there isnet a fone near my computers but they refused to ring up 02 showing that i called them,then they started gettin smart with me "it is only now you relised that the number wasnt rite like it wasnt half obvious"i got no satisfaction,and i ordered braodband after i got the rite number and they said that my flatrate contract wud stop working the day i get my broadband but the day i ordered broadband (takes 12days to come)i was being charged for the 2 weeks per min charged,fair enough they have all this in there contracts that is not there fault etc etc but should make an acception the the cost support are idiots


  • #4
    zoro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,243 ✭✭✭zoro


    greetings power house dan ... might i introduce you to two of my very good friends?

    here is comma: ","
    and here is period, or full stop "."

    :D


  • #5
    WizZard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,762 ✭✭✭WizZard


    Wow, I feel dizzy. My head hurts...:confused:

    zoro is right powerhousedan. If we are supposed to take the time to read your post - the least you could do is take time to write it properly.


  • #6
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Ok- I was talking to several people- including the "manager in charge of assigning customer credits- a Ms. Ethel Carruthers"
    In short I have been talking to over 20 different people, who claim to work in 3 seperate free standing companies.

    Apart from Ms. Carruthers, not a single person gave me their surname.

    How exactly do I go down the legal route, without incurring yet more expenses.

    Ps- I tried to install Broadband for months- Eircom claimed the problem was at my end before admitting they had sent the engineer to the wrong exchange- that my own exchange wasn't even enabled. This was inspite of my passing "the line test" whatever that was. I have itemised billing of another 160 Euro to their tech support line for that one.

    In short I am severly pissed off, and feel thoroughly fed up. The only reason they have my money is because of the postal strike they withdrew it from my account without my permission.

    Shane


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  • #7
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    I should also state that I have been promised callbacks from more supervisors than I can remember- once again on first name basis, no surnames. They never called back. E-mails to their customer.services box are not responded to- its the e-mail address that they said to use.

    I have no faith that Eircom have any intention whatsoever of attempting to rectify my problem.


  • #8
    zoro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,243 ✭✭✭zoro


    I've heard of similar problems being sorted out by a sternly worded email to the line manager if it's cc'd to comreg.

    better off not quoting that though, cause i'm not 100% sure :)


  • #9
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    By Comreg- do you mean Etaine Doyle directly- or what would be the best bet?
    Also- what e-mail address do you have for comreg?
    The Comreg website only has form submit fields in their e-mail contact section.


  • #10
    The Brigadier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭The Brigadier


    You are most likely going to have to pay it.

    Eircom are bigger than you and Comreg are inept.

    Complain to Comreg, comreg ask Eircom for their side.

    Comreg get spun some waffle, come back to you and say they have spoken to Eircom who have reasons for everything and that is that.

    Get rid of your landline and dls. Use your mobile and get either a Cable service if you are in the part of Lucan NTL serve or wireless.

    At least you have the satisfaction of never paying another cent to those gits.


  • #11
    zoro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,243 ✭✭✭zoro


    sorry i dont know more than "comreg" :)

    try "someone.important@comreg.ie" maybe? :p

    ah no seriously, someone will reply in the morning with a proper addy for you to try ... best of luck, and make sure you update us here so we know what's happening!


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  • #12
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    James- unfortunately as I had a direct debit mandate set up, they withdrew the money from my account regardless, and as the postal strike was on, I didn't know anything about it, until I got a call from the bank manager looking for an explanation for my overdraft. The gits weren't even willing to tell me over the phone what they had charged me- until one person on 1901 took pity on me and agreed to e-mail me my bill. So the money is paid, its not a question of getting away without paying it, its a question of how to reclaim MY money. According to Eircom's credit management department (aka theft central) they have a policy of not refunding money to customers- where they agree a mistake has been made, the best they will do is make a credit on your bill. A 500 or 600 Euro credit should last me about 10 months- but why should I pay my phone bill 10 months in advance, and at 10.2% interest on an unauthorised overdraft (subsequently I have come to an agreement with the bank).

    It really is a case of one little person being screwed around by a monopoly who know that no-one is going to say boo! to them.


  • #13
    spongebob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭spongebob


    Write your email now.

    Mail info@comreg.ie and cc it to phil.nolan@eircom.ie

    Tell them you want it resolved within 24 hours, as you intended to ask , because this has gone on for far too long already .

    You escalated ages ago
    Nobody in Eircom informed you of any formal dispute resolution system
    Dispute resolution does not appear to work because the arse is blaming the elbow in Eircom .
    Eircom have grossly abused the credit they gave you, what protection does the consumer have from predatory abuse of direct debit by Eircom

    M


  • #14
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Muck- thanks a mill.

    Am going to compose an e-mail this afternoon.

    Thanks for the help,

    Shane


  • #15
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    It might also be worth a call to the director of consumer affairs to ask what is the position regarding refund of money overdeducted through direct debits I think that the Central Bank also have a new consumer unit which maybe also be able to offer you some advice. You should also ask your own bank if there is a code of conduct regarding the use of direct debits and the matter of overdeducting. Surely Eircom cannot invent their own policy on these matters. You should also cancel your direct debit if Eircom are going to abuse it in this way.


  • #16
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,466 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Take them to court...Total cost a tenner. Lots of fun gauranteed!


  • #17
    spongebob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭spongebob


    Originally posted by dub45
    It might also be worth a call to the director of consumer affairs to ask what is the position regarding refund of money overdeducted through direct debits I think that the Central Bank also have a new consumer unit which maybe also be able to offer you some advice. You should also ask your own bank if there is a code of conduct regarding the use of direct debits and the matter of overdeducting. Surely Eircom cannot invent their own policy on these matters. You should also cancel your direct debit if Eircom are going to abuse it in this way.

    The ODCA are legally exempt (1995 Act ISTR) from post paid per minute billed telcomunications products . Generic abuse of DD may be worth pursuing though.

    The Central Bank angle is intruiging though, have a rattle as Eircom have committed fraud thru the Banking system....in effect.

    Small Claims Court for €10 , do it.

    Ring the Garda Fraud Squad about it as well. Phoenix Park number.

    M


  • #18
    Ripwave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Ripwave


    There's a thread about this on the Ireland Offline Forum:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=154003


  • #19
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    I ordered DSL through the Eircom Net department, and informed them of my cancellation date when ordering broadband.
    I ordered through them on 4th of February, my cancellation date was 9th of March 2004.
    All calls made between the 11th of February and the 9th of March were billed on a per second basis.

    Shane


  • #20
    Ripwave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Ripwave


    Originally posted by smccarrick
    I ordered DSL through the Eircom Net department, and informed them of my cancellation date when ordering broadband.
    I ordered through them on 4th of February, my cancellation date was 9th of March 2004.
    All calls made between the 11th of February and the 9th of March were billed on a per second basis.
    The anytime Terms and Conditions are pretty explicit - per-second billing will apply from the beginning of the billing period in which you cancel. In other words, the end-date for any Anytime contract is the end of your normal billing cycle, not any other date. It's clearly unethical for any eircom employee not to inform you of that fact, but then, unethical behaviour by people associated with eircom isn't exactly earth-shattering news. Whatever about ethics, it's not at all clear that eircom acted illegally in this case, if your normal telephone billing period was 11th February to 11th April (or 11th March, if you're on monthly bills). (eircom appear to be a law unto themselves).


  • #21
    Nick_oliveri
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Nick_oliveri


    Sick, really really sick. I hope you get refunded man, all i can say is do your worst to them.


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  • #22
    The Clown Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭The Clown Man


    I had a situation like this a few years back where i was owed a good £300 (punt) and after a good 2 months I had still had no luck. I think I had finally lost it when I got through to a woman who hung up on me after shouting down the phone that it was now the law that I could not use a moblie phone while driving. (I was walking down a busy street at the time.)

    So in a blind fury I hopped in the car and marched myself down to the eircom building on Stephens Green (I'm from Dundalk) and refused to leave until I got talking to someone who was involved in the overseeing of the Customer Services Department. After about 2 hours of sitting in the lobby I finally got talking to the Cust Ops manager. I gave a hell of a spiel about how shiite they were and that I was not leaving until I 1) got my money back 2) got my phone line fixed (hadn't worked right in 2 years) and 3) got a written appology from every person i was talking to in Cust Ops over the last 3 months. ( :D )

    I got the money, got my line fixed the next day, but never saw one apology! (well in fairness that was just a raging demand!)

    So I'd hate to condone that sort of behaviour but hey! worked for me! :D


  • #23
    Civilian_Target
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,618 ✭✭✭Civilian_Target


    Interestingly, they tried to charge our family for the same phonebill twice. We phoned them (we don't pay by DD so they couldn't just "take" the money) and they inisted they were right. We paid for what was owed for the next 2 bills, and the extra kept getting carried forward. Every time we got a final notice, we rang them to ask why they hadn't debited the amount.

    In the end, they disconnected us, so we faxed them a copy of the bank statement that contained the payment, the cheque stub, the bill it was due on and demanded that they reconnect us. They did, but charged us a €40 reconnection fee, which we have never reclaimed. Bastards.


  • #24
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    I was never informed of ANY terms or conditions for connecting the flatrate package.
    I clearly asked that there were no contractual obligations when I connected to the package- and asked that I could disconnect at any time I choose without reprecussions- as I was even at that stage fully thinking of upgrading to broadband as soon as it became available. (This was September of last year- my exchange had not been enabled at that point).
    I was assured I had "no contractual obligations to Eircom".
    I made them fully aware of my intention to upgrade to broadband over the coming months right from the outset.
    I also made them aware the reason I was moving my internet back to them, was because Esat BT had not sent me any bills whatsoever in over a year, but were continuing to deduct money from my account (which fair enough was for a service I was using- but I would like a bill).

    I am calling Eircom again this morning, did send an e-mail along the lines suggested yesterday.

    Thanks for the help,

    Shane


  • #25
    kin9pin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 959 ✭✭✭kin9pin


    When was the direct debit originally taken? Even though the direct debit is a variable mandate, Eircom are bound by the originators agreement they signed. This means that they must give you 14 days notice of a substantial change in your debit. I presume this would normally be covered by you receiving a bill, but you could explain that in this case you weren't to know a bill had been issued due to the postal strike?
    Also, under the direct debit agreement, your Bank must return a debit to the originator if you tell them it's an unauthorised amount. This is law and they must do it immediately if you instruct them, although you should have done this the day you went overdrawn. The Bank usually try to bull**** you with "You will only be refunded when we get the money back from Eircom", but this is against the regulations, the direct debit mandate is there to protect you from this.
    It would then be up to Eircom to chase you for the "debt"


  • #26
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Direct debit was originally signed in relation to my phone line, a number of years ago.
    Up to September of last year the only charge was for line rental, as I used Esat BT to source internet.
    I decided to leave Esat BT- not because of their charges, but because I was slightly annoyed that I never (ever) got a bill from them. I had a direct debit mandate with them as well- but they always just took what I considered to be a reasonable sum, nothing out of the ordinary.

    Direct debit mandate was in existence for a number of years- I think about 4 years.

    Shane


  • #27
    kin9pin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 959 ✭✭✭kin9pin


    Then go to your bank and tell them this was an unauhorised amount and demand that they refund you immediately. It's up to them to then get the money back from Eircom, but they should refund you straight away, especially as it took you into the red.


  • #28
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Bank of Ireland have told me that the direct debit mandate is a legally binding contract between me and the company that I signed it in favour of. They are a third party to this agreement. Their sole obligation is to honour demands on the mandate, unless told otherwise by me. They cannot reclaim the money- they can cancel the mandate so no further sums may be withdrawn by the other party (Eircom).
    Direct debit cancelled.

    Was gauranteed a phone call by a manager earlier this morning...... its not occured...... why am I not surprised......

    Comreg here I come!


  • #29
    therecklessone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭therecklessone


    Originally posted by smccarrick
    they can cancel the mandate so no further sums may be withdrawn by the other party (Eircom).
    Direct debit cancelled.

    BE VERY CAREFUL!!!

    Ensure you cancel the direct debit with Eircom as well. If they request payment from your bank in the future your bank may charge you a fee for refusing the payment. Happened to me with my AIB account (I'd cancelled a DD with the bank for my credit card but MBNA requested the money anyway and I got charged €6.25 by my bank)


  • #30
    cgarvey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,890 ✭✭✭cgarvey


    Originally posted by kin9pin
    Then go to your bank and tell them this was an unauhorised amount and demand that they refund you immediately. It's up to them to then get the money back from Eircom, but they should refund you straight away, especially as it took you into the red.

    On what do you base those facts (that the bank disagree with)? Do you have a copy of the DD OA that eircom signed? I'm specifically interested in the "substantial change" bit.

    Ta.

    .cg


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  • #31
    cgarvey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,890 ✭✭✭cgarvey


    Originally posted by therecklessone
    BE VERY CAREFUL!!!

    Ensure you cancel the direct debit with Eircom as well.

    Good advice. Be sure to cancel in writing (by registered post if you want to be thorough) to both your bank and eircom.

    .cg


This discussion has been closed.
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