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Ireland vs Israel - To play or not to play, that is the question Read OP for Mod Warning

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Where is your corroborated evidence that the Gardai informed the FAI that they had to move the game because the Gardai had intelligence that Israeli fans were in danger.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,522 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    There is none, they just keep lying to suit their agenda.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 5,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rawr


    @JohnDoe2025 Do not post on this thread again

    -Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I see you are quoting a post that appears to be deleted? Have I got that right?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,495 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    its not a conflict, it genocide and ethnic cleansing. it also not much of a cease fire with people been killed on a daily basis.

    you are correct it is a thousand of miles outside Europe and why are they in UEFA. we shouldn't allow sports washing. If some one is causing trouble in your local pub, they'll be asked to leave. Israel should eb asked to leave



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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 5,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rawr


    @ted1 Do not post on this thread again.

    -Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Is your shtick not people were who oppose what we are being told is genocide virtue signallers, now they are f*ckin jihadis?🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,803 ✭✭✭dePeatrick


    if I may ask, when is the game between us and Israel? Not much of a football fan but could be interesting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭TokTik




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Like Qatar, Afghanistan or the Palestinians for example. Or do those mistreatments from those not register on your moral compass at all



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,522 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    The Gardai aren't there to make decisions for the FAI. They are there to advise on what issues may arise etc.

    And those conversations are not always going to be made public.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Yet we've had baseless claims on here that the Gardai informed the FAI that Israeli fans and footballers were at risk of violence from the Irish and they recommended the game not be played in Ireland.

    What is more plausible?

    1. Irish soccer fans - no previous instances of violence against visiting fans
    2. Israeli soccer fans - multiple instances of violence against "rival" fans (home and away) and multiple instances of violence in the host city

    The Gardai are highly likely to have spoken their counterparts in Birmingham and Amsterdam and given their assessment (that Israeli violence was likely) to the FAI and the game should not be played in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    There is more then just the behaviour of football fans to consider.

    You do get that, right?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Did you read my post? Or is this just another knee jerk reaction to something you don't like?

    The behaviour of Israeli fans, once confirmed with Birmingham and Amsterdam, was enough. There was no need to consider any other behaviour of anyone else. The match being played in the Aviva fell at the first hurdle - Israeli football fans thugs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    So the Gardai for example wont be looking online at potential threats to public safety, or talking to their counterparts in the UK about the terrorist Palestine Action group, some of whom were sent to jail last week, one of whom hit a police officer with a sledge hammer?

    Of course they will look at football fans, but it wont exclusively be left at that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    The Gardai would have been asked their thoughts on the football match. That's it. That's all the FAI have control over.

    Once the Gardai confirmed it was a bad idea to have Israeli fans in Dublin, that was the end of it.

    The Aviva is not a military airbase or run by an Israeli weapons company. Pure speculation on your part.

    You're simply trying to extend your narrative to a situation where your concerns do not match those of either the Gardai or the FAI.

    And given that you've been very clear that you "don't care" about Palestine or Israel indicates you have a hidden agenda.

    There are other threads for you to air those views and concerns, this thread is about the football match. That's all the Gardai would have advised on and all the FAI would have asked about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    The Gardai would have been asked their thoughts on the football match. That's it. That's all the FAI have control over.

    Once the Gardai confirmed it was a bad idea to have Israeli fans in Dublin, that was the end of it.

    Have you got a source on that? Or have you just made that up and are lying?

    The Gardai remit is public order, the bigger picture. So of course it extends beyond the Aviva stadium and the inevitable protests from those beyond football supporters.

    The Aviva is not a military airbase or run by an Israeli weapons company. Pure speculation on your part.

    Zara Belfast is not a military base run by israeli weapons company either. But there was a protest there.

    Croke park is not a military base run by the Israelis but there have been protests there too over a sponsorship deal with Allianz. Including people disrupting the GAA Congress.

    So there is a very real possibility of protest. Which has potential to be violent. It is naive in the extreme to think otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    The Gardai advised the FAI about the football match - that's all the FAI have any control over.

    Of course the Gardai have a responsibility to control public order but, as I already posted, if you have an issue with that, there are other threads available for you to air your views.

    Where's your evidence that it is "inevitable" that protesters would hijack a football match? Where's your evidence that any protest would be violent?

    I've never seen such circumstances at a football game - have you? All we've seen is a few tennis balls chucked onto the pitch - by football fans.

    You're bringing in talking points that are widely off-topic and they are all utterly irrelevant - the game will be played in a neutral venue behind closed doors.

    You're clearly behind the times and whatever you are outraged about belongs elsewhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    The gardai do not just advise the FAI about the football match. It is a UEFA stipulation regarding security. "Before, during and after". Visiting teams are afforded a security detail including a garda escort to and from the stadium. Thats the FAI responsibility to organise for games in Dublin.

    We often see on TV of 6n games for example the team bus of both sides arriving in Aviva with Garda motorbike escort. Now, I dont think Israelis would attack their own team bus, but I most definitely believe there is scope for "protests" which would become violent.

    again, Have you any evidence that the Gardai were consulted solely about the football match? Anything to back that up or are you just lying?

    The discussions would have been about the few days the Israeli were in Dublin and the potential issues which will arise. The FAI have obligations there. Every host nation does. Its in the UEFA rules.

    .

    1000011885.jpg

    .

    So if Ireland V Israel was played in Dublin. There would be no protests? Because every TD has been mouthing off about the right to protest being taken away from them since it was moved from Dublin.

    Football is literally littered with a history of violence, LOI is no different. So yes there is potential for trouble inside the stadium. And outside.

    .

    I've never seen such circumstances at a football game - have you? All we've seen is a few tennis balls chucked onto the pitch - by football fans.

    I seem to recall, you (IIRC) were outraged by the pushing and shoving at the Albania v Israel game and objects been thrown onto the pitch. Now the narrative is you "have never seen such circumstances". Then you talk about tennis balls being thrown.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    That's not true. I've been involved in International sports evets hosted in Ireland - the process you outline does not align with events Ive been involved in.

    If you simply arent aware of how security decisions are made and the role of AGS, dont make it up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,522 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    Can you give us all a full breakdown of the process if you could please? I'm actually interested the steps involved.

    As I stated to (now banned) poster anyone claiming to know the reason the match has been moved or the advice that AGS provided to the FAI is lying, whether that is saying it was moved due to "not being able to guarantee the safety of Israeli fans/team" or "Israeli fans may attack protestors/Irish fans".

    None of us know and it is futile to speculate or worse to bare face lie about what was advised.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    Not going to go into exact detail on any given event. But it would be a much more collaborative and involved approach than some are suggesting.

    Most of the major sports have their own security department. A multi-billion organisation like UEFA/FIFA does.

    So the domestic authorities, including police, the event host and the International sports bodies own security department would discuss matters in detail and consider the various risks. The focus would always be on trying to facilitate the event taking place if at all possible, even if additional security had to be arranged.

    Yes its true none of us know what was discussed nor is any detail likely to be disclosed, but we have some clear clues.

    If the security issue was credible evidence visiting fans would cause trouble, then the game could proceed without visiting fans - we see UEFA do this from time to time. So we can infer from the course of action taken that the main reason was not visiting fans.

    Likewise, if the issue was potential clashes between rival fans, the game could proceed in Ireland behind closed doors - again UEFA has done this from time to time.

    So logically we could speculate that the reason the game was moved was not due to fan issues with either side that potentially could not be controlled.

    My guess is that whatever tne reason is, it isnt fans of either side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Sure - so why are you bringing up Zara, Croke Park, criminal cases in the UK, UK proscribed organisations? None of these have anything to do with football and certainly nothing to do with this thread. Zero, nada, nothing.

    All your waffle and that of your fellow travellers is irrelevant - there is no football game being played at the Aviva between Israel and Ireland. So we don't have to worry about them coming over here and trashing Dublin and the Aviva and claiming a Pogrom.

    But fill your boots and keep expressing your meaningless outrage - it's entertaining seeing all the squirming and back-pedalling going on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,522 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    I wasn't asking for specifics events as I'm sure it's different for each event but would be interested in the process of it. Thanks for giving a basic oversight of it, would prefer more detail but never mind.

    You are free to infer/guess/speculate as much as you wish, it's just that though, we're none the wiser on why the game was moved.

    People are going to speculate (in a biased direction) of whatever way they feel on the subject, as has been shown now by multiple posters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Oh no, please do go into the exact detail. So was it UEFA/FIFA talking to the Gardai? If so, was the FAI involved? And explain why the FAI need to send a "request" for a venue change to UEFA if UEFA were involved at such a low level?

    You seem to have insider knowledge - or you're spoofing.

    One is more plausible than the other - and anyone reading your posts and wild accusations know which one it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭TokTik


    Any event in Ireland, from village festival, to concert, rugby, cricket, football game, to 3day festival will need a security cert signed off by AGS. Without it, it cannot go ahead. The Gardai do make the decision if it is safe to go ahead, and if they decide not, they refuse to provide a safety cert.

    If this was the case here, the FAI would be using it as a get out of jail card. No amount of lies or subterfuge from you changes that fact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    This attempt at deflection has repeatedly been pointed out to you as not being the gotcha that you think it is.

    And you continuously referring to these countries only shows you in a negative life as you are using the suffering of people you don't care about to absolve the judgement of people you seem to care about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Anyone who have listened to a sporting or security representative on a podcast or news article for 3 minutes would now what you presented as some sort of particular insight of someone having worked in the hosting of international sporting events.

    I don't know about everyone else, but I'm not reading anything here that is even making me think that the hypotheticals that you guys are talking about was the case.

    In fact, given the absence of direct reference of threats of violence from particular groups, towards particular groups that constituted a viable risk, I'm going go continue thinking you're just spinning a yarn.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Have you any proof of that. Ir are you just lying?



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