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Nuclear - future for Ireland?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    @Busman Paddy Lasty VVER 440s are older Soviet-era reactors, dating from the early 1980s. Bohunice 3 and 4 were commissioned in 1985, so are already over 40 years old, but have been certified to run up to 2045. Bohunice-5 (confusingly also called V3) is proposed to be a 1000 MW Westinghouse design, but that has a tentative 2040 date for commissioning, with nothing done on the ground yet.

    The VVER440 is no longer being built anywhere (Russia has continued the product line, however; the current model is VVER1200), but there are still a sizeable number in service in Europe. The deal in the press-release is for a fully European-sourced fuel supply system for customers still operating those reactors. Until now, operators of VVER 440s were dependent on Russian suppliers for fuel, which presents obvious problems.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    And yet they didn’t choose Ireland why that? Could it be that our most expensive electricity in Europe that’s going up further be a turn off for modern industries



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,808 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    That I know, the question I'm asking is that a few people have been bombarding this thread with anti renewable propaganda for years could have spent a bit of time discussing routes and options for building a Euro compliant and fuelled 400 - 440 reactor NPP.

    Mochovce 3 and 4 are recent / under construction.

    Paks and Temelin are 1000 or greater but of they were a small island they may have considered a smaller size.

    Dokuvany all reactors upgraded recently and within the EU.

    So I hope you see my non-technical point. That I would appreciate less anti renewable propaganda and would have appreciated a constructive debate, even if the outcome was that a 440 reactor isn't possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The E.U. sanctions are to punish Russia for invading Ukraine. I don`t believe anyone expected those E.U. countries to shot themselves in the foot by shutting down those Russian designed reactors it would only cost them and cost Russia nothing. That the four have come together to ensure Russia will gain nothing from refueling those reactors they should be commended for far as I`m concerned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,808 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    I know. And it's one less barrier to keeping them / building them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,491 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    great day for solar.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,491 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    But yet we have lots of data centre here


    electricity price isn’t why they’ locate data centres where they do.

    They are looking at 5GW. Which is higher our system load for about 12 hours a day.

    We simply couldn’t accommodate that level nor should we.

    Can you imagine what would happen if we built an additional 5GW and the AI bubble burst….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    As I said, no country in the E.U. under these present Russian sanctions is even dreaming of contracting Russia to build a NPP and not keeping those that were Russian built would not harm Russia, only themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    Sure we have 9GW of renewables! And gonna build 50GW more according to plan that will cost us hundreds of billions

    Oh that’s right most of the time they produce **** all and we have to burn gas /s



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,491 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    IMG_1200.png

    currently pulling out 5.3KW… you might want to check your panels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Ah, yes, Mochovice (also Slovakia) has two VVER 440 reactors that have just recently become operational. However, the design is still 40 years out of date - the only reason they’re going live now is that construction there was delayed for about 17 years (1991-2008).

    That said, 440 MWe is about the right size for the Irish grid now, as there is already backup available to deal with a sudden outage of this size, and it wouldn’t put us in the situation of having to dump at times of low demand. Unfortunately, there’s nobody offering such a product right now. Even the smallest designs offered are over 1000 MW - we are a very small grid (approx. 10 GW demand), and the global nuclear industry will not pour billions into designs to cater for just us, Singapore and New Zealand (the only other developed economies with such small grids).

    I absolutely see your point. This thread has turned into nuclear energy being used as a stick to bash renewable energy, when in truth all the countries that are “nuclear success stories” have paired nuclear with clean energy pretty much from the very start: hydro+nuclear was the original “dream team” for cheap energy, as free-flowing hydro is highly reactive for peaks, and the steady-state nuclear output could pump water into pumped-storage hydro at times of low demand. France has about 1 GW of pumped-storage hydro output for every 8 GW of nuclear generation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Despite it raining in the exact place where you live, there’s currently 890 MW of grid-scale solar power feeding in to the grid from somewhere.

    It’s very rarely raining everywhere in this country - as the map you posted shows.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    It’s also very rarely that famously sunny Ireland is sunny

    Which is how you endup with a crappy 10% capacity factor that’s 9.5x smaller than nuclear

    Which is why we are burning gas yet again right now

    Which leads to Europes most expensive electricity and at the time of this post 4th most dirtiest in Europe



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Broken record…

    Everyone knows that solar has a 10% capacity factor in Ireland. This stunning revelation of yours is priced into the decisions to build solar farms. And they still make economic sense despite what you seem to think is a fatal flaw. Tell me, how does that low capacity factor affect running costs?

    Regarding your second saw: until gas becomes the minority contributor to our peak-time electricty generation, we will continue to have expensive electricity. The only way this even will occur is when we step up renewables share to about 70% at peak times.

    But, you need to face some facts. We will never, ever, under any kind of generation, have cheap electricity in this country - the best we could achieve is slightly below average costs. We are on an island, and we have a dispersed rural population pattern that makes electricity distribution extremely expensive. 10 km of cable that serves 200 premises costs the same as 10km of cable that serves three.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    They make economic sense because the externality of having to burn gas as backup most of the time has been dumped on the taxpayers and consumers who have been conditioned to pay the most expensive electricity in Europe and not question why we remain one of the dirtiest

    just like coal plants used to dump the externalities of their massive co2 emissions onto the environment



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,491 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Nuclear wont make our electricity cheaper how much do you think it will cost?

    any thoughts on the UCD paper?

    EI Policy Paper: Could Ireland Go Nuclear? May 2026



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Screw it. Same old guff. Not bothering anymore.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    As soon as you come up with them figures for the current path of 37GW offshore + 10GW onshore and solar + batteries + grids + interconnectors + spinning reserve


    which been asking you and your friends for pages now but somehow unable to come up with a figure that’s not on this side of a couple hundred billion

    you dispute that we have the most expensive electricity in Europe and one of the dirtiest?

    It’s not theoretical like nuclear power here, it’s reality, today.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,808 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Solar PV is nothing short of a miracle.

    Oil, gas and coal are from solar. Photosynthesis, growth and billions of years compaction or digestion into methane. Short circuiting this process within a century or so of inventing electricity is phenomenal.

    Nuclear is finite. And with its 2:1 heat to electricity emissions it may become unacceptable in future, to be generating 2 GW heat for every GWe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    if only we could do something with that heat like heat homes for free or offer warm outdoor swimming pools or desalinate /s



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Before the so called liberalization of electricity we had one of the cheapest electricity charges in Europe. We are now consistently in the top three most expensive, and I don`t see how that is just due to us having a dispersed population.

    According to the 1996 & 2022 censuses, in 1996 those listed under Clustered/Urban Population represented 58.1% of the population. (2.11 million). By 2022 this had risen to 63.9% (3.29 Million) an increase of 1.18 million and a 5.8% increase compared to 1996.

    Those listed as Dispersed/Rural Population in 1996 made up 41.9% of the population (1.51million). In 2022 it was 36.1% (1.86 million) an increase of 0.35 million but overall a decrease of 5.8%



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I don`t see why it should be unacceptable either now or in the future. It can be, and is used for district heating, by industry, even sewage plants, all of which lessen electricity requirements



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,808 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Build them without contracting Russia and don't give them a penny for construction or fuel. It's the soviet way, they'll respect it 😬



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    The edf built epr reactors for the UK are 1630 MWe each , so in a typical power station, double that ..

    The westinghouse units ,planned to be installed in poland are ap1000 units with a nominal output of 1110 mwe , so likely 2 or 3 of those at a power station..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    When I see a report from research groups especially, I always find it interesting to follow the money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Any comment on what NPP you would support building?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43 Guy1ncognito


    There called photovoltaic panel they don’t need direct sunlight to work. Do your eyes need direct sunlight to work.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43 Guy1ncognito


    Saw a chart onc4 news the other night and according to that the Uk does Ireland was in the middle and Spain was bottom



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