Is Irelands neutrality stance in WW2 unfairly criticized? (see Mod note 217)

Your have not answered any of the numerous questions.

Are you not glad someone in the western world fought the Nazis?

Our neutrality stance during the war resulted in almost half of captured Irish Free State seamen dying in horrific conditions in Nazi captivity. Did our government ever ask the Germans about that? What did Nazi Part member Hempel say about that, seeing as he was allowed stay here in relative luxury near Dun Laoghaire for 4 years after the war even though the Allies wanted to question him, seeing as we seemingly did not?

Joining the Allied cause alongside Britain would have been controversial within FF and Ireland. Many small European countries tried to stay out of the war just as Ireland did. Again, we deserve no special condemnation for doing that - and above all not from our former colonial masters.

When did Dev and his government realise our neutrality was not respected by the Germans.

They dropped 50 bombs on us, sunk a higher percentage of our merchant shipping that the Allies suffered, and sent our captured neutral Irish sailors to slave labour concentration camps, where almost half perished. The Germans treated captured British and Americans mariners better.

And to cap it all, we were not that high on the racial tree, not even as high as the English, so no wonder the Nazis treated us badly.

Why did Dev and co not apologise to the Irish people and say sorry for being had by the Nazis?

Germany did attack us , and if they won the Battle of the Atlantic they would have ended up invading us, same as they invaded 6 other "neutral" countries in Europe. We were saved by being behind Britain.

The Germans proved their intent by the way they exterminated captured Irish neutral merchant mariners in slave labour concentration camps, can you not see that?

Hindsight from your first sentence.

You aren’t even trying to see it from a contemporary perspective never mind an Irish one.

Goodnight

Breen was hardly inner circle FF though. Anti treaty = yes, a constitutional democrat = no.

He never rose above the rank of TD.

No point, it cannot be done.

There is no speech, cabinet minute, no diary entry or anything else to prove this smear.

There was an opportunity to influence FDR in the US though and coincidentally The source for this information was David Gray, stridently opposed to Irish neutrality who never produced any back up for it either.

Having had the FBI observe and listen to Aiken's speeches and talks during the few weeks that Aiken was tricked in to staing in America before meeting Roosevelt, Roosevelt himself put it to Aiken that he believed in being direct, and told him he had been recorded saying that he ( Dev's rep) thought there was nothing to fear from a German invasion. The government at the time fooled themselves in to thinking the Nazis were decent folk and would ensure a U.I. in the event of a German victory. Even at the end of the war in Europe, after the world had seen the death camps, Dev still went to Hempel the Nazi to express condolences over Hitler's suicide. This is when even many Nazis themselves were deeply ashamed of what Hitler had done.

You have been asked before to produce evidence of these speeches and an official mention (not anecdote/memoirs) of FDR making this 'accusation'.

You have completely failed to do this.

Thank you for proving my point. The propaganda and strict government censorship - some people would say one sided, subtle censorship - in the country resulted in Ireland being very selfish and inward looking, and more hostile to Jews for example than to Nazi party members like Hempel.

Dev and co. never told us about the Nazi death camps, the murder of millions of civilians. Strict censorship. Our media was not allow to use the word Nazi. We were of course told about the bombing of civilians in Dresden.

We let practically no Jews in before, during or after the war - with the exception of 100 children in 1948 for one year only provided they go after 1 year and provided the Jewish community looked after them.

That's exactly it. De Valera was also friends with Ernst Schroedinger who lived in Ireland during the war. However that doesn't excuse all the other behaviour, like offering condolences upon Hitler's death, or flags flying on half mast, - as it was reported.

It's possible that de Valera decided that WW2 was very much a British matter and Ireland would certainly not be part of that? I also think that the British nearly had de Valera shot at some point but spared him because he was also a US citizen by birth? and they didn't want to risk any issues with the US by killing one of them.

Neutral Ireland also allowed for allied aeroplanes to fly over Donegal, as far as I know. Ireland also supplied ( every now and then ) intelligence to the British secret service, - also this is known.

Neutrality is always a bit tricky whatever country it is. One can never be completely neutral and this automatically brings up the debate on which side one is more than the other.

Just on the importance of the Treaty Ports, Cobh is apprently the secnod largest natural deep water harbor in the world and Berehaven the second largest in Europe. Hardly "small Irish ports". Would they have been useful to the Allies? Perhaps. Otherwise, the Allies would no have been eager to gain access to them. A non-neutral Ireland might have made things more difficult tor the German U-boat threat in the Atlantic. The Germans did make one ,a major mistake earlier in the war and that was not building more U-boats. Germany even had some plans for aircraft carriere but opted for other ship types.

There seems to be quite a difference between how the Irish government, the UK government and the US governement considered things in WW2 compared to how people think of things today over 80 years later.

The only people trying to enter the country were refugees.

Whenever I used quotes I gave the article / source, and did not cut them up or lie.

Whenever I used quotes I gave the article / source, and did not cut them up or lie.

You were caught the other day editing quotes in the above posts.

"The Irish government was aware of the raging antisemitism but closed its doors to desperate refugees fleeing Nazi Europe."

The Irish government was aware of the raging antisemitism but like so many other countries, closed its doors to desperate refugees fleeing Nazi Europe.

You've been caught lying again.