Is Irelands neutrality stance in WW2 unfairly criticized? (see Mod note 217)

Dev's government actively restricted the use of the word "Nazi" by the media during World War 2

Fact. Under strict wartime censorship, newsreaders and journalists were forbidden from using the term. It would offend the Germans….as the official position of the German legation was that it carried adverse connotations outside of Germany.

Of course Dev did not allow reporting of German atrocities either. And when the British liberated the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp and showed people what it was like, Dev dismissed that as British propaganda.

Dev was good at the propaganda himself, I'll say that for him. As evidenced by this thread.

N.B. I am not saying the British were perfect either or Dev was all bad. But our neutrality in WW2 is not as black and white as some people would have us believe.

Dev's government actively restricted the use of the word "Nazi" by the media during World War 2

Yes because it was a pejorative,
They also blocked overly praiseworthy articles/commentary on the Allies and phrases that showed them in a bad light or overly criticised them.

Would you ever take an hour off and go and read the Emergency Powers Act and the powers given to the Minister for the Co-ordination of Defensive Measures.

Do yourself and your exhausted credibility a favour.

It shows (a) people were not aware of the full facts of the war : atrocities by the Axis etc

(b) people were not aware Dev was offered a U.I. just for the use of the treaty ports

(c ) wanted - perhaps not unreasonable some might say - "drinks at the free bar" / others to do the work in the defence of western democratic values.

They also reported the Bombing of Dublin and Belfast.

Its just an inconvenient fact that people in Ireland back then did not share your view they should join the war.

The British French and Soviet Union were not interested in freedom or western values for the people's they colonised.

whataboutery

😁😁

I said they are controversial, but were not considered atrocities at the time. Some people justified them because the Axis bombed London, Coventry, Belfast etc first, and because the overall aim was to shorten the war (which it did), and because it was requested by the Russians, and because there were 100 German arms / military factories in Dresden, along with railway marshalling yards etc.

Do read correctly.

The point is the media here publicised the bombing of Dresden, arguably the most controversal Allied alleged atrocity in Europe, but Dev and his government did not allow them to say anything about, or even reveal the existence of, the German concentration or Extermination camps, even as they were revealed to the rest of the world.

In fact Dev dismissed the Bergen-Belsen concentration camps as allied propaganda, because they were liberated and exposed to the world by the British, and Dev wore his usual green tinted anti-British glasses. Best not to tell the Irish people about them at all.

I replied already with a link.

Dev dismissed early reports of the concentration camps, such as those at Bergen-Belsen, as Allied anti-Nazi propaganda meant to undermine Ireland’s strict wartime neutrality. He did not allow the Irish people at the time know of German atrocities.

https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/liberators-and-victims-ireland-and-the-holocaust/a/132848552.html

Quote "De Valera denounced reports of Bergen-Belsen concentration camp as "anti-national propaganda"; according to Bew, this was not out of disbelief but rather because the Holocaust undermined the main assumption underlying Irish neutrality: moral equivalence between the Allies and the Axis"

Why else at that late stage of the war did he want to keep news of Hitlers death camps secret from the Irish public, and why else did he express condolences on Hitlers death.

Maybe you can find a link where the concentration camps were allowed to be publicised in the Irish media as they were liberated?

Quote "De Valera denounced reports of Bergen-Belsen concentration camp as "anti-national propaganda"; according to Bew, this was not out of disbelief but rather because the Holocaust undermined the main assumption underlying Irish neutrality: moral equivalence between the Allies and the Axis"

It is the opinion of Paul Bew, a disgraced Historian. There is no record of De Valera saying that.

I have checked several sources and here is what i found,

Irish Jewish Museum - No mention

Jacob Herzog, the political director in the Prime Minister’s office, whose father had been Chief Rabbi in Ireland, wrote that

Eamon de Valera’s leadership, integrity, deep humanity and sense of purpose have for many decades now left their imprint on the international community. In Israel, it is not forgotten that in the crucial years of struggle for independence, he evinced understanding and sympathy towards the restoration of Israel in the land of its fathers. The forest which will rise in his name in the Galilee will, I have no doubt, be a lasting symbol of friendship between Ireland and Israel.

No mention of any Holocaust denial.

The problem with the scurrilous 'Holocaust denial' claim is that down to one man the Executive supported the policy including media censorship (for the reasons outlined)
Is @Francis McM extending the Holocaust Denial claim to everyone in the government and opposition too or is that just for her nemesis Dev?

Any comment @Francis McM?

The same website that says:

"From 1933 when the German Legation in Dublin dismissed their Jewish secretary Mrs Simon, the Jewish community in Ireland knew of the impending dangers of Nazi power. The Irish government was aware of the raging antisemitism but like so many other countries, closed its doors to desperate refugees fleeing Nazi Europe. Appeals were made as early as 1933 by former Chief Rabbi Herzog and Robert Briscoe to the Taoiseach Éamon De Valera and the Chief Justice to grant entry to individuals but permission was denied".

"After the war, some German and Austrian Jews sought refuge in Ireland but most were not permitted to stay for long. The government eventually gave permission for 100 Jewish children survivors from Czechoslovakia to stay for one year. They were known as the "Clonyn Castle " children."

"The period of the war years was referred to as “The Emergency” and Ireland remained neutral. Despite this, bombs landed sporadically in the Republic, the worst event killing 34 people in North Strand on 30th May 1941. Many believed this was in retaliation for the help that was sent from Dublin to Belfast following the heavy bombing it had endured with the loss of over 800 people. An earlier bombing had taken place in January close to the neighbourhood of the Jewish Community in Dublin and damaged Greenville Hall Synagogue".

"Despite pleas from the Allies, Éamon de Valera was firm in his stance for Ireland to remain neutral."

Each year, Holocaust Education Trust Ireland organises a National Holocaust Memorial Day commemoration with the support of the Irish government. At the first commemoration ceremony in 2003, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Michael Mc Dowell TD formally acknowledged the State and society’s failings “Whether by tolerating social discrimination, or by failing to offer refuge to those who sought it, or by failing to confront those who openly or covertly offered justification for the prejudice and race-hatred which led to the Shoah.”

The question remains, given the media here publicised the bombing of Dresden, arguably the most controversal Allied alleged atrocity in Europe, is it right that Dev and his government did not allow the Irish media to say anything about, or even reveal the existence of, the German concentration or Extermination camps, even as they were revealed to the rest of the world?

The media here was not even allowed used the term NAZI in case it would upset the Germans, FFS.

The Irish Govt acted as if they didn't expect any more. Good enough for me.

Any more what?