US/Israel conduct airstrikes on Iran again

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Again, I am not debating everything that has happened to Israel or by Israel.

I am pointing out that the very same posters who excuse Iranian actions as they are victims of violence refuse to do the same for Israel. I could also point out that some of the US motivation can trace itself back to 9/11 when the US was the victim of violence. Again, those posters would dismiss that and continue to defend Iran.

I am clearly saying that the excuse of being the victim of violence, being used by posters defending Iran, is the excuse used by those who defend Israel's actions in Gaza. That does not mean I defend Israel, a complete strawman argument.

An utterly predictable response. The whole 'fact' thing was obviously disingenuous and quickly evaporated on first challenge. You are completely unable to bring yourself to criticise Israel, so no strawman there. You are only interested in isolated facts that reinforce your own position, not the truth.

Such posts prove that you are here to defend Israel to the hilt. You know it and everyone reading the thread knows it. This latest post further confirms it is your position.
Who is defending Iran 'to the hilt'? Who has not said negative things about Iran? In how it treats its own citizens? The only strawman is the false one you have tried to paint.
But they have been consistent that this attack by Israel and the US on Iran is not the way to go about improving things in Iran. The US operation has been a complete ill thought out humiliation, and any nonsense about justifying it to improve the lot of the Iranian people has been exposed as a complete pack of lies in the rubble of a school.

So any claims that your position is defending Israel to the hilt are fully justified while you refuse to criticise Israel.

Again, that distinction is based on comptency rather than intent.

Israel shot down over 95% of the missiles targetted at Israeli citizens from Iran, Gaza shot down close to 0%. The outcome in Gaza was far far worse for the ordinary people of Gaza, I agree with you on that, but on the intent, the rhetoric and intent from Iran is equally bad.

Yes, I have no doubt that Iran committed warcrimes particularly in Israel, and would have committed more had the Israelis not had the defences they have. For example Iran used cluster missiles over civilian areas which in themselves are indiscriminate and can't be targeted, awful things.

These are undoubtedly warcrimes - but where I do feel there is a difference in intent is when the other side has an actual military to fight back with. Iran have dropped bombs knowing Israel have defences and a military which is probably a match to their own, if not stronger (and massively so when the US are involved).

It is completely different to dropping bombs on a civilian enclave when they have absolutely no way to defend themselves, outside of a terrorist militia.

In international law, the responsibility to not kill civilians sits with the aggressive actor. It's not an excuse to drop the energy equivalent of 7- 12 Hiroshima's (estimates are 150 - 200k tonnes) on an area half the size of our wee county Louth and say "not our fault they don't have an army or an iron dome". That's before you bring in the man made famine into the equation.

And the other difference is - you see similarities between Iran and Israel in their targeting of civilians - for some reason Israel aren't facing the crippling sanctions, instead they seem to have widespread support from our leaders in the west.

Either way, imo, whilst the acts of either country are in any way morally or legally acceptable, they aren't the same thing.

Possibly. Though if that was the case I'd reckon they would be joining in, that war would be just imo.

It's quite easy to see this for what it is. I doubt there has ever been a US war with such little support amongst both it's own people AND the leaders of it's allies.

I also don't agree that Iran would use a nuclear weapon as they'd be annihilated. But given what's happening to them, it v difficult to argue that they didn't need a weapon as a deterrent against those who covet their oil, or want to destroy their influence in the middle east etc.

It is far more likely the case that western leaders are keeping their heads down and trying not to ruffle the feathers of the lunatics who have taken over in the USA and Israel.

All this policy seems to be getting us is those two administrations dragging the world that has benefited us all so much further and further down the toilet.

How do you know that?

The only response I can give is that if Iran nuked Tel Aviv, there would be no Tehran. The Iranian regime are a lot of bad things, but they don't strike me as being raving suicidal idiots.

The only people who portray them as such are those who have started a war with them, and who have again and again been made look stupid by those very same raving suicidal idiots.

As to your "dancing in the street" comments - are much of the Iranian people not open minded, peaceful and somewhat western leaning in their temperament? They are unfortunately under the hold of a brutally strict ultra religious regime which does not have widespread support (hence the protests and authoritarian killings in response that we have seen play out again and again.).

This war has no more to do with stopping Iran getting a nuclear weapon than the invasion of Iraq was to destroy it's "WMDs" - USAs allies know it (hence them staying well tf away), most of its citizens know it, and dare I say, I'm sure you know it too.

While the world is looking at the Gulf and the Straits…..

Iran conducting near-daily prisoner executions in secrecy, say rights groups | Iran | The Guardian

That is awful, the stuff that goes on inside Iran is horrific, but the only execution story in the last few months that got any traction on here was a draft proposal before Israel's parliament that hasn't made it into law yet!!

looks now like the US

The US military carried out strikes on Iran’s coastal city of Bandar Abbas and the island of Qeshm in the Strait of Hormuz, an American official tells Fox News, after Iranian media reported the sounds of explosions in both locales.

The official says the strikes don’t mark a resumption of the war

Rumour mill that Iran damaged a US ship but now we have confirmation that the US bombed Iran tonight so maybe some credence to above rumour

A US official tells Axios that US forces bombed Iran tonight, but the strikes are not a resumption of the war.

What the hell is going on in the ME. Do the Americans and Israelis not understand the meaning of a ceasefire?

looks like US response to iran attacks on UAE earlier this week (apparently Saudis and UAE not happy so US had to act to keep them and their bases on board) iran has brought this one on themselves but sounds like a skirmish for now