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Farm energy in changed times

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭have2flushtwice


    ya just don't know with lads, some could be the finest. But with thay outfit there was only 1 winner and it wasn't the roma lad in sure..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭9935452




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,544 ✭✭✭✭fits


    if people gave up the tractor runs and using heavy machinery in protests it might save a bit of fuel!

    That won’t be popular but it’s a bugbear of mine. Too many tractor runs on around here imo. The massive tractors in particular aren’t leisure vehicles. There are other ways to earn money for charity. Wear wellies on a bicycle or something. Would be more fun too.

    otherwise I think it’s tricky. Farmers are very exposed to oil price and few enough alternatives. Solar is part of the answer but it’s not the best use of the grid imo and ideally should be co located with wind and batteries in bigger stations with good grid connectivity.

    I guess electric tractors will come but seem to be a while off yet. Maybe hydrogen will have a role here. I don’t know. In general I guess we just will need to be very mindful of using only what we need in fertiliser and fuel.

    Separately the electric car has saved us over 2500 a year in fuel costs. Every two car household that can install a chargepoint should have at least one EV. We bought one as the second car 5 years ago but it immediately became the primary car.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭emaherx


    I have to agree, with the tractor runs at the moment, it's very bad optics for anyone campaigning for fuel supports. At least limiting to charity working days or vintage displays would be some compromise.

    Solar may not be the best option for the grid, but from my limited experience of our recent install it seems to be a no brainer for our domestic self consumption, finance is less than our previous bills and it is generating all we can use at the moment + surplus to the grid.

    Diesel is still king for large vehicles, I guess the future will be a mix of technology, electric could definitely work for yard equipment and a mix of hydrogen and more traditional ICE engines with alternative fuels, PPO/HVO, methane etc. But there needs to be infrastructure to deliver. There's not really many practical options out there at the moment and it will be a long time transitioning compared with cars due to how long we maintain and operate farm equipment. Unless there is a real long term shortage of fuel I can't see much changing anytime soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,194 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Is there any issue with "dirty" electricity from running on batteries/solar? As in small changes in the consistency of the supply that would damage motors in the long-term or does it keep in contact with the grid to maintain consistency



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,062 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    I think it’s bad policy that the government reduced the grant on solar.
    surely getting more out there with battery storage is a no brainier



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,544 ✭✭✭✭fits


    some good news yesterday on air pollutant emissions. A large part of credit comes from change in farming practices.

    Link to infographic

    https://www.epa.ie/publications/monitoring--assessment/climate-change/air-emissions/2026_EPA_Air_Pollutant_Report_INFOGRAPHIC_Final.pdf

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,614 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Buying an electric car is a no brainer for sole traders, self employed or businesses at present. You can claim the total 24k car depreciation allowance in one year like other solar/ green energy allowances. That allowance is due to end December 26, however the government may renew in 2027.

    We purchased an electric car in March. Its like driving a high preforance petrol car, although I am beyond that stage. At this stage yes it getting used more as it less than 2c/ km to run. A diesel ICE that is doing 50 mpg is costing 11c/ km. Ww intend to put solar in the end ⁸of the year.

    For anyone doing a solar project start to consider a battery. In Holland and Belgium more and more they are looking at doing away with FIT because of the effect the domestic solar has on the low voltage network. They are pushing for solar produced on the LVN to be used by the owner.

    Technology can change and adapt very fast. Look at mobile phone and labtops. From a standing start in the late 198O's to 2000 they changed voice telecommunications, then from 2010 to 2020 they again changed how we used telecommunications.

    At present it seems that battery technology will be where the biggest change may take place. As well use of electric engines may be an option for slurry spreading using reels and wrapping bales in yards, robotic and batteries for yard and slat cleaning, quads and other small machines.

    Recently bought a battery operated knapsack sprayer. If you had enough 10L drums, I think I could put out 70-80L / hour. I be faster than using a tractor sprayer by myself especially when you allow for putting on and off the sprayer. Easier on the knees as well..

    Not as much from battery to domestic as its rectified and it should be smoothed by the battery. There is an issue where you export for FIT or if you have no battery as voltage would be more variable.

    Motors generally should not be a serious issue, its electronics which are compromised by variable voltage. With motors you may suffer a bit from variavle power issue

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,936 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Pulled the trigger today on 1500l of green, 1.52 per litre, I'm assuming that includes vat! Can't see that Hormuz situation wrapping up anytime soon, said I better get it in case it gets scarce.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭dmakc


    If the country was any bit serious about bolstering the grid and saving consumer energy costs they'd stop chasing data centres. It's increasingly evident to see just how compromised Micheal Martin is here. We are already a complete outlier in this aspect compared to the EU and seem to be pushing policy onward despite the long term job creation not being local. In fact it's arguable that the long term outlook is net negative in terms of related jobs considering AI (and offshoring to Asia).

    We will never catch up on energy with a runaway numerator. I'm actually shocked that there hasn't been an emergency policy yet considering their fossil fuel dependency and the bumpy ride the world is in for.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,194 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Hadn't realised that the battery would have a certain amount of a stabilising effect.

    For going beyond household use levels. Compressors, heating elements and motors starting and stopping. Would that create a more difficult problem to solve or is it simply a case of a big enough inverter and battery?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭emaherx


    I would say its relatively clean compared with generators and the like, the inverter is grid tied which means it depends on the grid for frequency generation, there will be spikes and dips when you turn on something large but if you watch the power meters there is actually a momentary draw or push to/from the grid when that happens.

    I've emergency backup from the battery in the case of a power failure for one circuit which consists of a double socket, when the grid goes down I believe it momentarily will go down too while the inverter isolates from the grid and starts it's own frequency generation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Absolutely technology can change very quickly and not always in the direction we are expecting. The longer the disruption to the normal flow of oil exists the more likely change could happen, nothing like a crisis to bring on some innovation. There would be some irony if Donald Trump is the one who causes the biggest push into renewables!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭jimmy G M


    Bass, i write off 33% of my car depreciation and running expenses against farm income here. Are you saying that in my case I could claim a full 33% of €24k against my farm income in year 1 if I changed to an electric car?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,544 ✭✭✭✭fits


    surely that only applies if it’s a business vehicle? Eg a van?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,614 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    After checking it on line I get two different versions. One says there is a private use limit one says thete is no private use charge back. Check with your accountant. Mine gave me the 24k was completely useable.

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,062 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Got 10kw battery installed this morning. Not much to it in fairness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,870 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    We've an electric Aga here, and a 10kw battery so the solar gives a considerble saving in good weather.

    22 panels gave us a 50% saving on the years electricity costs



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    Just curious to know is the any difference s in diesel consumption between the different brands nowadays.fendt used to have a great name for it but dont alot of brands share engines now.also is there any swing in remapping to trim diesel consumption or is still power and deleting adblue that's the big push



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Bass, I come across lots of your "tax advice" on here, you seem very eager to offer it. I think you talk a lot of uneducated dangerous waffle on the topic, so much that I felt the need to register to warn others to be careful when taking your advice.

    For example your latest "You can claim the total 24k car depreciation allowance in one year ". Here we have a technically correct statment, however it really needs more than a taboild style headline as it is not that simple, you are giving bar stool tax advice based on basic googling (which you have just admited).

    Ignoring the fact that you need to justify that the electric car is used for farm purposes (and apply the private use deduction), it is worth pointing out that 100% capital allowances on an asset that will be traded down the line (ie a car) only gives a cashflow benefit as all the cap allowances are claimed in year 1 instead of over 8, and will in fact lead to a relcaim of the over claimed capital allowances if sold for more than €1, this will likely lead to a nasty shock for someone as lots of people dont hold onto cars for 8 years (eg buy the car for €24k, claim it all in year 1, sell in year 5 for €12k then you overclaimed €12k of capital allowances that need to be repaid). Your advice seems to indicate that its a beautiful tax write off with no consequences, I see you then did a little (but not a lot) of googling on the matter and later introduced the €24k limit.

    I also remember daft and dangerous ones like claim your home heating oil because you can just say that you had a calf warming up in the sitting room!!!! I dont think I need to comment on how stupid this is.

    Look you might want to take daft risks with your tax affairs but please be careful when presenting your "advice" as facts.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,614 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    First off I never said I had a calf warmjng in the sitting room. I do have a home office that keeps all my farm documentation. I have a Board bia inspection tomorrow I spend over an hour last night updating documentation. If it was wintertime I expect I be entitled to a bit of heat while doing the documentation. Farm clothes need to be dried and aired in a hot⁹ press heated by guess oil.

    The receipt was in the bunch given to the accountant, verified by an account transaction it was they included it in my accounts, funny enough I did not ask

    I think most farmers are aware of accelerated allowances and what happens when you sell a depreciated article. The 24k for a private car is a very limited allowance as its about 50% of the value of a new midsized car whether its electrical, hybrid or an ICE type vehicle.

    Accelerated allowances are now part and parcel of any renewable energy or energy saving neasure accross industry.

    You forgot to mention about the advantage of using an accelerated in this instance. It improves cashflow, if the government renew the tax relief you can repeat the process. Most newer cars depreciate faster than the alotted allowance. If you have the ability to deprecate the full allowance most will worry about the conquences "if" that issue arises. Accountants usually deal with it as follows. Car cost 24k so allowance is traded after 4 year car is traded with a residual value of 10k, new car cost 18k with trade in. Accountant will set up a new 18k depreciation allowance

    Its quite likly the government will renew the allowance. It quite common in other jurisdictions to have similar tax reliefs. For instance in the UK you can buy an EV in the UK and use salary scarfice to pay for it.

    https://www.loveelectric.cars/blog/ev-tax-incentives-uk

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,675 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    You may stop waffling, if you your new ev cost say 40k, you drew down the 24k capitail allownaces in year one...

    In year 4 you trade it in for a new ev and a 24k allowance is still available, if the trade in value of your old ev is 10k, as you have paid 16k outside of the 24k limit your allowed to deduct this figure of the "balancing charge" payable to revenue so its now 6k, you can use a section 290 to do as you suggested our simply let the balancing charge be taxed for that current year and draw down the full 24k allowance on the new ev...

    But if you do, you reduce your new car thresehold by the amount of the balancing charge if going the 290 route



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "I think most farmers are aware of accelerated allowances and what happens when you sell a depreciated article."

    Maybe they are aware of the concept and have availed of it but absolutely not true that typical farmers have dealth with selling on an accelerated capital allowance and the clawback. Consider the types of things farmers buy under the accelerated rules (farm building, safety equipment, crushes, slurry), how many of these items get sold on? In this context your uneducated "advice" is dangerous.

    BTW, your link is for UK tax. #1 UK is a different country, #2 UK has different tax rules. I strongly advise you dont base your frequent tax advise on random google links, did you dont even read it, did you not notice that the UK is mentioned 20 times in that article, that £ is used 35 times?

    On the home heating oil, you are being daft and greedy, the fact you use a scenario of doing at most an annual bord bia audit paperwork in late april as an excuse says it all, absolute desperation is all that justification is. I know farming often gets a blind eye from the revenue but they have their limits, do you think are self employed plumbers claiming that they have to heat their house to dry their jacket? The tax rules clearly state that you can deduct a % for expenses used for both business and personal based on the % business use, there is no way you can justify anything meaningful from heating your family home towards the farm business, at least nothing worth talking about. The way you constantly push this advice makes it clear you are claiming a material amount.

    You do realise that its greed that attracts the attention of the revenue, if they see you as taking the mikey they will extend the scope of a review / audit. I see you are looking to replace a jeep on another thread, I guess you are writing off the jeep fully against the farm and by the sounds of also most of your family electric car, that cannot be justified. That will end well, you will get to know all about accelerated capital allowances when they claw it back of you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,614 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Its a legal requirements to provide drying area's, dining and hygiene faculities on large sites. The local authorities provide mobile facilities at even the smallest of work locations. Gone are the days of hopping behind the ditch to do your business.

    A farmhouse is a business premises. My son when he build his new house hs put a toilet sink and shower inside the back door off the utility room. He has adapted the utility putting in dirty boot box and coat cubboard.

    Gone are the days when workers are expected to wash in a basin and sh!t behind a ditch. Why should farming be different and why should they not allow for such facts in there business accounts

    Many business and professions write down such costs. When employees started working from home tax laws chnged to accommodate this. Employers have often refunded employees certin utility costs where they provide faculities.

    Self employed plumber would be entitled to claim his part of his electricity heating, phone and broadband costs. Not only that but laundry and dryings costs And 66% business is a fairly common standard.

    Yes my jeep is claimed. Its a passenger vehicle 2010 RAV. The accountant lobs all motoring expenses together and claims 66%. The 24k allowance for the electric car is now lobbed into that equation.

    I gave the UK tax as an example of how other jurisdictions are giving tax reliefs to encourage renewable's.

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,881 ✭✭✭straight


    It's funny that you bring up tradespeople. Trying to find one to take anything but cash is quite a challenge.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,662 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    I find most people offer to pay in cash, how registered lads who are taking all cash manage, I don't know, revenue will catch up with them eventually, charge enough and put it through the books is more straightforward



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,614 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I smiled when I read that. Ya most trades working for themselves are that way. They love the paper payment. Having said that most lads I deal with quote me inc vat

    What I dislike is the lad doing a job and quoting you a price and when you want to pay be cheque, card or bank transfer he starts on about it being a cash price.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,614 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Talking to a larger subcontractor a while back and at this stage alot of the cash he gets is used to pay lads to work Saturday. Its the only way they are willing to work them now. At time and a half the still end up with less per day than working during the week.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,662 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    That works both ways, I've been asked for a cash price, then when the job is finished they look for a receipt, so I give the same price now irrespective



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Jb1989


    When you get the quote it's up to you to ask the vat status there and then if not already specified.



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