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General British politics discussion thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,683 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Robbins has skewered Starmer and his cabinet from the off during his appearance this morning, he effectively says Starmer made the decision to appoint Mandelson and the whole vetting process was an afterthought



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,736 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Every day the House sits, you get the performative BS you talk about, except it's waffle, half answers, and PR speak. Yesterday was the closer to speaking the truth than most MP's ever get.

    If Hoyle held people to account for lying to 10% of the level he held those who identified them as such yesterday, Parliament would be a lot more effective.

    It's a sign of the times that people look at that situation and think Sultana is the one that needs disciplining.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭Randycove


    here we go. More of the “it’s all the Jews fault” rubbish.
    it isn’t surprising that anti semitism is on the increase in the UK when people are so keen to blame Jewish people for everything they disagree with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,736 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    For the record, you're the one who is bringing "the Jews" in to the discussion.

    We've all been paying attention these past 3 years (and longer). You can no longer ignore what has been done, and continues to be done in the name of Zionism and not saying anything just so as to avoid upsetting people who think they have the right to inflict harm on others just because they themselves suffered in the past.

    Antisemitism is not some catch all term that both absolves people from doing to others what they themselves suffered, and prevents others from calling out the perpetrators who act in this way. That day has gone. Shame on people who try to shield supporters of Israel's actions in this way.

    It's an insult to the memory of those who suffered in the past and particularly those who wrote "Never Again" to not use every opportunity now to reign in Israel's destructive mindset.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,438 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Lying in the House is not against the rules. Calling someone a liar most definitely is. I know how stupid that is but that's how things are.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,961 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Whether Starmer is lying or not, this is all looking very, very, bad for him. His statements have made him sound rather ridiculous but, TBH, I wasn't expecting much better other than "I didn't know, pinky swear" and then someone else being thrown under the bus.

    If this were a one off incident, I don't think anyone would care all that much. But it comes on the back of too many incidents to number at this point where he's made himself either look too aloof, all at sea, incompetent or even just downright dodgy.

    But his approval of Mandy in the first place was a red flag and coupled with Starmer's endorsement of him just before he got the bullet only made things worse. Now there's this fiasco.

    There's something very sick at the heart of Keir Starmer's Labour Party and having the likes of Mandelson and his protege Morgan McSweeney amongst their ranks in the first place should have had everyone raising their eyebrows. Those bastards are snakes.

    Really, I think he should just give a date of resignation at this point because he's at the centre of Labour's appalling polling numbers. But the problem there is who is there to take over? Wes Streeting? Jesus, that's going from bad to worse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,683 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,736 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I'd say since about 6 months after the election in 2024, it was clear that Starmer would not lead Labour in to the next one.

    That has never looked like changing, all that has come up time and again is whether or he would go sooner rather than later. I've always thought he would be kept until this years local elections because it has looked for at least 12 months that Labour can expect a hiding there and no incoming leader would want to take that defeat on board early in their term.

    Starmer has had a reprieve recently mostly because Trump's actions in the Middle East became all but unsupportable but that reprieve never looked like actually flipping things around that he might be seen as a longer term option.

    When he actually does go will depend on the extent of the beating they may get in the elections and the eagerness for potential candidates to have him continue to take the flack for the Mandelson affair (some such as Streeting have their own ties to him) etc.

    I suspect he won't be PM by the end of the year.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,955 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The original sin of appointing Mandelson remains (even if I understand the logic of it, it was a bad decision) but Robbins' evidence basically entirely backs up Starmer.

    This will blow over but he will remain in a surprisingly weak position. He is not using his massive majority well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,864 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It's only a big issue because Mandelson is such an incredibly weird person who is a consistent headline grabber much like Cummings was and also because Starmer was already in a weak position after so many poor moments and gaffs.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,438 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I'm inclined to agree with this.

    This government seems hell bent on taking the pain that comes with pushing change without any kind of real change whatsoever.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭Randycove


    Zionist has simply become the term the left use to spread the same conspiracy theories they used to about Jews, but just use the term to try and sound like they aren’t bigoted. Whether or not Hoyle supports the state of Israel or not is irrelevant. Calling someone a bare faced liar in parliament is very much against the rules and it is the speakers job to enforce the rules. He gave Sultana a chance to withdraw her statement and she refused, so he had no choice but to name her.
    but I guess the rules were written by the Jewish/zionist/lizard people to stop people like Sultana from speaking their minds



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,438 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I agree. The incessant drivel I see portraying Starmer as a Zionist puppet corroborates this.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Why are you saying that wonderful Jews like Chomsky and Finkelstein have anything to do with the supremacist ideology of Zionism?

    You are engaging in anti-semitism wrote large.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Those bastards are snakes

    As is Starmer.

    Unfortunately, the Labour party in Britain no longer stands for much. In that, it's similar to the Democratic party in the US, they have both been taken over by a group of people who are only interested in their personal careers. This has made it possible for Zionism to come to control them to a large degree.

    Curiously, there is more of a chance that the US Democrats will restructure than the Brit Labour party will. IMO we are a tipping point in Britain, as happened in the 1920s when the Liberal party was replaced by the Labour party, only this time it will be the Green Party coming to the fore, as it has more of a soul than Starmer, Blair and their cohorts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,438 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Would this be the same Chomsky who was close with Epstein? Why was he wonderful?

    This is a perfect example of antisemitism, honestly.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    I'm not sure how you can write this.

    He has played an extremely important role in Israel's wars over the last year and a half.

    Most recently, he has provided the launching pad for the US attacks on Iran.

    He has also provided backup to Israel in the form of the UK bases in Cyprus, while apparently provi¡ding them with intelligence in the destruction and murder in Gaza and Lebanon.

    Then again, having reviewed what I just wrote in the light of your comment - maybe you are right. Maybe he isn't a puppet, but a very willing participant in genocide, war crimes, mass murder and massive destruction. Like his mentor Blair, who seems to have a great hatred for the Arab and Islamic worlds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,438 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    He has played an extremely important role in Israel's wars over the last year and a half.

    Prove it.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    If you are unaware of Chomsky's intellectual achievements over a period of decades, you must have been living under a rock all your life. He has had no intellectual peer in the Western world in the last forty years or more.

    Regarding his relationship with Epstein, I'm not privy to how it worked, but I could make an educated guess that Epstein's handlers were very interested in compromising him, and that it was initiated by Epstein rather than by Chomsky.

    I clearly remember an email published a couple of months back where Chomsky turned down an invitation to Epstein's island, where he said he would have to "fantasise" about it - i.e. "I'm not going there", or in less polite words politely fúck off.

    Just imagine how enormous a coup it would have been to get Chomsky to the island, and photograph him in a compromising position with some young woman - but that's a trap he was too canny to fall into. We know Epstein was very persuasive, so it is hardly surprising that there was a longterm attempt at drawing Chomsky into his web - and he partially managed to do so. It is to Chomsky's credit that it went no further than it did; but given that he published a book called Understanding Power, it is likely that he was wary of Greeks bearing Gifts, so to speak.

    Regarding your second comment "honestly" you have clearly swallowed the zionist pill regarding it being the same as Judaism; which makes you the anti-semite for conflating a genocidal political project with a religion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,438 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It's funny how you, instead of detailing these alleged achievements, respond with a snide comment. It's not convincing.

    Chomsky knew Epstein's favourite dessert. Nobody who was close friends with that monster is someone I will ever respect.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,683 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    You choose to make zionist = jew, not me. I can safely assume you also choose to make Israel = jew.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭Randycove


    this is more conspiracy nonsense. The UK didn’t contribute in anyway to Israel’s crimes in Gaza, let alone play an “Important Role”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,736 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Both of you might have a point if we haven't all been watching the behaviour of western politicians and institutions for the last 3 years now and how they have been supportive (tacit and direct) of the actions of Israel.

    But we have been watching and people playing the antisemitism card in an attempt to deflect entirely at disagreement at how people who lead and influence our societies has long lost any merit it once justifiably held.

    No, it flew intelligence flights over Gaza for 2 years and kept that information entirely to itself.

    And as we have been discussing Hoyle, 10% of MP's signed a letter requesting he resign after he broke parliamentary procedures to help scupper an SNP vote on Gaza. If he in particular insisted on remaining impartial then he shouldn't have taken himself off to visit Israel while they were actively carrying out a genocide.

    Some people are never going to acknowledge the favourable support the levers of power have provided to the Zionist ideal, that doesn't mean it should be stopped being pointed out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭Randycove


    The RAF were searching for hostages, they made that very clear.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,014 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Bang on cue, the spoofer is on about his favourite subject yet again. That is twice in a couple of days he has posted about "anti-Semitism"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,014 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,736 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Sure that was it.

    Was it the 200 Israeli hostages, or the 5K Palestinian ones they were looking for?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,955 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I particularly enjoyed Starmer's famously Zionist move of recognising the Palestinian State.

    You don't like him. Fine. There are a great many reasons to have issues with him, but devolving everything into a Zionist plot is, beyond anything else, mentally unhealthy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,438 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I'm guessing anyone who thinks that the state of Israel should exist is also a Zionist.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,961 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    For many so called "zionists" the definition of Israel's existence changes considerably. Benjamin Netanyahu is a committed zionist. One who wrote…

    "In the next war, if we do it right, we'll have a chance to get all the Arabs out ... We can clear the West Bank, sort out Jerusalem"

    It's that type of "zionism" that any right thinking person should be adamantly opposing.



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