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Farm energy in changed times

12467

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Jb1989




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,062 ✭✭✭✭_Brian




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,662 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Be a while before hydrogen becomes practical, it's not easy to contain and transport it due to the temperature and pressure, seen tankers bringing it to Intel, the trailers carried approximately 3 tonnes and the trailer tare weight was about 21 tonnes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,062 ✭✭✭✭_Brian




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,662 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    In favour of hydrogen it has around 3 times the energy density of diesel and petrol



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭JVince


    I follow refining margins and have subscriptions to sites that give the live commodity pricing of various distillates.

    As most diesel for Ireland is currently coming from Finland and other Scandinavian countries, it does take 4-5 days to start feeding into pricing here.

    Further drops in refining margins and oil prices today will see even further reductions towards the end of next week.

    In the middle east there are over 400 oil carrying tankers ready to leave. They have a mix of crude oil and refined distillates - mostly heavy fuels like diesel, kerosene and jet fuel.

    Once that starts to get released prices will plummet - question is when this will happen rather than if.

    So I would not be buying any large quantities just yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,195 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Biogas for tractors is where it should be at. Made on farm in a small biogas reactor tank. But that'd ruin business for fuel makers and revenue from same for those and government. So they aren't being developed. When the gas is cleaned it's basically a big petrol engine with gas tank attached on a tractor. It's not that far back in history when there was petrol tractors.

    Small scale there's households making their own gas with a setup like the MyGugs and those then cleaning it and compressing that in tanks and using it in petrol electric generators.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,694 ✭✭✭TinyMuffin


    I have a barrel of water here. If I could get my hands on some enriched uranium and put it into it to make steam. I could use it to power my engine. Just need to keep the water topped up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭almostover


    I hear the new Ayatollah has plenty of the stuff if you're stuck for some



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Danny healy ray


    they should be a little key on the side of the tractor and you winde it up to tension up a spring and work away then for the day !



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,062 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    there was some steam blown off in that protest thread… would have powered a small town.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,936 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Thanks, that'll put a lot of minds to rest, though where were u last week when I had to listen to dino juice n battery tractors!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭JVince


    I usually post on the home heat thread.

    Its a pity organisations like the IFA or ITGA don't put some effort into understanding how prices move. Its relatively easy and a website banner or a weekly email would be of immense help especially when there is volatility. They do it in Portugal

    The only elements that change frequently are - Oil Price, Refining price and Exchange rate. Oil price change takes about 7-10 days to feed in whereas refining price change takes 4-5 days to feed in. On Feb 21st, the refining margin for diesel was $22 per barrel (159 litres), it gradually increased that week to $35 just before trump started his war and then went higher and higher. On April 2nd this had hit a high of $93 - approx 39c (euro) difference from Feb 21st. Exchange rate was $1.15

    Add oil price change from $68 to $114, that's 24c (euro). Total 63c price increase excl vat from end Feb to early April.

    Oil is now hovering at $95 today, refining is at $55, exchange rate is 1.17. About 35c higher than Feb but 28c lower than the peak last week. Forecourts didn't represent the full peak, hence I reckon about 20-25c drop (ex vat) and excluding any duty reductions. This will happen over the next week or so (likely in 3 movements)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭emaherx


    There is nothing like a crisis to push further development of the alternatives. I think we are in a better situation than previous oil shocks thanks to the renewables that we have working. They might not fill our tractors yet but at least they removed some of the competition for fuel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,062 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Slowly gathering bits of junk together to have a go at a tiny hydro system on the farm.
    my dream is the supplement my solar over the months daylight is low.
    If I add a few more panels, some battery capacity and a bit from hydro I might get to cost neutral on our electric.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭emaherx


    What have you got now?
    Battery could add a lot by itself, you can buy night rate from electricity from 5.99c and sell back unused power at upto 25c (at the moment anyway, I'm sure prices will change soon). But we all want to see you DIY hydro anyway!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭older by the day


    I applied for the solar, but hydro is what would be perfect, there is a stream actually within a few metres of the milking parlour.

    Ireland is made for hydro you would think



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭emaherx


    If you've a reliable constant flow, you'd imagine Ireland would be perfect, but regulations are much harder to get around than with solar/wind. You need permission as there are no hydro exemptions, if you plan on going grid tied, you'll be dealing with ESB networks the EPA and the council.

    You may fly under the radar at real micro scale but anything substantial sounds like a real pain in the ass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,062 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    The other option I’m exploring for the hydro is to charge 10kw battery and run a mini split heat pump. It should provide heating for the main part of the house.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,062 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    6.5kw split between W and E roof.
    Looking to add another ~2kw due south facing but it will be ground mounted.
    10kw battery arriving tomorrow and depending on how that goes maybe another 10kw next year.
    I’m at the stage to be preparing energy neutral for retirements coming down the line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall


    On the hydro it's all about force. You would run a very simple system if you had enough of a head of water and a 2inch pipe. That would eliminate planning issues. A full 4 inch pipe would need 1/4 of the head of water



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Silverdream


    Anyone go for a ground mount system? I have got a few quotes but in all fairness they are ludicrous, like 20K for a 5kw system. I've since investigated doing the work myself and getting an electrician to wire it up after. I can buy this setup https://solarboss.ie/products/off-grid-kit-2-sunsynk-5kw-inverter-10kwh-battery-storage?variant=51021327434057&country=IE&currency=EUR&srsltid=AfmBOooisx_FNNTTSvu4ed4-npgRgYJ8RTyOuM0a3ElR8lCAZAawxEfUgpM for 6.5k



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Seems steep, is it just panels or with battery?

    I did get a price of around 12K for ground mount about 2 years ago, but ended up installing on roof of house + detached garage with battery for similar price to the ground mount system by itself 2 weeks ago.

    For 20K you could build yourself a little shed or pergola thing and have them mount the panels on it?

    Edit: Actually here is the cost of the rooftop system.
    You can get it cheaper, do the work and just have the electrician hook it up, but you won't get the grant and there is a lot to be said for them comming installing in a day and sorting out all certification and paerwork.

    System Components – Eco Premium Package

    • 16 x 460W JINKO Neo Tiger Solar PanelsIncludes a 25-year manufacturer’s warranty
    • EcoFlow 5kw Hybrid Inverter 15-year manufacturer’s warranty
    • EcoFlow 10kw battery storage 
    • 15-year manufacturer’s warranty
    • Van De Valk Flat Roof Kit 
    • Full labour and professional installation
    • Online system monitoring Track your energy generation and usage in real time
    • BER (Building Energy Rating) Assessment
    • NC6 Form submission
      Required for ESB Networks to register microgeneration systems
    • SEAI Grant Application Paperwork
    • 2-Year workmanship guaranteeCovers all installation services

    - Pricing Summary

    Description

    Amount

    Total System Price

      €12,850.00

    SEAI Grant Contribution

      €1,800.00

    Final Payable Amount 

      €11,050.00



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭older by the day


    Hi, im getting over 9kw and the battery, for 15k plus vat

    You need to price around,

    If you want to pm, il send you the quote for comparison



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,936 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Anyone buy the panels and fit themselves? Fella was telling me they are as cheap as a sheet of marine ply now. I'd be fitting to a corrugated roof so no bollixing lifting slates etc.

    Had a young lad working for me before n almost qualified as a spark now who could wire in for me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,062 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    you need to get the Nc6 (I think) signed off so you can send back to the grid and get paid. I think without the export tarrif the payback stretches wayyyy out.
    no getting a registered installer will make getting that very hard.

    Installation of the panels isn’t that technical at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭emaherx


    I don't think you need a registered solar installer for NC6, but you do to avail of grant.

    RECI needed for inverter installation.

    Panels are cheap, mounting hardware, inverter batteries, cabling EPO and rapid shutdown equipment all adds up though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,936 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Cheers folks, I wouldn't bother with grant but would like to sell the excess. I ask the spark if he's done any already n was it much hassle.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,614 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    One advantage of doing solar without a grant is you own the carbon credits not the government so you can trade them

    Slava Ukrainii



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