Fuel Protest (Read MOD NOTE on first post)

It's because previously anytime farmers and hauliers held a protest they usually went home, so FFG always treated them with kid gloves.

Then on the other hand they're too scared to face down the social media giants with EU headquaters in Ireland, but if they don't there's no other way to rewin their grassroots from the AI slop peddling far right interlopers.

Absolutely. You can see the level of personal abuse levelled at the protesters throughout this thread.

Thing is, if all of those people protesting downed tools tomorrow the country would be on its knees in under a week.

Road protests would be the least of the publics worry then.

Absolutely it should be getting more coverage. This is the same party that called SF's pledge to monitor media balance in relation to Gaza 'chilling' during the last GE.

Patrick O'Donovan is a fool. Far too many times he's gone off on a solo run and made himself, and his party, look like idiots.

The leadership of the protesters, or at least the useful idiots presented as the leaders, are fairly awful representatives of this dispute but there's no need to paint all these people with the one brush.

I come from a rural area and would know lots of men who make their living driving machines be it agriculture, forestry, construction, transport etc.

Take a regular agricultural contractor with a silage crew; mower, harvester, 4 tractor and trailers, loader for pit plus support vehicle.

Middle of the road tractors working 20hrs per day will burn 250l, many burn more. Very conservative estimate for peak season of 2000L per day or 14000L per week.

Even the cash flow effect of increased Vat from increased fuel prices is very very significant.

Tractors are going to cost between 100-200k.

Run the numbers on repayments and then factor in the huge variance in busy slack periods over the year and you get an idea of that source of stress.

Then go collect of farmers. That's never quick and modern dairy men will often pay you monthly for maybe six months.

These protesters, certainly in agriculture and haulage sectors work on very tight margins and extreme stress.

We all benefit from their work in terms of food prices.

Prior to any fuel crisis I would have wondered why do they bother. It's often driven by a love of machines.

For example I know a man with a good job in a pharma technical role; good work conditions, pay pensions etc. He took 3 weeks off every early summer to work with a silage crew. Doesn't say much for corporate culture.

Who took a career break to drive machines in USA.

That is the type for the most part in the recent protests. They are not all cnuts lik leaders.

They overstepped the mark, in particular with refinery and fuel infrastructure, but we could all do being a bit calmer.

The irony of course is that the very contractors & hauliers standing shoulder to shoulder committing crimes last week have been undercutting the hell out of each other to gain work for many years.

Why would a business take on a fixed price contract when one of the highest overheads is a variable cost?

Its been a race to the bottom for some.

Threw a few questions at Gemini earlier for some figures and feedback to try and get my head around the whole thing. I think this is accurate and based on this I think further protests are unwarranted. With the Govt taking less now than 6 weeks ago in taxes but all of us paying more, how can we keep heaping blame on them, given that 6 weeks go there was no grumbling about fuel prices?

I will say they were slow to move and should have been more proactive, but they are a generally useless shower so….. 🤷‍♂️

This is all based on diesel at €1.74 6 weeks ago VS Diesel at €2.14 recently with an assumed 10c drop from the excise cut to calculate at €2.04 today.

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Based on our analysis of the fuel crisis in Ireland over the last six weeks, the situation has shifted from a stable market to a high-volatility environment driven by global supply shocks.

While the "sticker price" at the pump has risen by 30c (after today's 10c excise cut), the impact varies significantly depending on whether you are a private motorist or a commercial operator.

1. The Cost Reality: Who is paying what?

The 40c surge in the market price of diesel has been partially absorbed for businesses by increased government rebates and the natural "buffer" of VAT reclaims.

Net Cost per Litre (What you actually pay)

2. The Government's Take: Windfall or Loss?

A central point of the current debate is whether the state is "profiteering." The data shows that while the government gained a VAT windfall when prices peaked, today’s 10c excise cut means they are now taking less tax per litre than they were six weeks ago.

Government Net Revenue per Litre

3. Key Findings & Conclusions

• Market vs. Tax: The current crisis is almost entirely driven by a 33c increase in the "naked" cost of fuel (oil/refining). The government has actually reduced its tax take across all categories to try and dampen the blow.
• The Haulage Safety Net: Because hauliers can reclaim VAT and a newly increased Diesel Rebate (12c), the government now collects only 52.9c in tax from them—the lowest net take in recent history.
• The Cash Flow Trap: Even though businesses get tax back, they must pay the full €2.04 upfront. This creates a massive cash-flow burden that threatens the existence of firms with small cash reserves.
• Joe Public's Burden: Private motorists are the most exposed. They have no rebate or reclaim system, meaning they are absorbing the full 30c increase directly from their disposable income.

The real workers kept working though.

Decisions such as the Children's Hospital are the bike shed are not made by one person at one point in time. If you believe that and assign blame accordingly as you are doing, you clearly don't understand how government and the public service work.

There are a lot of people to blame for the bike shed - every political party represented on the Oireachtas committee that recommended it, especially the particular politicians involved - and there are an awful lot of people to blame for the Children's Hospital, including those responsible for procurement rules, as well as the contractor appointed.

These guys don't work with their hands. They drive trucks and tractors, no particular skill required in that. They are not highly skilled like carpenters, bricklayers, electricians etc.

In fairness, it's not that simple. I grew up farming and spent my childhood doing farm work. It might look like simple driving but there's more to it than that, as with any job. I remember my Dad, a man who spent his whole life in farming, telecoms and construction talking once about how operating a digger was something only a small amount of people could do. It's something we hired out a few times and it's obvious why if you're a farmer.

That said, the real men were working. They don't have time to sit idling on O'Connell Street while posting drivel on social media.

I remember him talking about Garrett Fitzgerald, the greatest leader FG ever had (certainly the only one I felt FF members gave some respect to), someone you'd think he'd idolise, and the way he talked about him, 'the man with the grey hair', was akin to that bit of that Jack Charlton tribute show where they have Father Ted and Dougal come on, and Dougal's talking about Charlton thinking he is John West.

I think you aware actually well aware that that is nonsense. The involvement of the army reflects both the inadequate numbers in the Gardai and its history as a civic police force. Most european countries have either separate police forces or special divisions within the regular police command for situations like occurred last week. These can provide reinforcements for mass protest situations and securing vital infrastructure. Watch the response of the Gendarmarie in France for instance (whatever shade of administration is in power). I agree that we have to develop the specialist policing capacity so as not to require the back-up of the army.