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Ireland vs Israel - To play or not to play, that is the question Read OP for Mod Warning

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,217 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    The thread is about the principle of whether Ireland should play Israel in a soccer game. I think it's fair game that the discussion includes examples of the behaviour of the participants. And yes, that most certainly includes murdering children and innocent civilians in the most brutal ways.

    Stifling that aspect of the debate would seem be an indicator either of tacit support for such depravity, a "discomfort" felt for the position held or simply just waving it away and turning a blind eye through any lack of compassion.

    It's interesting that the FAI do not want to get involved, and I can see their point. But that's not what interests me - the Ireland manager is on the record as stating he would support any and all players excusing themselves from the game - the FAI have not censured him.

    That all said, unless FIFA ban Israel, a decision needs to be made - can the FAI accept the punishment or should they accede and let the game go ahead thus avoiding any negative consequences (other than the possibility of Israeli fans singing their disgusting racist chants and displaying their usual thuggery).

    What would your position be if Russia had not been banned and Ireland were drawn to play them? Would you still be saying "it's not about dead children"?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Whats ugly about people who have bills to pay, mouths to feed, rent or a mortgage to keep a roof over their (family) head expecting to be paid every week/fortnight/month so that they can do just that.

    Again, nobody has said "look the other way". Continual misrepresentation again

    The real world is very different to the idealistic way you want the world to be.

    So if the FAI boycott the games, lose out on €10-15m as an absolute minimum, and maybe much more, and cannot pay their staff, who then struggle to pay utility bills heading into winter, cannot afford rent so face eviction, or miss a mortgage repayment etc, is that not important to those people who may face that reality?

    Israel/Gaza and Russia/Ukraine achieved a combined 7% in the most recent poll published at the weekend. Cost of living and housing by far the biggest concern/priority. The employees of the FAI are no different to the rest of us, the same bills, the same rent/mortgages etc.

    1000009661.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,056 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Explain why you think it's not about religion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,765 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    A poster made a post about an employee of the FAI which is the topic of the thread.

    Another poster brought up that poster not caring about murdered children.

    That posters thoughts on murdered children has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

    I am glad Russia are banned and think Israel should also be banned.

    If Russia were not banned then I would expect us to play them.

    Israel are not banned and I am glad that we are playing them.

    I am an Irish football fan and I don't want to bankrupt us and get us banned.

    I don't want Irish people to lose a job.

    Especially when refusing to play harms Ireland and does nothing for Palestine people.

    If someone wants to tell me what refusing to play is guaranteed to do positively then I could take that into account.

    I have yet to see anyone outline that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,765 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Are you an FAI employee who is likely to lose their job if we refuse to play the games?

    Would you be happy to lose your job for no reason?

    If not why do you think other people should possibly lose their jobs for the crime of being an employee of the FAI?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,056 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    The football and the Israeli murders of children are inextricably linked. There is no separation in it. It comes down to the choice of normalising genocide or not. It is that simple.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,765 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    You thought Ireland had to qualify for the nations league.

    You have no idea or interest in Irish football.

    Ireland playing or refusing to play is not going to save any children.

    If you have concrete evidence saying otherwise please post it for me to review.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,056 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    You can't save dead children. Too late for that. However you can make a stance against the people who did the murdering.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,217 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Yes, I do understand the topic of the thread - the title kinda gives it away - but I disagree that it is specifically about the FAI.

    I am most certainly not "glad" that Ireland is playing Israel. It is disappointing that FIFA and UEFA have not banned Israel - but then they've also given a peace prize to a madman who just today threatened genocide on 90 million people. It is they who are the disgrace. Not the Ireland team, not the FAI and not Ireland fans.

    And yes of course, the FAI have a duty to their employees so we are in agreement there. But "protesting" certainly does do something for the Palestinians. It shows at least solidarity - as many have done over the years. And don't forget, Palestine also plays football. Don't they deserve support?

    The FAI are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Should the game go ahead, Irish fans should respectfully vent their anger at Israel's behaviour - if any of their fans are allowed attend of course.

    Currently, there appears to be nothing positive should Ireland refuse to play. If some other nations offered to support the FAI that would be a start in pressuring FIFA to do the right thing and give Israel the red card for war crimes and Genocide.

    Until then, the game is going ahead. I've mixed feelings about that but I'm not an FAI employee and as others have rightly argued, I don't think I have the right to deprive them in any way because of my views.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    And there is nothing the FAI can do about the Israel actions in Gaza or anywhere else. Absolutely nothing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,765 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    What is the stance going to achieve.

    Here is a list of what I can confirm will be achieved.

    We will be banned from international football.

    Israel will be gifted 6 points making the group easier for them.

    Massive job losses for the FAI.

    The league of Ireland will be ruined.

    The pathway to professional football will be hampered for young kids.

    You fill in the rest of guaranteed outcomes and we can weigh up the pros and cons.

    I don't want more talk of dead children and virtue signalling.

    I want a list of guaranteed outcomes to justify your position.

    That is what this thread is for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,056 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    They can take a stance and do the right thing. Not normalising genocide. Even the worst prisoners in Mountjoy won't tolerate child abusers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,765 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Fair enough and we are more in agreement than not.

    In an ideal world they would be banned and we wouldn't have to play.

    The best we can do is peacefully protest and beat them on the pitch.

    I believe we have already stated to Uefa that they should be banned, but UEFA or no other country have talked about taking action.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,056 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    There is only one thing that matters and that is calling out their genocide by refusing to play against them. The rest of your post is just a straw man.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    The FAI did make a stance. They put forward a motion to UEFA to ban israel and got no support. None. Nada. Zero, zilch.

    So yeah FAI, let's bankrupt ourselves, take out the AK47 and unload it onto both feet and put hundreds of jobs at risk. All four some virtue signalling ideology



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,765 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Okay so as expected you can't list out anything positive that will be achieved, yet cause me of straw manning.

    You would happily see Irish soccer destroyed and people losing their jobs in a cost of living crisis and possibly their homes.

    You have proven you have no interest in football so I can see why you would have no problem with destroying it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,793 ✭✭✭csirl


    Can you explain this please?

    The Israeli FA is a members club that is independent from the Israeli government. It has no role in anything happening in Gaza etcl



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    So, it's perfectly possible for several things to matter at the same time and for each of those positions taken to be correct. So the "only one thing that matters" statement is complete and utter tripe.

    An employee of the FAI can be appalled by the situation in Gaza but at the same time wish for the game to go ahead because like the rest of us they have the same bills to pay etx and a time of such uncertainty in the world, cost of living, housing, the middle east etc, keeping their jobs and maintaining a livelihood is also important.

    And as the poll shows, Irish people dont rate the GAZA/ISRAEL situation high on the agenda of concerns.

    Last time I checked airtricity etc accept money

    as payment, likewise my mortgage provider has this ridiculous idea that I give them money every month and not solidarity with Palestine. And dont get me started on tesco and supervalu who refuse to accept virtue signalling in exchange for food.

    So I have I have go to work every day to make all those payments and that is more important to me then anythingnelse going on in the world including Gaza, Ukraine and anything else happening that I have zero influence over



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,793 ✭✭✭csirl


    Note that I dont think the Israel FA should be in UEFA. They should be playing in the Asian Confederation. Sport is all about bringing people together. Would be great if Israeli and Palestinian teams could play in the same tournaments.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,056 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    It has teams in stolen land in the West Bank and the Israeli team has and had IDF members. It has a role in Gaza and represents the Israeli state that has committed genocide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,217 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Indeed - it's difficult to understand why no more federations/associations came out in support of the FAI. That could have been a tipping point to get FIFA to do the right thing.

    Rowdy but peaceful protest and absolutely hammer them on the field of play.

    I do believe that there's a lot more agreement than disagreement on this topic but it is a very very tricky situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,056 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    It would highlight their actions that are still ongoing. More children murdered in Gaza today.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2026/0406/1566927-israel-gaza-strike/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    The right thing for the FAI is to look after their own situation, look after their own people.

    You have this very myopic view of the world. The world is not linear.

    The FAI took a stance. Nobody else wanted to know.

    The FAI bankrupting themselves for virtue signalling reasons is probably the dumbest take going



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,056 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Good God. So calling out genocide is not important now. Really??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    USA are friends of Israel

    USA are not friends of Russia.

    Its not that difficult to understand. Its political. USA have heavy links to Israel in tech and banking in particular. They, Israel, are a strategic partner of USA in Middle East.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Hardly surprising considering Israel has compulsory military service. Loads of past and present military people have represented their country in a wide variety of sports. Including some Irish athletes. In fact ireland has had members of the British armed forces represent them.

    The fact remains that the FAI can do nothing about it. Refusing to play will achieve nothing positive. I'm sure most FAI employees and Irish fans would be quite happy if UEFA banned Israel. But until that happens, refusing to play them would be pointless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Everyone is aware it's happening. Ireland refusing to play won't stop it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Russia have been banned for over four years. They murder Ukrainians everyday. That ban, and highlighting the Russian actions really showed Vladimir and made him think twice.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,217 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I think the FAI should make it clear that they are only fulfilling the fixtures under duress.

    In fairness, they tried to get FIFA to ban Israel but it fell on deaf ears and the support was others was just tumbleweed.

    I firmly believe that even if you think you have no direct influence over something, you do have a voice and that voice can be heard. When everyone speaks up, the message is deafening.

    I have bills to pay too, but I always find a few bob to hand out to charity and to others who amplify my voice.

    But I won't impose my own opinion on others who can't find that few bob or worse, could lose their job. I agree with you on that.

    But we all still have a voice - I've continuously called out Israel to anyone who would listen. Beeped support to protesters on Sligo a few weeks back. It does make a difference….



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