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US/Israel conduct airstrikes on Iran again

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    But if whoever started the conflict is responsible for whatever follows, then that is on Hamas. If you think that's not the case then the Iranians are responsible for their actions in the conflict, irrespective of the fact that it was started by the US/Israel. It's one or the other if you're going to be consistent. Which is it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    Thanks (I was asking a genuine question, so that's appreciated)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    Iran are responsible for their action in this war as are Israel and the IDF for the genocide they've committed in Gaza, wouldn't you agree?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,851 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    I don't think people appreciate the fact that the Geneva convention and indeed major parts of International Humanitarian law are all but dead.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    To be fair, this is the key phrase in that clause

    for the specific purpose of denying them for their sustenance value to the civilian population

    It is what makes it a far more complicated question legally, if not morally.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,360 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    Just because the US and Israel ignore it? That's nice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,742 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,219 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I am not sure what point you are trying to make. All parties are responsible for their actions when it comes to IHL and for protecting the civilian population. It doesn't matter who started it.

    Israel should not have committed war crimes or breached IHL repeatedly because of the Hamas atrocities on Oct 7th irrespective of the fact Hamas started it.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,851 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    How exactly is any of it enforced? Surely you can see if the US aren't big on these laws (which they aren't currently for numerous reasons) they won't be enforced - no enforcement means no one sticks to the rules……Certain countries haven't been sticking the the rules for years now.

    The US are the main reason these laws exist and have been generally somewhat enforced over the decades but they have very obviously no issues ignoring them when suits.

    BTW, I amn't saying that any of this is good - just the opposite in fact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,360 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    So the US is responsible for the oil crisis that is going to decimate the world's economies. And Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine is responsible for October 7th. Glad that's cleared up.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,851 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    This is well worth a watch:

    Am sure a good few here have been following this guy but the predictions he is making are concerning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,889 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Civilian infrastructure is protected under international war - Private companies should not be intermingling defence and military activities with civilian activities if they do not want to become targets. This is why armies have their own logistics and don't just order uber eats for the army, its why soldiers are supposed to stay in military barracks or encampments and not stay in civilian areas or hotels while on active duty. Active duty combatants are legitimate targets in a war.

    (there are distinctions for those who are opposing an occupation, who are permitted to use geurilla tactics as part of their right to resist occupation)


    Ultimately, don't go to **** war because doing this means the other side will defend itself by doing whatever it takes to disrupt your economy, supply lines etc

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,889 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Hamas didn't start a war. They already were under occupation by Israel. They conducted a raid during an ongoing conflict. Their aim was to get hostages to exchange for some of the other hostages Israel had already been holding because of the Existing conflict. In that raid hundreds of civillians were killed by Hamas, and hundreds more killed by the IDF as they executed the Hannibal Directive to prevent the capture of hostages.

    This week, we are witnessing the attempts of Israeli extremists to order the mass execution of all 10,000 palestinian prisoners of war.
    You can't just keep changing the definitions of things to conflate different events as if they are the same.


    America and Israel unilaterally attacked Iran in a sneak attack (illegal) while there were ongoing negotiations to avoid armed conflict (illegal) and they used the cover of the negotiations to get the entire leadership of Iran into one place so they could be killed in one strike. (Illegal)

    They did not need to go to war to achieve any Legitimate objectives. There was zero imminent threat from Iran, the war is 100% the fault of Israel and America and no gas lighting will change that fact.

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,889 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Laws of war don't prevent war crimes, but they are supposed to be a limit on the extremes that powers will go to in the course of a war. The laws of war are applied retrospectively. When all this is over, we would hope that the people who committed genocide in Gaza and were involved in starting this war in Iran will be held accountable for their crimes.

    America has never allowed any citizens to be held accountable for any of their war crimes, but they're in the middle of collapsing their own empire so there might be some kind of internal reckoning over the coming few years whatever happens.

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,531 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    You'd swear that there are people on here that had never even heard of the Gaza strip before October 7th 2023.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,360 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    Oil going through the roof today. Unless there's big profit taking this afternoon, traders are pricing in some form of major attack/ground invasion over the weekend. Looks like Iran is preparing for it too: Ghalibaf says seven million are ready to fight.

    Even if there's profittaking, look out for that insider spike in the 30 minutes before 9pm. If it happens, this is going to devastate the global economy and Trump knows it. Maybe this was all planned in advance of the theft of Venezuela's reserve.

    Every previous oil crisis resulted in an severe Irish recession. This one will dwarf those. Europe did nothing to stop that madman.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭Sigma101


    "Europe did nothing to stop that madman."

    What's Europe? What do you expect "Europe" to do?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,089 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    Jesus, they went in Guns blazng to a music concert. The killed anything that moved basically.

    I take your point on the occupation and agree on a lot of your post, but basically that action started a genocide that has shaped the greatest loss of life in decades in that part of the world. How anyone thought Israel were going to soak up what happened and accept it and just hand over prisoners is beyond comprehension. They were basically handed a free rein to start what they probably were wanting to do in decades. Hamas are/were murderous in the extreme and no actions Israel has done can or will change that. Israel are the same, the difference is that they can sustain it. Hamas can't or couldn't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,531 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    "But Hamas…" ceased to be an excuse when the world saw Israel's genocidal campaign in Gaza. Hamas was and is no excuse for the criminality of the Israelis and the destruction and murder they wreaked upon the people of the Gaza strip. They destroyed everything and had no compunction in murdering anyone in their way, including reporters, medical staff, doctors, humanitarian aid workers, refugees, children and a whole host of other innocents.

    Israel is responsible for what THEY did in Gaza, nobody else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,360 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    Europe is what's left of Nato when the rogue nation leaves, if you want call it the 'coalition of the willing'. They could've done more than be 'concerned'. Instead they appeased like another madman was appeased during the 30s. It's European economies that will be most affected by the actions of the US and Israel. That's the prices you pay to put fuel in your car, heat your home, feed your children, and whether or not your job is on the line in the coming recession.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,089 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    I'm not saying anything different.

    But like it or not they undertook what they did in oct 23. They didn't go in and say let's go now nice Israelis, we need a few hostages so we can get some our buddy's back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,620 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Also, when you see just how violent and extreme the Israeli state is, the existence of a Hamas or a Hezbollah should hardly come as a surprise to anyone. That's not seeking to justify their existence or any time where they have killed innocent civilians, but their existence is very predictable - it's obvious that an incredibly violent state would be met with violence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,219 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,889 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If they killed everything that moved, how did they capture 251 hostages

    We all know the narrative.
    The narrative is that they snuck across the border, did a cowardly attack against an unarmed music festival slaughtering everyone and decapitating babies.

    If it was just an attack on a purely civilian music festival, how did 373 Israeli security personnel get killed… (because the raid targeted military bases primarily, and then spilled into the music festival where a lot of people ended up getting killed (by both Hamas and IDF fire)

    image.png

    766 civilians were killed that day. We don't know how many were killed by Hamas and how many were killed by the IDF. Lots of the injuries amongst the dead civilians were consistent with tank and helicopter fire. We'll never know who actually killed these people because Israel refuse to have an investigation. I wonder why

    image.png

    From Haaretz

    IDF Ordered Hannibal Directive on October 7 to Prevent Hamas Taking Soldiers Captive - Israel News

    image.png



    Israel used October 7 as an excuse to do what they wanted to do anyway. The road to hell is paved with genocidal countries using any pretext they can find to do the things they were already fully intent on doing.

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    One of the indications on Polymarket that a ground invasion is planned? Gay bars are empty 😂

    🌞6.02kWp⚡️3.01kWp South/East⚡️3.01kWp West



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,089 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    If you can find it in your heart to forgive and excuse 756 civilians casualties or 1 for that matter on a raid of murderous intent on a side you support, then it's easy enough to see how Israelis can excuse any number of deaths in retaliation.

    I as much as wrote your last paragraph in my post. We don't disagree on much. But Hamas were and are as bad as the Israelis. If you think differently, we won't agree on that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,891 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    I don't know much about it but I just noticed that WTI Crude Oil price is now higher than Brent Crude Oil price

    That hasn't happened since 2011 I think?

    WTI is essentially the US domestic supply and Brent Crude is the global benchmark

    It suggests that demand is higher now for US oil…..but overall this doesn't seem like a good thing, anyone know more?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭yagan


    Untitled Image

    I do think there is always something of which of his sycophants had his ear last usually influencing what comes out of his mouth, but last night just seemed to be just Trump riffing without regard for any covert strategies.

    Why talk about others taking over Hormuz if they want he oil, and then still talk about hanging around for a few weeks.

    It does look like he while he wants to just walk away he probably has his fathers voice in his head calling him a fool.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,441 ✭✭✭brickster69


    The UN Security Council votes shortly on a resolution authorizing military force to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. The GCC is putting together a coallition of European and Asian countries to take part.

    The resolution was drafted by Bahrain and has the support of Gulf Arab states.

    It would give countries legal cover to use force to restore free shipping through the strait.

    The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. — Antonio Gramsci



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,386 ✭✭✭golfball37


    October 7th was allowed happen. Unless the most advanced military and spy agency in world combined with the most guarded border didn’t notice a few hundred lads on hang gliders . I’ll have whatever whoever believes that is drinking.

    It was only watching the bbc documentary on the music festival when it dawned on me. A response time of 3 hours from when IDF were notified first of the incursion in a country that small and a military so might is simply stretching credibility imo



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