US/Israel conduct airstrikes on Iran again

The main blocker was Planning. For years, Ireland simply didn’t have a proper legal/planning system to approve offshore projects. They finally passed a new act in 2021 which made it more straightforward and less risky.

Hamas

Hamas didn't start the war, they are living under a state of occupation. Occupied people have a right to resist the occupation. October 7 was not the start of the conflict, it was the excuse Israel used to wage a genocide. (and they happily murdered plenty of their own citizens on that day to ensure they had a big body count)

The correct response to October 7 would be to investigate it, identify the people who committed crimes during the raid and arrest them. It was not a legitimate justification for genocide

When will we see the investigation into what happened on October 7th?

Maybe the people who created and funded Hamas have some responsibility

Netanyahu made Hamas the leaders in Gaza because Abbas in Fatah (a secular group) was getting too much international sympathy.

Netanyahu chose Hamas because they were brutal and violent and would be seen as terrorists and this would allow Israel to crack down on the people of Gaza. He needed the terrorism to justify the oppression.

Its very very very fucked up, but it is 100% true

1,300 Lebanese killed by the IDF in the last 6 weeks alone.

I asked AI how many Israelis had been killed by Hezbollah in the last 20 years - since the blockade of Gaza started. The total was 236 for civilian and military with most coming during the 2006 Lebanon war when Israel invaded (121 military killed).

That's nothing to do with whether giving a warning is justification for attacks on civilian targets. If that is sufficient, as has been stated here, to excuse the Iranians for their attacks on civilian infrastructure, then it should equally excuse any other country attacking civilian infrastructure. Consistency is all I'd like to see here, in either direction. Hence why I asked my original question.

I don't have an issue with any of that, as long as the principles are applied consistently. In which case, Israel and the US cannot be held responsible for everything that happens in the current conflict as a consequence of their starting the current conflict (which was what the post I was replying to said), since the current conflict is just the latest episode of long-running mutual hostility. All I'm looking for here is consistency in the approach to all sides.

There have been unexpected alliances all over the place over the years. Realpolitik tends to win out when it suits.

You're discussing the motivation of the Israeli response to the Hamas attack. I personally don't think that the original plan was to to permantly occupy Gaza. I agree it was about more than "just" returning the hostages (and that returning the hostages wasn't actually the priority). They definitely intended to wipe out Hamas, whatever it took. At the time, I was thinking they would also retain a buffer zone, taken from Gaza territory, so that there would be no repeat of the attack. My guess at the time is they would try for 1 kilometre or thereabouts.

But then circumstances changed. The big change being Trump coming to power. And that changed what was possible for the lunatics in power in Israel. Almost overnight, what looked impossible was then being pretty much encouraged by Trump and his cronies, which was to take over most, if not all of the Gaza Strip.

And now we have the situation where the Yellow line is becoming the de facto demarcation of the buffer zone.

And yeah, it looks like there's an attempt in progress to create buffer zone in Lebanon.

And I personally don't think either Lebanon or Gaza are the big interest for the Israeli far right. If anything, they're a handy deflection/distraction for their behaviour in the West Bank.

There is no "defending" of Israel and its genocide - even Jews say so.

I'm going to assume that you meant to say something like "even some Israelis say so". Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

And to be clear, I'm neither defending nor condemning any of the above. I'm trying to discuss it on a factual basis.

I think that standards should be applied equally across the board. Not one rule for one country and other rules for another.

If Iran can be excused for attacking civilian targets by issuing warnings beforehand, then the same should apply to all other countries, including Israel.

If the party that stared one current war (US/Israel), which is just the latest eruption of an ongoing conflict, is to be held responsible for everything that happens in the current war because they started it, then that should equally apply to Hamas being repsonsible for everything that happened in the current Gaza war, which is just the latest eruption of an ongoing conflict.

I don't like the hypocrisy of applying different standards based on having a preferred "side", and I will point it out where I see it.

You're discussing the motivation of the Israeli response to the Hamas attack

Yes - because that's what you were discussing.

Jews worldwide - outside of Israel - have condemned Israel. Some Holocaust survivors, some Holocaust academics and specialists, some lawyers and some religious leaders. The point being that those Jews not in Israel and embroiled in the day-to-day political circus are clear that Israel is unfettered and committing atrocities - and they expressly say "not in our name". That they do it is telling.

As for "the plan", Israel has long denied a two-state solution in the face of international support for it. I believe their plan has been festering for decades and decades - extermination of the Palestinians, the obliteration of any two-state solution and the annexing of the adjacent land.

Simply go back through history - it's very easy to join the dots.

They didn't just decide this two years ago.

But they now have the means, the political will and the support (of a very stupid President of the USA) plus the reticence of other nations to call them out in order to further that plan.

Bear in mind - Israel attacked Iran first and has the US by the proverbials. Now Lebanon is Gaza II.

As for the far right, they have fully supported the Settlers who wish to settle Gaza for well over a year now.

You raise, as usual, good discussion points. Many were discussed at length over two years in the other thread. I won't tell you it's mandatory reading but there is a lot of material worth reading there on the points you make.
I also see other posts today that fill in further some of the points you make.