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Tax Advantaged Savings/Investment Accounts

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,033 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Might be best to change the thread title. It's an investment rather than a savings option.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,501 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    He's proposing nothing it's just another dictat from Europe, this is in the EU pipeline for a while, they want the money out of bank accounts to fund the green agenda and defence (or war depening on your take of the current situation).

    As with all investments they can go to 0 and i'll assume this one probably will.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,357 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Just simplify the tax on etfs.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭bored65


    Article is extremely light on details, a UK style ISA (non cash) would be great

    Dropping the stupid ETF taxation rate that’s higher than already extortionate capital gains, and deemed disposal etc 8 year (and not being able to offset loses) be even better

    The government dug themselves into a hole with some of the most punitive and bizarre investment rules in the world

    Right now I can open any number of apps on phone and buy US stocks or crypto and pay less tax on potential gains (and offset loses) and be subject to less paperwork than buying a European ETF, or buying Irish company shares (throw stamp duty on top)

    It’s backward, and that’s why hundreds of billions flow into US markets from our pensions {when not snapping up properties} and investments here in Ireland and across EU, fuelling a regime voted in by couch ****ing hillbillies that hate everything about us and supported by tech bros who want to and are actively trying to dismantle our democracies for their oligarchic vision of a future



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,501 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Wishful thinking this is to fund the dreams of the EU commission and help plug the €800 billion a year hole in the EU finances coming up as signalled by the Draghi report.

    The plan, empty peoples savings accounts.
    You won’t be buying non EU instruments with these investments.

    I’m very sceptical about this, the EU know 80% of people don’t know what to do with money in their accounts and that’s who they’re after. The rest of us will be hit with taxes on unrealised gains like the proposed laws winding their way through parliament in the Netherlands at the moment.

    If Ukraine wasn’t a thing I’d be a little less sceptical but when there’s no limit on funding to combat Russia this could end badly as some of these funds are earmarked for defence funding.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭bored65


    Just checked, 33% growth in last year in JEGI European investment trust for example

    Now it’s on LSE measured in pounds so there is that forex risk

    But still much better than US funds in last year that look great on surface until you look at Euro to usd rate in same period

    Something like JEGI style ETF but in Euro with lower capital gains and without the bizarre deemed disposable rules be great, or even better a range of options so those for example who care about environment or obsessed with crypto can put their money where their mouths are depending on their risk appetite and so on, all eu markets had a blast of a year despite the clown in the whitehouse or the gremlin in the Kremlin



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,397 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    You could be right, but so far it doesn't sound like this is what Harris is talking about.

    What's been suggested so far is providing an opportunity for the "squeezed middle" to save and invest. Harris specifically cited the Swedish model which allows Swedes to invest part of their money tax-free with no restrictions.

    If this came to pass it would be excellent for ordinary people. Lots of people I know are put off getting started in investing because it requires you to keep records and file tax returns which can be complex when only dealing with minor amounts of money. Imagine just being able to direct debit €xxx a month into your online account, auto configuring that money to go into your preferred ETF with dividends auto-reinvested. No faffing about with tax returns or balancing losses/gains to fill a tax return. Extend that to kids as well, let parents save for college for example.

    It's a serious game changer and would get a generation of young people out of bank deposits losing their value after inflation/DIRT.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭combat14


    the government will make far more money on a smaller tax rate if they can get savers to switch from 0% bank savings account to investing instead it will be a win win for all - the only losers will be the traditional banks who have raped their customers for too long



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,685 ✭✭✭valoren


    Imagine being able to buy index funds and letting your money (or your childrens money) compound over decades so that they would have a nest egg when we're older. Like having a Stock and Shares ISA with a maximum of 25k a year into a tax sheltered account. We're not a country with a culture of owning individual stocks so having Vanguardesque index funds to buy would be brilliant. Imagine grandparents giving their grandkids cash (e.g. a €50 voucher for a World fund) and then that cash compounding over decades for them. Would be a game changer and utterly stupid that it hasn't been common place all along.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,501 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    they need to hugely move inheritance thresholds, there way to penal in today’s world. If this is to encourage younger savers fair enough but anyone older the government is just getting more tax when you die.

    You should be able to pass wealth down through generations without being super rich, there’s only very limited ways to do this at the moment, property/land open to the public, art on display or buy a forrest if you want to look after the grandkids that don’t even exist yet.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭bored65


    More details from the kite flying coming out

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/ireland-world/article/tax-breaks-savers-stock-market-simon-harris-ireland-n5hbfxjqf

    “According to the memo, this new account will be designed to support households in getting greater returns on their savings. It is due to form a key element of the coming budget, and will be rolled out from 2027.Officials in the Department of Finance are examining the Investeringssparkonto (ISK) in Sweden, which has one of the highest rates of stock market investors in the world.In Sweden, the first €28,000 a person invests in an ISK is tax free, with a low tax on the remainder which includes profits made on investments.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭bored65


    “A spokesman for the Tánaiste said Minister Harris "believes we need to strengthen Ireland's investment culture, giving people real opportunities to make more of their hard-earned money".

    The minister aims to introduce the scheme as part of Budget 2027 so accounts will be operational next year.”

    I guess the devil will be in the details if or when they come out, but more hints being dropped today



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,206 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    From the Swedish scheme:

    It eliminates capital gains tax on individual sales, instead applying a low annual standardized tax based on the total account value, collected every quarter. 

    .

    Then there will intermediary fees, so as always when it comes to Harris, heads we win, tails you lose, but I get to look good

    A lot of us got fcuked by eircom

    https://chatgpt.com/c/69c8f949-83f0-832f-a59d-6cdbc315171b

    and then again in 2007/2008

    and as the younger generation have no mula, the 170 bn in cash belongs, in most part, to a rapidly greying cohort so good luck with this bs

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭combat14


    a flat tax every year on ordinary citizens investments be a good tax spinner for government .. 1.065% each year would be about 1.8 bn in tax each year if all 170 billion of savers money ended up in the scheme versus 500 million on 1% bank interest at 33% capital gains tax ...

    no wonder harris is keen to push this .. the government can do better than the swedish model for hard working tax payers how about the uk isa model or simply no deemed disposal and 30% tax on etfs to allow everyone invest in a safe etf



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