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Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 02/09/25*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,750 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Yes, doing what royalty did up to the 19th century is a good idea I mean that didn't cause any issues, apart from Haemophilia and Hapsburgs jaw of course.Also people continually sneer at Royalty for all being inbred.

    Changes that should and could be made to legislation like the 2 I mentioned haven't been done in order to pander to Muslims, that's how it is leading to a part erosion of secularism.

    I've now provided 2 concrete examples but you'll still continue on your conspiracy theory rubbish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    TBH you are the only one who seems to be peddling conspiracy.

    I asked you a very straight forward question, you pointed to 2 examples of practices that have been legal for forever, but you claimed they are only in the UK over the last few years.

    Hardly concrete now is it?

    So have you any supporting evidence for this so called agenda?

    Something with even a toe hold in reality?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,750 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    I've just provided 2 examples of things which should be changed (Cousin Marriage and Halal slaughter) but won't because of Muslim influence.You've had Muslims in the house of commons defending the practice of cousin marriage even though it's backward and has negative health impacts.

    I don;t care how long they might ave been allowed for it;s the fact that they should be changed buit haven't (in order to pander to muslims) which is the issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You provided 2 examples which you falsely claimed were brought in, in the last few years to pander to Muslims.

    Now you have pivoted because it was pointed out to you, your claim was false.

    So, back to the original statement and question.

    Everyone with any sense knows there is an agenda behind these Muslim prayer events

    What agenda?

    Please be specific.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,750 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    iI didn't say those 2 things were brought in i recent years. You just made that up.

    No more going round in circles, I've made my point, you've decided to focus on semantics.

    Post edited by Jack Daw on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You claimed anyone with sense would know about this secret agenda.

    I asked you simply what it is. You can't answer it.

    But that is my fault?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,303 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    In fairness, you did claim that continuous allowances are being made to Muslim beliefs and beliefs from countries that are culturally Islamic over the last few years -

    Giving two examples, neither allowance which was introduced in the last few years - the Slaughter of Animals Act was introduced in 1933, and marriage between cousins has been permitted in Protestant and Anglican Churches since the Reformation (it was part of the pushback against the Catholic Church), neither of which are particularly relevant if you’re attempting to apply the idea of secularism in the UK specifically, because the UK is not secular - there is no formal separation in law between Church and State.

    The secularism which developed in Europe over the last 60 years is more likely to be eroded by Christianity than Islam, you’d only have to look over yonder to the US (where incidentally, only 8 states prohibit marriage between cousins in their laws), to witness a secular country where religion plays a major influential role in it’s politics, and in recent times the influence of Christianity has been ramped up to 11.

    Personally, I’m still laughing at the idea that multinational corporations are removing the Easter from Easter eggs, a criticism that began in the UK a decade ago, although then there were accusations of the secular erosion of Christianity -

    https://humanists.uk/humanistlife-archive/seven-reasons-why-this-years-easter-egg-debacle-was-ridiculous/


    Conspiracy theorists are truly fcuked if they ever lay eyes on the Toblerone egg, I couldn’t contain my laughter yesterday seeing it looks suspiciously like the symbol of the Illuminati -

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,750 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Yes, allowances are being made in recent years, guides being sent out by city councils to schools about how to behave around muslims during ramadan being an example , when in reality what should be happening is nothing. Football games in the UK are now being paused to cater to Muslims who fast , this shouldn't be happening either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,303 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    That’s two more examples though, and at least a bit more recent than the previous two. I only sort of agree with you in that it shouldn’t be necessary for local councils to send out information to schools about how to behave around Muslims during Ramadan, it’s much easier to ask Muslims themselves about the whole situation. They’re not a hive mind, and it’s not all that different from Christians abstaining during Lent.

    As for the football games, that seems like a storm in a teacup tbh, there’s no shortage of examples of the relationship between religion and sports (and indeed the politics of same). I can see why you’d argue it shouldn’t be happening, but that’s not a remotely realistic prospect. Even in France where they have an extremist take on secularism, it primarily advantages Christianity over all other religions, so much so that in spite of Muslims having fought in the French Revolution, they still don’t get a look-in in terms of the means to actually influence culture or laws in the country, which is pretty much the same across Europe, in spite of your insistence that there are greater allowances being made for Islam or beliefs that are culturally Islamic in Europe.

    A bit of perspective.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Football games in the UK are now being paused to cater to Muslims who fast , this shouldn't be happening either.

    Another nothing burger, just another thing for the permanently outraged to get upset over.

    It happened last week in the Everton game, there was an injury to one of the players, Idrissa Gueye ran to the side line, took a quick drink of water and bite of an energy bar and ran back on before the injured player left the field. Literally 30 seconds.

    No break in play.

    Happens all time with players returning from injury of feeling the effects of a high tempo game.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,750 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    It's fine when they do it in the normal run of the game when there is already a stoppage occurring, it isn't ok when they decide to create a stoppage especially for it and put a big sign up on the big screen informing everyone about it.

    So no it isn't a nothing burger as it's pandering to people's religious beliefs, players should just be told you can take a drink when there is a natural stoppage in play but no special allowances will be made for you, if they don't like that then tough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,745 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Now now Stephen the refugee industry have assured us we are getting all the good ones.

    We are getting between 2-300 asylum seekers a week, so what's another 2-300 million in future liabilities?! Assuming our costs are the same as Finlands. (We know it'll be more expensive but hey ho)

    Can the Irish refugee industry please lobby European countries that produce these nasty documents to cease and desist at once, as it is getting hard to defend.

    Also kids please stick around after qualifying as I don't wanna work til 75 to pay for this once the corporation tax whittles away, I'd prefer if ye did!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    They have assigned stoppage breaks during warm weather.

    You are going out of your way to be offended.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,750 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Those stoppages are to do with sport not religion.

    You want your religious beliefs that fine , but you should suffer the consequences of them if they have a negative impact.It's a small thing but it's exactly the kind o backward step that should not be taken regarding religion whch is just a load of superstitious nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Those stoppages are to do with sport not religion.

    They are both to do with player welfare.

    Literally no one cares, apart from a very very small minority.

     backward step that should not be taken regarding religion whch is just a load of superstitious nonsense.

    Like when they sing God save The King before the cup final?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,303 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    if they don't like that then tough.

    It’s a bit more tricky than that though, because football organisations in the UK have wanted for years to appear more inclusive (notwithstanding the fact that growing their audience increases revenue), and they want to make English football an attractive profession for everyone (which just happens to include Muslims), so it stands to reason they would make allowances for Muslims who can’t wait for the half-time oranges (though in the premier league they’re more likely to have chefs on standby!).

    It’s much more a question of expanding the appeal of the organisation to new audiences, than it is a sop to Islam or beliefs informed by Islamic culture, and it appears to be working given the increasing amount of players who are Muslim, and an increasing proportion of the audience who are Muslim. At this stage the Premier League and the EFL are in a position where they can say to the naysayers that if they don’t like it - tough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,750 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Thats the national anthem no religion and it refers to god it doesn't specify which god , no problem if they remove it though.

    Hot weather cannot be controlled by the players, fasting before playing a big match can be controlled, its completely avoidable by the players as they don't have to fast they just choose to do so due to religion (which is essentially superstition)

    Point stands one is being added to pander to religious beliefs.Just accept it is will you and stop wasting everyone's time with your nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Thats the national anthem no religion and it refers to god

    One of those non religious Gods? 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,303 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    The national anthem of a country where the King is both the head of state and the head of the church, but not a specific God…


    Nope, still doesn’t make sense 😒



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭ericzeking


    So what you're kind of saying that once Muslims become a critical mass in a particular area, then their customs can be adopted and the locals are told 'tough'.

    Interesting.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,303 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    So what you're kind of saying…


    Oh come on, you know better than that 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    IMG_9153.jpeg

    The disparities in representation of some groups when it comes to certain forms of offending is very stark in similar sized western nations that DO collect ethnicity data. We are already seeing non EEA migrants receiving convictions more or less every single week for a plethora of various crimes.

    It’s hard to imagine why these patterns would differ in Ireland

    But, as above, any attempt to discuss material differences amongst our recent “arrivals” and in addition their religious beliefs will be handwaved away. We have to ignore what we’re seeing in front of us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin



    EDIT: I’ve removed an RTE article in relation to an Islamic terrorist attack in Dublin, as I’ve realised the matter is actually still before the courts

    Or literal Islamist terrorists who will burn your property down or attempt to murder Gardaí because they’ve perceived you to insult their religion

    Again, there won’t be any comment or conclusions drawn from this, will be ignored or handwaved away by those above pretending nothing’s wrong, there’s nothing to see here, everyone resume their positions and reinsert head in their sand hole please



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,750 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Yes, it is possible to believe in a God without actually having any religious belief, that type of belief is called Deism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,303 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    It’s entirely possible, but it’s not possible that the God being referred to in the British national anthem refers to any God other than the Christian God.

    There have been calls in the past to make the anthem secular, or to replace it with something else, but they haven’t amounted to anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71 ✭✭One2Many7ups


    From that research the Finish government carried out on the net financial burden of asylum seekers:

    "Research from Suomen Perusta sought to calculate the so-called “life cycle effects” on the public finances of migrants, particularly of asylum seekers and refugees born in Iraq and Somalia. It predicted that Somalis were the most expensive, with a net estimated lifetime cost of 951,000 euros (roughly $1.1 million). Iraqis cost almost 700,000 euros. When the migrants’ children were added, the figure for Somalis went up to 1.34 million euros."

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/finland-living-proof-lie-heart-100000900.html

    Each Somali asylum seeker will cost the Finnish taxpayers 951k (1.34m with kids). Read that again.

    Notice that the few sellouts paid to defend the shambles that is mass migration from the 3rd world won't touch stuff like this. They'll just hone in a tiny aspect like 'Finland is colder so it costs more to keep Somalis warm there' and then start waffling on about the temperature differences between Ireland and Finland. I hope they are well paid for making total tits of themselves daily 😝

    Meanwhile Ireland awaits its inevitable fate as a busted nation with tens of thousands of asylum seekers to carry along forever. Corporate tax 'windfalls' were used against the Irish people. Next to nothing concrete to show for it, just tens of billions added to current expenditure.

    image.png

    This is all we have to show for it:

    image.png

    Yes, yes the usual suspects will be on to show 'but but we also have a fine bike shed and a lovely disused children's hospital'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,303 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    From that research the Finish government carried out on the net financial burden of asylum seekers…


    Since when were the Finnish Government a political think-tank?

    Suomen Perusta Foundation is a Finnish political think tank. Our main focus areas are immigration/multiculturalism, European integration and economics.

    https://www.suomenperusta.fi/in-english/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,054 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    The Minister stated that the cost to process each asylum claim is €122,000.

    This does not include costs from after the claim.

    Multiply this by the 160k-170k claimants over the past three decades, and the total claim costs so far appoach €20 billion.

    That €20 billion spent on bogus asylum-seekers excludes any housing + education + health + welfare costs that occur after the claim ends.

    Bear in mind that even though most claims are correctly refused, we let them stay. Very few are ever removed.

    This all excludes the spending on UKR refugees.

    If you ever wonder why we can't have nice things like the tram lines in French cities, think about that €20 billion.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,303 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    That’s only another publication from yet another now-disbanded think-tank?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IZA_Institute_of_Labor_Economics


    Again, not the Finnish government, which is the only point in your post I was refuting. I’ve pointed out already that when the research is based upon predictions which are based upon estimates, it’s piss easy to manipulate the data to achieve the desired outcome of the organisation promoting the idea. In this case, not the Finnish government, but a private think-tank, in both examples (including the second one you provided).



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