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Renting small field to a farmer for first time

2

Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 4,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Would you consider buying a few calves yourself and getting a herd number from the Dept?

    You’d become one of us then. It’s great craic 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭malibu4u


    Two thoughts, may be nothing.

    One, insurance. If someone trips on something in the field and breaks something, who is liable.

    Secondly, squatters rights. If someone is there say ten years and you want to sell, have you a right to get them out if they do not want to go and they say they fenced it etc?

    I'd check with a solicitor if it was mine.

    Also, do not forget to pay tax on the rent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 The Herculean Wonder


    Thank you. Excellent points.

    Re insurance: If I'm renting it then insurance is his gig, I believe, not mine I think. If I leave him in for nothing then it'd be on me so it's another good reason for formalising the deal. I imaine that would be the case, anyway.

    My solicitor did advise, when buying the property, that if I decide to go down this road with the farmer that I should include a renuciation clause (so no squatters rights issues may ever arise), a break clause and a rent review/inflation-linked increase element in the contract. Good advise surely.

    Thank you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 The Herculean Wonder


    I have thought about it but honestly don't think I'd have the required dedication. The work is huge and I have other facets to my life that would prevent being able to give it everything I'd need to. I may get a couple of donkeys though - I've a bit more land out front that would be enough for them.

    I've no doubt that it is great craic - but I'm shite at parties so wouldn't want to risk not being able to give 100% to the beautiful beasts!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭malibu4u


    Insurance can be a tricky one. If it's up to the tenant, make sure he renews each year, or have your own too.

    With solicitors fees, be careful or you could end up getting charged a year or twos rent just for solicitors fees.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭blackbox


    I believe that as long as he is paying you rent he cannot claim squatters rights.

    Issue receipts and keep records, declare for tax.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    sounds like the 15 sheep man is only hobby farming himself and depends on your field, a little inteprize like that is only good for keeping himself and maybe his kids interested in a bit of farming and no real money making excersize he be like myself he can wander down to local Friday evening and talk to a few farmers that might be there about the price of sheep or maybe this time of year that he is killed out lambing. If you are new to area it's it important to get off to a good start and have good naibours , you never know when you might need a help out yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭Field east


    (1) consider following approach re annual rent amount. Inform him that in your opinion the going rate per acre s , say , €250 per acre so the €62 is a ‘bit wide of the mark’. So could he make an offer to ‘improve’ on that figure. Remember the 62 figure was ‘fives’ X years ago and inflation and all of that has happened since.

    (2) you do’nt know how much the renter may have ‘helped’ the previous house owner in return for a very low rent eg provided wood, cleaned his chimney, collected children from school , provided a bit of child minding , provided and erected the mentioned fencing, etc.

    (3) nothing on the land is his , including the fencing, unless it is mentioned in the documentation someplace. Or if it was verbally mentioned during the sales process.

    (4) be wary of ‘the sob story/ pulling at your emotional strings’ in order to get you to agree to a low rent.

    (5) when insuring your property I assume that you would be including the 4 acres andthe RENTING of it. That then covers you in the case of any accident.

    (6) If you sign a 5 year least - special forms for this are available- the rent is tax free . I am not sure if one has to rent out a minimum acreage to avail of this. The lease wording covers all eventualities. This 5 year least suggestion could be ‘floated to the renter as a carrot as whatever rent is agreed it will be the rent for the next 5 yrs. A 7 year lease is also allowed re the tax free rent

    (7) keeping good relations is highly desirable but avoid being taken advantage of . There will be other opportunities to work on such relationships besides renting land cheaply.

    (8) re the value of the land - if the locality is ‘populated’ with a number of smallish/ medium size farms the 4 acres could be easily managed by taking two to three cuts silage off it, so no cattle or sheep involved. Or take a cut of hay and graze after grass with cattle. So it could be quiet attractive to such farmers.is

    In summary, use the no 1 approach while injecting no 6 as a ‘carrot. ‘ -making sure to mention that the old rate was ‘Zfixed ‘ YEARS ago



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 915 ✭✭✭mengele


    4 acres is realistically a bit of a garden and a nuisance to most farmers. I think you are lucky to get any offer at all to have it maintained for you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,209 ✭✭✭White Clover


    Op, most of this post above is Rubbish apart from point 3.

    4 acres rent for you or the use of 4 acres for the man that had it rented is not going to make either of you wealthy.

    Ask him for 400 per year. Both of you will have something out of it then. Asking him 1000 for it won't pay him to have it and you could end up with some trouble maker.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,916 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    How about, half a lamb for the freezer every year?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭Field east


    now you are talking as we might say in Ireland



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭Field east


    none of the contributors here have suggested asking him for €1000/annum for starters and I will leave it at that - at least for the moment!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 The Herculean Wonder


    Thank you for the above. I had thought the same re fencing, gates etc. Makes sense. I bought the land with everything in place and was not notified that any other case was, well, the case.

    Rest of your points: Agree with most of it. Sensible enough. Though I hadn't included the land in my insurance - only have standard house insurance. Though I think the farmer should have his own insurance for his own reasons. My land won't eat his sheep, like!

    Point 7 is valid too so I'm not looking to take the proverbial - simply find a fair rent. Mentioned €100 per acre before and have yet to have anyone change my mind on that. Seems fair enough to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 The Herculean Wonder


    I'd rather get paid the rent and just buy the cuts down in the butcher if I'm honest!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 The Herculean Wonder


    Asking for €1,000 was never on the table. €400 does seem fair to me and no one here has said that it sounds particularly unfair.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 The Herculean Wonder


    Ok, Thank you all for the info and thoughts. I'm pretty happy with €400 per annum. I'll put it to him this evening and report back on the results when it has played out! Thanks again one and all!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 266 ✭✭rayman10




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 578 ✭✭✭anthony500_1


    Just on your insurance. It won't cost much to get public liability on 4ac. Any man woman or child can claim they fell on your land even without your permission to be there and try make a claim. It would be no harm for your own peace of mind to look into it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 The Herculean Wonder


    Right - I absolutely will look into that then, thank you. Do all farmers take something like this out on their land then?

    My land can only be accessed through my own driveway and garden though. The farmer renting it only has rear access due to his brother owning the adjoining farm. It's not otherwise accessible.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 578 ✭✭✭anthony500_1


    Most farmers would I'd imagine as if you have anyone in doing work etc it would cover them also in the event something was to happen to them. Its basically cover your own arse insurance in the event something happens.

    And if your field has a wall that someone can climb over or a ditch they can come through, then mark my words one day you will find a neighbor in the middle of the place "just out for a walk" that has no business being there other then just having a look around for themselfs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭Field east


    I would still have the land captured in your house insurance and stating that it is rented. If someone is just walking across it, slips , falls off the gate getting into it or whatever they might sue all around, eg the owner ;, the renter,; the slurry spreader; , the hay baler ;, the silage contractor,, the neighbour to advise them where to get holly,/take a short cut, the fertiliser spreader or whoever. There are such individuals out there.
    So , check with your solicitor anyway



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭bcklschaps


    How did you get on with the 15 sheep man?

    I'm guessing he said €300 or keep it yourself.

    He knows he has you over a barrel. He probably mentioned the problem for anyone else accessing it ( ie. They would have to use your drive way)

    My opinion is that you are lucky enough to have a tennant who can access it from the adjoining land, it really would be nuisance have tractors and what not driving in through your drive way.

    At €250 he is making a killing obviously as either he or his brother is probably including your field on their grant application and making maybe €100 / acre.

    But €250 a year hassle free to you is better than nothing or indeed €500 a year from some other lad that might have your head wrecked driving in and out of your drive way every other day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    try and find out if it’s always been €250, if it has then go with that.

    You could ask more but really is few hundred worth it. Having a farmer friendly when you’re new to the area is a very handy thing. Move something with a tractor or level stone with transport box.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,142 ✭✭✭9935452


    I dont like how quick he came out with land has no entitlements so is only wortb 250. Trying to put you over a barrell.

    I could also be wrong but fencing that goes into land stays with the land.

    The father had 5 or 6 cottage plots where the only access was through a persons drive.

    Never an issue. All were neighbours so when cattle goes in , they would keep an eye on the cattle..

    A other neighbour took on a lot of ground at one stage for silage.

    Some were in peoples drives. 3 cuts of silage taken out each year.

    Silage wagons where had good access. Bales where access poor



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭have2flushtwice


    How do you know if a renter has land on their grant application?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭bcklschaps


    You could just ask the renter?

    Or if you want to check independently you could ask an agricultural adviser from your area who specialises in grant applications to check for you (there's lists of advisers on the Dept of Agricultural website) also you could directly contact the Dept of Agricultural grants section.

    Farming margins are razor thin soo expect any farmer that is renting land off you to be maxing out any and every grant/benefit he can from it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 181 ✭✭howsshenow


    This is the most sensible answer. If the poster is new to the Countryside he needs to understand the unwritten rules. Good neighbor relations are priceless even if you are being taken advantage of marginally.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 The Herculean Wonder


    Well, I went back to him with €100 per acre (€400 per annum total) and he accepted in a flash. Happy as a pig in ****, he was. So there was probably some upside left on the table. But I'm happy and he's happy so all is well. It'll be a 5 year term as per the norm.

    Thank you all for your input - it was very helpful. He has the sheep lambing now so I'll be getting some new neighbours in a couple of days!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30 The Herculean Wonder


    He said yes to €400 very quickly (as per my above post). He never had me over a barrel at all! And I never had him over one either! He put in his suggestion and I went back to him with my offer - done and dusted. Two happy people and, soon, a field full of very happy little lambs! :)



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