Tesla Talk 2

listermint · 06-03-2026 12:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290081#Comment_124290081

No. You're saying anto sounds credible based on a singular AI assisted formatting post.

Id also urge you to stop asking for my private information or il have to report you. If you want a chat via DM please do . But you have absolutely zero right to ask me for personal information on a thread

I mean get fckn real fella. The absolute neck . Also I've no concerns on you or anyone taking me seriously. You don't at all because you love your car and want free reign to drive it on public roads whilst twiddling your thumbs. Complete disregard for other road users

MojoMaker · 06-03-2026 12:18PM

Like I said.

MJohnston · 06-03-2026 12:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290096#Comment_124290096

If you're going to tout your professional qualifications, you can't really complain when people want proof of such. It's very easy for people to just say things on the internet. Very understandable that people would want that backed up.

listermint · 06-03-2026 12:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290106#Comment_124290106

I'm here years I've explained what industry I worked in before your Tesla was a twinkle on your driveway.

Don't be so disingenuous.

Its almost infantile how 1 poster who's 'holding his tongue' randomly comes on throws some AI generate content and he's taken as credible.

This is a reflection on yourself more than me .

evftw · 06-03-2026 12:23PM

The proof of pudding is eating and I have taken my cake seriously and purchased the FSD option. I took the car out for a spin early this morning using the best there is available in the Model Y at this time, and as usual the car wanted to kill me by driving off one of the N4 ramps at 82 km/h indicated. It also consistently failed to change lanes when indicating and drove over the stop line at Kilmainham lights before stopping just at the pedestrian crossing. Later on it also did right mess trying to park at my office in a space near two support columns of the carpark.

v11 sucks but now I'm in the pole position to hopefully receive the v14.2.25 soon. According to the sources the RDW approval process for FSD in EU got a nod on the 4th this month.

evftw · 06-03-2026 12:26PM

And yes, none of the above came as a surprise. As as I have state before the current Autosteer implementation is at the worst downright dangerous and at the best just about acceptable.

listermint · 06-03-2026 12:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290118#Comment_124290118

How much did that set you back ? (I've no idea on cost structure)

MojoMaker · 06-03-2026 12:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290111#Comment_124290111

That's what it sounds like, sorry.

MJohnston · 06-03-2026 12:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290111#Comment_124290111

This is what I'm talking about you being obsessed - I've never owned a Tesla, never would even vaguely consider buying one, think Musk is a despicable human being, think the brand is trashy and falling apart.

But I also think you're so obsessive with being unproductively abusive towards this thread, and the fact that you'd assume I was a Tesla owner says everything about how you need to really step back and just breath a bit before you find yourself posting here.

Your posts seem so purely angry and/or defensive, and I can promise you from experience, it's not healthy. There's other things out there!

liamog · 06-03-2026 12:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124288995#Comment_124288995

The key question for me isn't whether the FSD crash rate is 50% higher than Waymo's, it's how that crash rate compares to current car usage.

From a quick internet search Waymo data estimated over 44 million miles logged human drivers would get into 190 injury causing accidents, vs the 36 that Waymo experienced.

If we extrapolate that number using the FSD is 50% higher than Waymo, then a crash rate of 54 over the same usage still gives a substantial reduction in the number of crashes. I think a technology that reduces injury causing crashes by 72% is valuable and should not be so off handedly dismissed.

According to a US Front seat belts reduce the risk of driver fatality by 73% and are mandated, and yet your arguing that another technology that reduces crashes by 72% shouldn't even be allowed to operate on public roads.

evftw · 06-03-2026 12:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290127#Comment_124290127

It's 3800 for the enhanced AP, while the FSD is 7500 or some figure between those two to upgrade from EAP to FSD. In the future the subscription in EU is expected to be 99 a month.

If you buy when ordering the cost depends on how much VRT you need to pay so between free and 12k depending if you transfer it from another car, or at the other extreme when the upgrade would take your car beyond 60k and you lose the grant.

tldr: At the moment on the 6th March it's total waste of money but it may become somewhat of very useful in the future.

listermint · 06-03-2026 12:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290172#Comment_124290172

liam

Fair question, all the recent data shows that Tesla FSD is more dangerous and more accident prone than human drivers.

There are tons of articles with stats from Feb to now with the latest numbers.

Here's the first that came up.

https://share.google/tZ68hUurG3OeKxQy3

http://Tesla Robotaxis are Much Worse than Human Drivers as Tesla Hides Details From Public - Men's Journal https://share.google/tZ68hUurG3OeKxQy3

listermint · 06-03-2026 01:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290136#Comment_124290136

Self driving and everything related to it is something I'm interested in.

I mean it's an interest not an abuse. You can't be telling people what to be interested in and what not TBF. Let's be honest that's not a fair call out.

MJohnston · 06-03-2026 01:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290223#Comment_124290223

What I'm calling out is the fact that while there are interesting discussions to be had about self-driving and the various technologies, the way you (and others too!) go about it in this thread is completely unconstructive, and usually just leads to page after page of embarrassing personal barbs flying back and forth between you and various others here.

I want to read genuine discussions, and I think people like you are preventing that from happening. Seriously, go read back over various older pages here and think about how ineffectual and childish most of the "debate" has been.

listermint · 06-03-2026 01:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290230#Comment_124290230

That's a fair shout. And il try to back off.

No arguments from me on your view point

evftw · 06-03-2026 01:43PM

I have been unreasonable at times. Sorry for that. I'll be more civil from now on.

liamog · 06-03-2026 01:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290207#Comment_124290207

If the FSD accident rate is 50% higher than Waymo's and Waymo's injury causing accident rate is 81% lower than human drivers how does that stack up?

The new article you've posted claims the accident rate for robotaxi is 9x humans, they'd need to show 45x the Waymo rate for the numbers to add up.

To be fair, I took the 50% higher number from your post, so it could be the case that you miss typed.

MojoMaker · 06-03-2026 01:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290118#Comment_124290118

Well done. Subscribing to this now - your updates will be very interesting.

liamog · 06-03-2026 01:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290325#Comment_124290325

I suspect the difference is comparing Robotaxi incident rates vs FSD incident rate's. The form of FSD that is likely to be approved by RDW is still a human supervised system with evidence pointing to substantial reductions in incidents. We're still a long way from Robotaxi's being used on the streets of Galway.

cunnifferous · 06-03-2026 02:26PM

Let's face it Tesla is an outlandish company that has a history of making outlandish claims (a certain amount of which have been delivered, others not).

I think the nature of the discussion in here reflects that. I haven't seen any posts actioned for personal abuse etc

listermint · 06-03-2026 02:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290325#Comment_124290325

I never said 50 percent anywhere. I said Tesla was over x4 times waymo accident rate.

I didn't compare Waymo to humans. I gave that article as you wanted to compare fsd to humans. Hence I grabbed a linked article. Fsd is currently worse than humans. Stats from the last 2 quarters. So it's as unsafe as expected.

unkel · 06-03-2026 02:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290451#Comment_124290451

We have clarified many times that we are discussing FSD supervised (so still human responsible) when we are talking about the RDW decision to allow it in the EU and when we are talking about current safety stats

Yet you keep referring to self driving L4 Waymo and L4 Tesla robotaxis? The former are quite established (7 years?) but the latter are only at the very start (a few weeks?) of their experimental / trial phase and are a tiny numbers of vehicles

listermint · 06-03-2026 02:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290464#Comment_124290464

' Robotaxi' tech with assisted drivers has been driving for a year is my understanding of the space for nearly a year

I believe they kicked this off in Austin last June. And potentially other non advertised or sanctioned areas prior to that.

So no I don't think it's a miscomparison.

liamog · 06-03-2026 02:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290451#Comment_124290451

Fair enough, 4x Waymo's accident rate is still lower than the human driving rate, though this equates to only a 20% reduction compared to human driving.

How can something be both a 20% reduction, and 9 4 times more likely? Do you think you might be conflating two different systems?

The articles you linked are from the Robotaxi trial, which is notably not what's going through the approval process by RDW.

listermint · 06-03-2026 02:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290495#Comment_124290495

The article doesn't show this.

It shows that Tesla has a 9 times worse rate than an equivalent human.

The previous conversation shows that Tesla is x4 times worse than Waymo . So effectively they are both worse than humans but Tesla is far worse.

Unsafe with or without supervised driver assisting the taxi .

liamog · 06-03-2026 03:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290559#Comment_124290559

Waymo's numbers claim that there vehicles are 81% less likely to get into a injury causing incident than human drivers, and publish a lot of detail to back up their claim.

https://waymo.com/safety/impact/

Tesla can't be 4x more like to have an incident compared to Waymo, and 9x more likely than a human driver based on Waymo's published information.

Given the transparency of Waymo, I have a lot more confidence in the numbers they publish.

That leads us to something in the articles you've shared is clearly off as the numbers just don't add up.

listermint · 06-03-2026 03:08PM

I want to be clear, it would be a superb scenario if this technology did what it says on the tin. And it was truly safe. Because it could bleed into everyones car.

But it's not safe, it's hardware limited. It won't be backwards compatible in any serious way. I'm sure the ultimate goal will be a self driving vehicle to take on Uber but that's not for other Tesla's and it may even involve a splinter company being opened and they'll revisit the camera only conversation.

But I don't see this having folks here or me driving around playing playstation games in our own vehicles with eyes off the road . With cameras and an in vehicle LLM processing What's out in front. It's just not a serious proposal outside of limited driver aid assistance in limited places and limited road and environment conditions.

That's where I'm at.

listermint · 06-03-2026 03:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290591#Comment_124290591

Id have to look up waymos numbers versus humans. As I said before I haven't looked at them but will have a gander over them later.

liamog · 06-03-2026 03:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290598#Comment_124290598

If only Tesla were as transparent with their data. I think publishing a high level of publicly accessible data should be part of any approval. Hiding behind "commercially sensitive" is not good enough.

listermint · 06-03-2026 03:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124290661#Comment_124290661

Agreed that should form part of any regulation to get licensing to operate.

Tesla Talk 2

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