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US/Israel conduct airstrikes on Iran again

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Comments

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 13,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    UK Defense Secretary:

    Two missiles were launched toward Cyprus, where thousands of British troops are stationed.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/iran-missiles-cyprus-defence-secretary-b2929655.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,530 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Make no mistake, both Israel and America have their puppet lined up and ready to go if and when the time comes and none of this has anything to do with bettering the Iranian people's lot. It's purely about power.

    People would do well to remember what happened the last time America (along with Britain) interfered with Iran in the 50's based purely on their oil interests. And that was with a relatively benign US administration under Eisenhower. With the current bunch of psychos in the White House and that sick, murdering, bastard in Tel Aviv any number of bad futures await the people of Iran, because neither the US or Israel are interested in them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,667 ✭✭✭amacca


    You are correct ...one ideology would just be replaced by another. Nature abhors a vacuum......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭rogber


    I know a small number of actual Iranians and they are euphoric that the Ayatollah and so many other top people were killed.

    They were less euphoric that Israel and USA were the ones behind it.

    But they wanted this regime gone, and would accept whoever it was that did the job.

    Time will tell what follows and whether it's better or worse



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Benedict XVI


    American presidents have struggled with Iran since 1979.

    They have been a thorn in the side of America since then.

    The resent protests and the struggling economy in Iran probably lead Trump (or his staff) to believe that now would be a good time to strike because Iran is as weak as it has been for decades.

    Cut the head of the snake (as happened) and let the locals do the rest.

    You take the credit for toppling the regime and you keep the America First base happy by not putting boots on the ground like in Afghanistan or Iraq.

    A we all know how much Trump loves taking credit.

    The swift removal of Maduro a few weeks ago probably boosted Trump's confidence in doing to things like this also.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,781 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Honestly I can’t see it being better- the “official” line up of so called religious cleric slugs and pricks weren’t any better - I don’t see Iran becoming a shining democracy any time soon. And I also don’t believe Trump gives a sh1t what happens the Iranian people and who governs them.
    It’s not even clear why Trump went this route but for me, mid-term elections around the corner are in pole position as the key reason. That and Trumps ego - he’s starved of “success”- his so called tarrifs initiative are in the bin- he needs something big to shout about.
    But wouldn’t it be lovely come Monday morning when the press keep asking about Epstein 🤪



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭Benedict XVI


    You should listen to Season 5 of the podcast "Empire: World History", which deals with the Persian empire.

    Iranians were as much behind the events you are talking about as were the Americans and British.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,530 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    The Iranians I know absolutely do not want the US or Israel calling the shots in their country irrespective of how they feel about the religious leadership currently in play. They know from their parents and grandparents that it will more than likely lead down a bad path.

    America's interest in Iran is primarily down to oil and Israel's interest is in power. They don't give a damn about actual Iranians. If the Ayatollah's were more agreeable to their interests, both the US and Israel would be propping them up.

    What we have here are two of the worst aggressor nations of the past 60+ years involved in shaping the future of another nation and we've seen numerous times that those aggressor nations will put their own interests ahead (way ahead) of the people that they are claiming to be helping with their aggression.

    We've seen before what happened in Iran when the US toppled Mossadegh and installed the Shah, who was a murderous bastard, and his tyranny directly led to the Islamic Revolution and the situation we have today. And Israel are only interested in their greater Israel project which means annexation of land that doesn't belong to them and holding hegemony over the region. Something that Iran was a bulwark against.

    Neither of those nations are not out for the good of Iran.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,788 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The replacements for Khameini are even worse than he was, he was a moderate in relative terms.

    And now he's been made a martyr, most of the population are galvanised behind the regime. A blunder imo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,323 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    It's far too early to make definitive factual statements about that school. But you seem to believe it regardless. If so, why don't you believe reports that the Iranian regime murdered up to 36,000 protestors?



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Neither of those nations are not out for the good of Iran.

    Nor was the Ayatollah or any of his regime.

     most of the population are galvanised behind the regime

    That the population were continuing protesting after the regime murdered 30-50k of them suggests this is incredibly unlikely to be true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,530 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Yeah, until the Shah's SAVAK death squads started going around killing people en mass.

    The vast majority of Iranians were happy with Mossadegh in government and his pro Democracy movement. It was the US and Britain that weren't and that was down to him nationalising Iranian oil. It's outside interference in Iranian affairs that has the nation where it is today and nobody has any reason to think that an administration led by Trump and his string pullers or a criminal like Netanyahu have any good will towards either Iran or its people, regardless of who is in charge.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,323 ✭✭✭✭markodaly




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭Perfidious Cretin


    With Maduro gone and now Iran pretty much done I wonder will North Korea be next in line for the yanks. They were already taking about taking over Cuba. Once the small fish are taken care of they can focus on Russia and China.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,530 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Nor was the Ayatollah or any of his regime.

    That's not an excuse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,323 ✭✭✭✭markodaly




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It is not about excuses.

    No one thinks that the US or Israel cares one iota about the people of Iran. That doesn't mean that in the real world this is not potentially a net positive outcome for both them and everyone else. We just don't know yet. They certainly have an opportunity for a better outcome, though it remains to be seen what actually happens. It is definitely a better outcome for people across the Middle East that Iran has been terrorising and people in Ukraine who go to sleep every night not knowing if they'll wake up because of Iranian drones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,323 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Is there anything in that sentence that is wrong?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,323 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    You seem terribly upset that one of the world's most vicious and terrible dictators of the last 40 years has been killed. Tell me, did you say anything much about the 36,000 civilians he ordered murdered during the protests earlier this year? If not, then I dont think you have much of a moral stance on this one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,530 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    We just don't know yet.

    No, YOU don't know.

    What we do know, however, that historically US interference in other countries has been pretty much disastrous more often that not (especially in the Middle East) and Israel is a rapacious, murderous, state that is willing to engage in wanton atrocity, up to an including genocidal warfare, to achieve its aims.

    There is absolutely no reason for anyone to think that these are the people that broker "net positive outcomes", regardless of how far you stick your head in the sand.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,323 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Most?

    Not at all.

    Estimates are that approx 20% of the population supports the regime, because they directly benefit from it. Jobs, contacts, money, corruption, status etc…

    The regime itself is widely despised by the rest of the population. Lots of evidence of this. The state will organise a demonstration of support and air it on TV in order to portray the illusion of legitimacy. The truth is that if a full and free fair election were held, they would be booted out of power.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,438 ✭✭✭brickster69


    US advising ships not to navigate the Gulf. One tanker has been evacuated this morning after being hit, doubtful any insurers will be risking it either.

    Hapag Lloyd and CMA CGM Shipping Company announce full suspension of container ships just now until further notice.

    The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. — Antonio Gramsci



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 13,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    I wonder how all of this might impact on sectarian tensions within Islam?

    The Ayatollah was a spiritual leader for Shia muslims across the world, with the Sunni Gulf states now seen as working in cooperation with the US.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 311 ✭✭Derkaiser93


    This post could easily be about saddam in 2003 and many other of the dictators disposed of by the US in recent decades. All of which followed with civil wars , more chaos and death and in some cases the rise of an even worse entity like ISIS and the taliban etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,323 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Stating the obvious that one cannot predict the future, therefore we must accept a murderous regime that supports terrorists across the region and murders their own people, isnt valid IMO.

    Of course its easy for you to state this since you live in a safe leafy suburb in Ireland.
    Amazing to me that folks in Ireland, from the comfort of their own home, under an American security blanket that they don't pay towards has the audacity to state what is or is not good for your average Iranian.

    If you lived in Iran, you would be singing a different tune.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    We also know that Iran is responsible for about half a million deaths in Syria, terrorist activity all across the Middle East and thousands of deaths in Ukraine and causing millions to live in constant terror. Not to mention the rampant slaughter of tens of thousands of their own people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Rawr


    It’s optimistic at best to recon that Iran are done yet. Decapitation of the leadership is a tactic that can work if it is followed up with enough co-ordinated action, but we’re yet to see if Donnie had let people even consider that bit before Bibi gave him is marching orders. The current Iranian system has gone through several changes of leadership over the years and would need a proper revolution or invasion to end it. Bombing the Ayatolla isn’t enough in isolation to end the current regime. This may take a while if it happens at all.

    North Korea would be a very different kettle of fish. Taking out Kimmy-boy would likely implode what counts as a «leadership» system in that place. However they’ve been paranoid about exactly this idea since the Korean War (South Korea even once made their own «Suicide Squad» style group made of convicts who would be sent North to kill Kim Il Sung…it didn’t go very well)

    Even if they could kill Kim, the whole system backing him up would still keep going and really would need a co-ordinated Rebellion or some very clever installation of people into Pyongyang to get North Korea to open up to idea of actual democracy.

    In both cases I really doubt that Donnie or his people have the cop-on or follow though to pull off anything like this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,530 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I'm not interested in your whataboutery or your excuse making.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭omega man


    Fair play to the Channel 4 reporter in tel aviv asking the foreign ministry rep how they can have any moral high ground when their own leader is a wanted war criminal. Not answered and was shut down not surprisingly. Need more of this.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,323 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Iranian regime has attacked more Arab countries in the past 24 hours, than Israel has over the past 60 years.



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