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General British politics discussion thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,348 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Reform apparently complaining of "family voting" in by election.

    Suggests they're not confident of a win. Wonder where Farage learned that trick.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    Election monitoring group that has permission to monitor election expressing concerns about a practice called "Family Voting". This practice was banned in 2023. Family voting is an illegal practice where two voters either confer, collude or direct each other on voting and can involve husbands telling their wives how to vote. Democracy Volunteers (the election monitors) say the rate of FV is 12%.

    Labour and Reform UK expressing concern.

    But a spokesman for the acting returning officer at the by-election slapped down the "extremely disappointing" claims. "Polling station staff are trained to look out for any evidence of undue influence on voters. No such issues have been reported today," they said.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    Edit: the Greens Hannah Spencer, a plumber, elected as MP for Gorton. Greens got over 14000 votes, Labour around 9400, Reform UK came second on around 10400.

    Polls before the election had shown that of mayor Andy Burnham had been allowed run, he might have held the seat though it would still have been close.

    Labour also complaining about "family voting'. Dan Hodges of the Daily Mail though expressing scepticism of the Family Voting claims on Sky.

    Sky saying Labour think they have lost. They think young Muslim voters have switched "en mass" to the Greens. Labour Party Chair says "family voting issue is really concerning". Also some in Labour blaming Shabana Mahmud's (the Home Secretary's) tough immigration language.

    Sky reporting that in the Labour vs Green areas, the Greens are significantly ahead. In the Labour vs Reform areas, Reform is ahead but significantly the Greens are also doing well.

    Update: Sky reporting that 47.62% of the electorate turned out at the byelection. Thats close to the 2024 and 2019 election turnouts.

    The area where Reform are likely to do better is in the east of the constituency where there are a lot of over 65's.

    Sky News now showing a national poll trend:

    Reform 24%
    Labour 18%
    Tories 18%
    Greens 17%
    Lib Dems 14%.

    Among 18-24 year olds the numbers are:
    Greens 46%
    Lib Dems 17%
    Labour 17%
    Tories 7%
    Reform UK 6%.

    Post edited by Ozymandius2011 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,285 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Fantastic news



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,348 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    It wasn't event close really.

    image.png

    Obviously we'll never know how Andy Burnham might have done but he could be feeling pretty happy this morning that he was barred from running.

    All the headings on the BBC live tracker for the election are saying how bad it is for Labour and Starmer, but it's bad for all non Green Parties. Reform only beat Labour by little over 1k but lost to the Greens still by nearly 5k. That would have been unthinkable 12 months ago. Obviously it is bad for Labour given it was seen as a safe seat previously. But the Tories and the Lib Dem's also significantly lost from the most recent election, even though they were never a contender in either.

    Post edited by Tell me how on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,483 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Stamer's gone after the locals now, surely. Not before, there isn't enough time to turn the ship; and letting the blame for a terrible set of locals land on him will avoid it hitting the new leader.

    Going to be a lot of areas finding out if the Greens have learned how to run a local authority properly yet. They ran Brighton in to the ground.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 8,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭circadian


    Brighton was better the last time I visited compared to a few years ago....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,359 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    That probably goes on in Ireland

    Whole families marched down to the polling station to vote FG or FF or whoever



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,483 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Because its gone back to its natural state (Labour)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,916 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Glad it was Green not Farage. Sadly, Starmer swung to the right. The two child cap, not removing it, was as bad as FG introducing tax on childrens shoes here. Labour now starts picking a new direction and then a new leader, to be put in place after the local elections. Next GE may give a coalition of LB, LD, Green. UK has now five viable national parties instead of two.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I do it all the time because I have have limited storage on my server. I do not use SMS much, and delete unimportant messages.

    Anyway, I am not important in any way - so it will not matter..



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 8,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭circadian


    And the Greens never had control of the Council, so….. my point is that the degeneration and subsequent bounce in somewhere like Brighton is more likely a result of national policy rather than local council. The entire country got worse under a long running Tory government and has seen a little recovery since. I don't see what the Green party has to do with any of that, they never held control at either national or local level in Brighton.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    The win I was hoping for but would have been better if Reform had been third.

    No obvious alternative to Starmer in Parliament will probably see him hang on for now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,483 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The 2019-2023 Labour/Green latterly Green/Labour council isn't the one that ruined the place

    Its the 2011-2015 Green one that did.

    And no, that was not just due to the general malaise of the time as the place massively improved once the students union were put out of office, despite the UK being broke and tearing itself apart.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 8,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭circadian


    So, a council that the Greens had no overall control because the other large party was the Tories. I don't know how you're drawing a conclusion that the Greens are directly responsible for the malaise (and I'm not 100% of the issues you're referring to either) despite the fact that the Tories held a smaller, but not insignificant amount of seats, therefore having the ability to prevent any kind of forward momentum.

    Feels like you're on for Green bashing yet don't really provide any evidence of poor council leadership.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,483 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The Greens ran the council admin, holding all the cabinet seats.

    This is like trying to claim that the FG/Ind government here 2016-2020 were not responsible for their actions because SF existed - nonsense basically.

    Post edited by L1011 on


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 8,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭circadian


    And were still a minority leadership. Everything still had to go through the processes where both Labour and the Tories could and did vote down their proposals. So, rather than blaming the Greens for a wayward slide in Brighton, maybe look at the Tories and Labour behaving in a self serving way.

    For example;
    https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2011/03/03/brighton-and-hove-council-tax-cut-outvoted
    "a Green motion to save £26,000 by removing all catering including drinks at all council meetings was defeated by Labour and the Tories."

    Labour and Tories voting down budget proposals, Labour coming on board once their changes were accepted, same a year later.
    https://democracy.brighton-hove.gov.uk/documents/g3266/Printed%20minutes%2023rd-Feb-2012%2016.30%20Council.pdf?T=1


    I'm sure if I kept digging I'd find more, but these are the pitfalls of forming a minority government, and I don't think you can level the shortcomings of a single Green minority council during a period of austerity against a Green party under new leadership, showing clear momentum.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 8,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭circadian


    Completely different scenarions, where FG had confidence and supply from FF. Sinn Fein could not block proposals on their own as they didn't have enough seats and FF didn't break their agreement. Greens controlled the Brighton cabinet, but not the chamber.

    A disingenuous comparison.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,483 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    "I don't think you can level the shortcomings of a single Green minority council during a period of austerity against a Green party under new leadership, showing clear momentum."

    That's why I said we'll have to see if they've learned. Because this is effectively their CV to date.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    This is like trying to claim that the FF/Ind government here 2016-2020 were not responsible for their actions because SF existed - nonsense basically.

    We had a FF/Ind government in Ireland 2016-20 ?

    That's news to me.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,483 ✭✭✭✭L1011




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,058 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Greens not exactly doing a stellar job in Bristol either…

    The Parliamentary Greens have always been bad though. From their anti-train nonsense to the current leader who is suggesting the UK enter a military alliance with Brazil for some godforsaken reason.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,285 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Irrespective of how the Greens performed over a decade ago in a small council, I am looking forward to the Greens challenging Labour as Labour chase the Reform vote.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,626 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Most interesting aspect for me is that much of the former Labour vote clearly went to the Greens and in large numbers. Starmer has made an absolutely disastrous error in taking the party to the right and being pro-Israel etc : a space already occupied by Reform UK, the Tories and this new Restore Britain crowd.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,058 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Starmer's problem is that he appears to have zero political instincts, but he has not made the party "pro-Israel". If he had they would not have recognised Palestinian statehood.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,626 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The 'we favour a two state solution' and 'we recognise Palestinian statehood' thing appears to be completely meaningless in the context of the chances of a Palestinian state being formed are around 0.0000001% right now (and something that Starmer is well aware of).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,285 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    They got it from a group I never heard of 'Democracy Volunteers'. Essentially this group sends local volunteers to polling stations and they observe what goes on. They note it down and feck off to the next polling station. I was not even aware that this kind of 'observing' goes on from members of the public. Manchester council have stated that the group did not contact them about any alleged family voting.

    If you really wanted to crackdown on family voting then you will only allow one person into a voting booth at a time and do away with postal votes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭Randycove


    just as Reform have become the populist party for the disaffected right, the Hreens have become the populist party for the disaffected left/anti establishment types. Coupled with the traditional loony green policies, let’s hope they never get anywhere near actually running a country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Bristol was becoming increasingly dysfunctional even before the Greens became the largest party. Lot of the blame has to land with Marvin Rees who'se antics caused the post of Bristol Mayor to be abolished.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,626 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The two main British political parties seem to be a fair spot of bother going forward; on a combined total of around 35% in current opinion polls. Might be nigh on impossible for Labour or the Tories to form a majority government again.



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